Angry

jean19540_0 · Post by **jean19540_0** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:26 am

hello you all, STILL out there, each time i look in it gets more intersting, so just thought i'd pop back to have another friendly chat about, healthcare.
on monday i had to go & see my spinal consultant, at our local hospital. i was also having problems with my mask, being, a very bloody nose, it was also effecting the area on my cheeks, just under my eyes. people told me to loosen the straps on the headgear, when i did this i got leaks, i just could'nt get it right. so already having an appointment down the same hospital, i rang the lung function lab, who deals with cpap's, to see if it was ok if i just popped in to let them see for theirselves. that was no problem. the technition looked at me putting the mask on & said he thought he would change the inner mask size, this he did,and it is now wonderfull, a brilliant fitting face mask & now my sores are healing, with the aid of some duoderm he gave me (i'd used something simalar but not as good).
at my consultation with my spinal surgen, he told me that he needed to do an mri scan, to see whats the state of play now. i've already had 5 major spinal op's 3 of them being fusions in the lumber region. and i know from past mri scans that i also have degeneration of the disks in the neck area, but it is my thoratic region their looking at now. but if the scan confirms their suspitions, they can do nothing surgically to help & ease the pain, why because my health is such that they consider the surgery to risky.
the point i'm trying to get across here is that, i did not have to pay for my new inner mask, nore the consultations i had, nore am i going to have to pay for the mri scan, which will be done in approx 6 weeks. it is great to be able to just pop into the lung function lab, if i'm having problems like that, at no cost to me directly.
another point being, yes we do pay for the nhs in our national insurance contributions, deduted as you pay your tax..
we as a family pay into this big kitty, each & every working person pays into the kitty, and the lions share is from the government.
yes some can't pay in, the sick, the disabled, the homeless who are of cause jobless and unable to contribute. but what we also have to conside, is that some of these homeless people are homeless through no fault of their own. some of these people were once very high earners, but they fell on very hard times.
but isnt it good that we can all use the health sevice as & when we need to, no one is turned away, every one is treated regardless of stature. yes some people abuse the system, but the government is working on this. at the end of the day, those who cannot pay into the system now, through whatever cercomstance, may well be doing so in 5 years time.
when things are going well for us, we tend to think things will stay that way, but as i and many other unfortunates have found out, that may not be the case. our daily lives are fraut with danger
a very good friend of mine had a miscarrage, but her husband had been paying into bupa for the family. so the consultant said he'd do a laperotamy, bupa paid for that, which she had, and everything was fine, no treatment needed.. then a while later they had to renew their contract with bupa, and guess what they would not insure her for anything to do with gynacology, which in many weman is their biggest problem area i think that stinks, they can be so selective. they had paid their contributions on time for more than 7 years, plus the laperotomy showed absolutly nothing wrong.
what is just & fair about that you keep your part of the contract, but they can pick & choose, wriggle in and out as they want.
as you may have guessed, i'm not in favour of insurance backed health care, ie, private. it seems much fairer to me, to pay the money into the kitty, and it is there as & when needed

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:07 am

Hi Jean,

I'm very happy to hear you have resolved your mask issues. Getting the right mask fit is a big part of getting good treatment.

As far as the balance of your comments I'll leave them be, with one exception:

You said:
yes we do pay for the nhs in our national insurance contributions, deduted as you pay your tax... we as a family pay into this big kitty, each & every working person pays into the kitty, and the lions share is from the government.

If there is one thing you can gain from this discussion, please understand that the government has no "lions share" to give. It all, 100%, comes from the taxpayers. Some of these dollars/pounds may come from people who can little afford to pay them. So keep reminding yourself to be very thankful for the healthcare you receive and also keep in mind those people who can least afford to pay that tax when you decide what level of "free" care you will seek.

Irving · Post by **Irving** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:45 am

I'm so glad things are working out for you . And to think that you only have to wait 6 weeks for your MRI. Wonderfull. So happy for you to get a new mask insert. It must be nice to breathe again . Have you gotten your humidifier yet ?That will help your bloody nose. So sorry to hear of your friends insurance problems. I myself have had 6 MRI the past year. Just walked in and done . And I live in a small town. Glad they were all negative for whatever the Dr. was looking for. It didn't cost the government a dime. I made a deal with the guy who operated it. Traded flying time in my plane for a few MRIs . Seemed fair to me. A bargain really. And i made a new friend. There are other ways to get things besides sucking off the government (other people).
There is a poster here named Surly Abond from India. He managed to get treatment via his Dr. and this forum using a computer at his workplace in a book repository. Surely you can find help from your government NHS. For those that cannot pay there are ways to get treatment. Federal law requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment to all.

To others that dont understand NHS you must remember that there are nearly 60 million in the UK. A tiny country. Thay live on top of each other in "council flats" (govt housing) that they may later purchase for building cost minus half the rent that they paid. Even then the average home costs nearly 200,000 GBP ( nearly $400,000) in the south. Thats what you get when you depend on the government to provide for your well being. They are only allowed to build on brown or black land (old industrial sites) for fear of messing up the little forest and greenspace they have. Then they insist on using old building technology driving up the cost further. So they are deeply invested in government programs . High utility and gasoline and personal taxes pay for it all. All to live in a 800 Square foot flat.

Would I like to have health insurance for all? Yes
Coould we afford it? Probably not
Imagine social secuirty X 100. A nightmare.

Look for yourself ww.bbc.com search NHS or council tax

Please dont get me wrong. I love the UK. I visit regularly. Ihave family there. We have this arguement often. Its just a whole different way of thinking , Being part of the collective.

Cheers ,

Irving the expat... LOL....

jean19540_0 · Post by **jean19540_0** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:16 pm

come on, we don't all live in council flats. i live in a very nice semi, morgage paid off in april 2005, yes 3 months, then its ours. ok some might live in council flats, some live in council houses, they cant all aford to buy, but whats wrong with living in a council flat it doesnt mean you have 2 heads or something simalar. i grew up in a council house, my parents low wages at that time (50s) no body rearly knew any differance. my dad died when i was 4 & my sister just over a year old. im sorry if we sucked of the rich for a few years, but think back (if you can) men went to work then to support his wife & family. my dad wasnt there, but we didnt go hungry, mum didnt get much, it wasnt a life of riely, but she made all our own cloths, she decorated herself + everything a man would normaly do. and she did work in her own home, sewing curtains for the local co-op. never ever did my mum learn us to suck off the rich. in those hard years we didnt starve, we had just enough to cover basic houseing needs, but one thing she did teach us was, care and consideration for other human beings.
if people live in a coucil property , they generally dont earn huge wages, what is wrong with providing homes for those who cant afford to take on a morgage i will also tell you this, a lot of council houses are built in the more rural areas, not all of them are the inner city dwellings your talking about. a lot of them a realy nice.
i personally do not agree with the right to buy, it depletes housing stock for those who cant afford to buy in the first place. if people feel the need to buy property, they should do it the way house buyers in general go about it, save hard for a deposit & take out a morgage on a private dwelling. if these people have now come up in the world enough to buy, then they should move out of the council property and buy privatly leaving the council property for those it was intended to help. some might say, weve paid for this in rent, to that id say, youve had a home all of this time havent you???
my mri scan, well i dont have a plane to trade in flying time. if you think the poor and sick general have planes to be able to trade like that you have a very poor perception of what being poor is. i thing 6 weeks is very good, of cause if it was urgent it would be done within days.
please, just just tell me what you think the average person who is sick, disabled or poor has to trade, yhate trips around the med perhaps, quick flight over to new york on concord perhaps or a bottle of supermarket wine & a box of dairy milk perhaps, i dont think so do you cant see the technition who does the scan being bribed with the later can you
did you read my post thoughaly my family pay into the system, so im not sucking off anybody. my mum also concieved me with a consiance, im afraid
doesnt every country have its rough areas or is perhaps the us utopia i have travelled quite abit, and i tell you england, or the uk, is a very beautifull place, lush green fields,some of the most spectacular countryside. ok we may have our share of rain, but we reap the rewards, no desserty areas in the uk. neither are we all crambed on like sardines, there is plenty of open countryside, all around us.
we have our problem people who doesnt but these are in the minority, NOT the majority
i has a uk citizen are very proud of our social services, our health service, and in general our way of life

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:33 pm

Jean,

In the US one who lives in a house worth $400,000 would be considered "Rich" and subject to the punitive taxes used to pay for the less fortunate. I don't know if that's the value of your house, but you didn't refute that point. Irving used trading time in his plane as an example of another way to pay for healthcare without depending on others. I can tell you his plane is worth less than 1/10th of that $400,000 house.

In this discussion we are all trying to put things in perspective. This is why hearing all sides is very instructive. Please read and try to understand what everyone is saying.

Hugh Jass · Post by **Hugh Jass** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:57 pm

This post has received around 80 replies and almost 1200 viewings.

As an exercise in human behavior, I'm starting a thread called Happy to see the reaction.

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:58 pm

Wont work HJ, Bad news travels fast...,Just look at your evening news. Nobody wants to hear about a happy event when they can see a 10 car wreck !

Cheers,

Chris

imissyuma · Post by **imissyuma** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:39 am

Oh my wading,

Your veiled reference to communism just shows the typical ignorance we have because of the last hundred years of propoganda fed by that 3% who own or control 90 percent of our country.

The evils of the Soviet Union, and the destruction of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with its economic system. But with its social system. Communism and socialism works fine all over the world. Totalitarism and despotisim, and corruption destroyed the soviet union.

Taxes are what has made this country great. It made us a world power and provided a huge increase in health, length of life and wealth to much of the U.S. .

We are not a fief or despotic nation, taxes don't go into the pockets of a wealthy ruling few.

An example: In the U.S. we take it for granted that all houses have electricity and heat in all rooms, in many instances even the auto garage is heated and almost all have electricity.

This is only true in the U.S.. In every other modern industrial nation only the very wealthy can afford central heating and only urban areas have electricity.

Of course that's because Corporate America and capitalism is so effiecient, right? Bull! Back when the Democrats were in charge and the rich still paid taxes, taxes built rodes and dams and power plants and schools and everyone benefitted.

Before taxes children did not have a right to an education, in fact, most of our grandparents and great grandparents worked instead of going to school.

What some of our ancesters understood, and we profited from, was that any countries primary and most valuable asset is its citizens.

A well educated, healthy, well fed and housed citizen is an asset to his or her country and pays back to his or her country more than he/she costs on average.

What angers me, is that everyone takes what they have for granted because they deserve it, but they resent the next guy because obviously he obviously doesn't deserve the advantages you grew up with.

Clownshow · Post by **Clownshow** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:03 am

YIKES!

jean19540_0 · Post by **jean19540_0** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:52 am

immissyuma, i totally agree with what you said. no one wants communisum, but what we do want is a fair & just society for each and every one of us to enjoy.. just because people are less fortunate it shouldnt mean they have to suffer, bad schools, poor health care & poor houseing. you know, we're all just one step away from the missing run of the ladder, at any time we could fall off, but does that mean we should be looked down on as suckers off the state or the rich i certainly hope not, i could be next. we only need the right set of cercumstances, to come together, and where are we then? in the same position as the people we thought of as suckers,BUT now they, you, or i are in the same situaion, deemed suckers! you know there are a lot of what we call ten bob millionairs out there, these are folk who are sitting very pretty, thank you very much", have a bit more than the average man might have, so tend to look down on the less fortunate. these people always tend to think, that the less fortunate only have themselves to blame. well that is far from true
if these ten bob millionairs, tried to fit in with the REAL wealthy, the REAL upper class, well i maybe wrong but i dont think they would be accsepted so very easily.
very oftern its the ones who have the least, who tend to give the most (in proportion). they are also generally much more welcoming, im not saying this is true in every case at all.
i know people in my age group (50's),, who have inherited nice tidy sums from their parents, and you should see the change in them . im not saying its wrong to leave your stuff to your offspring, (our stuff will go to our kids), but its how they handle it & treat others in the process:!:

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:29 am

Regarding immissyuma's comments Clownshow said:

YIKES!

...Well put.

Clownshow · Post by **Clownshow** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:35 am

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:08 am

Double YIKES
:lol
Its not the poor that we are talking about. Its the career multigeneration welfare addicts that abuse the system.

This is America. If the Bush family can make a business out of politics who am I to say that the poor cant make a family business out of collecting welfare. Equal opportunity for all. Its what you do with the opportunity that determines your destiny. Same for the UK. Remember Harrison Built his clocks even tho he was not an academic . He was a carpenter. Newton hated him for that and delayed his prize for 25 years. By them Harrison had it down to the size of a pocket watch. Hence came modern navigation. http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.355

just thought i'd ramble....

Cheers,

Chris

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:15 am

Chris,

Thanks for the contextural history lesson. It just proves the point further.

As far as rambling... this topic is approaching 100 replies... plenty of rambling going on here... but all for a good purpose.

Clownshow · Post by **Clownshow** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:23 am

On a lighter note - check this out

Angry

re; healthcare!

come on!

re; society!