Angry

Hogtown Hoser · Post by **Hogtown Hoser** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:16 am

Hogtown is and always will be Toronto. They put on airs, but they got where they are packing bacon.

Not really a fair exchange Irving. You're right. Rich Canadians go to private American clinics for things they'd have to wait for here. Meanwhile, millions of Americans -- according to recent news -- come North for subsidized flu vaccines not available South (no profit in it), following the advise of the man himself, George W! This apart from occasional scandals about the millions of bogus healthcare cards held by citizens of border towns.

So lets do a deal. We'll keep our wealthy, and you provide for your poor . . .

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:48 am

H-town Hoser,

The reason for The US flu vaccine shortage is the artificial cap placed on what manufacturers can charge. Are you willing to work and make no money for it?

First I've heard of bogus Canadian healthcare cards and I live in a border State. (that is if you consider the U.P. as part of WI...which we all do)

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:06 pm

I remember the movie Stripes. Bill Murry was going to lead his men to rescue his comrads in Czechoslovakia, He compared it to going into Wisconsin...LOL...

Chris

LDuyer · Post by **LDuyer** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:52 pm

....Hahahahaha! ..... LOVED that! ....Ha!
And love Bill Murray!

loonlvr · Post by **loonlvr** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:45 pm

Wow, the politics of sleep. One thing that should be universal is our OWN search for knowledge. In this case, its about apnea. This is why we have this forum. There is no doubt there is a lack of knowledge in the general practitioners world about apnea. Sometimes its OUR responsibility to educate them. Doctors may have MD s after their name, but many know little about our condition. Heck, I didn t know I had apnea until people made comments about me stopping breathing at nite. Then I did research. So, learn from others in here and get aggressive about your treatment.

-SWS · Post by **-SWS** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:15 pm

chrisp wrote:I remember the movie Stripes. Bill Murry was going to lead his men to rescue his comrads in Czechoslovakia, He compared it to going into Wisconsin...LOL...

Chris

That was the pretext under which Bill Murray was to trick his men to a military boondoggle in Czechoslovakia.

My understanding is that he was really chasing down rumors of a superior "Bohemian" designed AutoPAP...

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:29 pm

Ah! the truth comes out. Murray was only able to convince his soldiers to invade Czechoslovakia by telling them they were going to Wisconsin. I guess that's because everybody wants to go to Wisconsin. Especially in this beautiful weather we are now having!

RubyKat · Post by **RubyKat** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:54 am

Interesting discussion. Two things I've gotten out of it:

a) I'm lucky I have a good doctor; sleep apnea is difficult to diagnose if one doesn't have a sleeping partner to say "you stopped breathing". All the poor doctor has to go on is "fatigue", and that is connected with so many diseases it's not funny. And because I had acute pain in my foot about a month after I really started noticing my fatigue (it had crept up on me like a silent menace) he was trying to account for both things, and was testing me for Lupus as well as a bunch of other things, referred me to a rheumatologist, had x-rays and ultrasound on my foot, and multiple blood tests. Sleep apnea was not the first thing he thought of, but he did think of it eventually, and did take it seriously.

b) I'm lucky I live in Australia, which, as far as I'm concerned, has the best of both worlds as far as healthcare goes. Medicare takes care of the essentials for everybody, private health insurance takes care of the extras and makes some things quicker/nicer. For me it was swings and roundabouts: the sleep study and calibration study were cheap; the CPAP machine itself was expensive. And I have no problem seeing my doctor regularly.

Wader, your remarks made me very angry, much more angry than Popinka's situation she was ranting about. But there's no point in saying more, because you have demonstrated that nothing anybody says to you will change your attitude.
You merely give me another reason to be grateful that I live in Australia.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:56 am

RubyKat,

What specific remarks of mine "made you very angry"? Maybe I might change my mind if you can convince me otherwise. I will say I put a lot of thought and effort into developing my opinions so they won't be changed by just stating an opposing view. I'm definately open to discussion though.

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:56 am

Funny about the flu vaccine. They "created" a shortage to drive up the price. They discovered they had enough after all. Now they cant give them away. Ha , server them right. Greedy bastards.

Cheers,

Chri s

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 am

Funny about the flu vaccine. They "created" a shortage to drive up the price. They discovered they had enough after all. Now they cant give them away. Ha , server them right. Greedy bastards.

Cheers,

Chri s

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:40 pm

wading thru the muck! wrote:RubyKat,
What specific remarks of mine "made you very angry"? Maybe I might change my mind if you can convince me otherwise. I will say I put a lot of thought and effort into developing my opinions so they won't be changed by just stating an opposing view. I'm definately open to discussion though.

Well, this was the first one:

wading thru the muck! wrote: How have we gotten to the point as citizens of this planet that our "just existing" gives us the right to reach into everyone elses pocketbook to pay for our needs (and wants). Don't tell me the government will pay for it. The government can't give anything to someone that it hasn't taken away from someone else.

And there was a lot more in that vein, such as:

wading thru the muck! wrote:As soon as "society" sits in my chair 12 hours a day and get's my work done I'll be willing to pay "it" back.

Since you have demonstrated in that quote that you don't care a fig for "the good of society", then I really am at my wits end to think of any kind of argument that would persuade you to change your mind.

Of course, there is the pragmatic one that public healthcare benefits you indirectly because better healthcare in general reduces the risks of your kids getting dangerous diseases, that it reduces your job-stress because your fellow workers aren't off sick as much, that it reduces your financial stress if you had aged parents to look after, or your kids financial stress if they had you to look after -- if, for example you had had a stroke due to your sleep apnea before it was diagnosed.

From the number of horror stories I've heard about the US healthcare system, I shake my head at the utter deludedness of US folk who keep on saying that the US has the best healthcare system in the world, because as far as I can see, it has the worst healthcare system in the Western world.

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:23 pm

RubyKat,

Here in the United States of America our government was founded on, among other things, the tenet of "individual liberty" That is the belief that Society is most benefited when the rights of the individual are protected. A socialized health system or any socialist endevour for that matter can only be accomplished by trampling on the rights of the individual to own and hold property gained of their own efforts. You say I don't "care a fig" for the good of society, but that's not true. I care as much or more than you do, but our ideas of what's "best for society" are different. I am not alone in my beliefs. Our whole Country was founded on such beliefs. I agree with you about the benefits to society of good healthcare. I and many others don't believe the best road to that end is a public healthcare system. A capitalist system of many competitve choices for the health consumer is the best way to acheive universal and affordable healthcare and still preserve the individual liberties that allow it to happen.

Ayn Rand Says...
Poverty is not a mortgage on the labor of others - misfortune is not a mortgage on achievement - failure is not a mortgage on success - suffering is not a claim check, and its relief is not the goal of existence - man is not a sacrificial animal on anyone's altar nor for anyone's cause - life is not one huge hospital.
-- Ayn Rand, "Apollo 11," The Objectivist

Thanks r.g.

Janelle · Post by **Janelle** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:30 pm

I've watched this thread totally deteriorate into an international treaty on differences, politics, and the like and I think it is time it is stopped. I'm sure there are separate forums for this or you can take it private.

This is supposed to be a forum to talk about Sleep Apnea and CPAP!

wading thru the muck! · Post by **wading thru the muck!** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:35 pm

Janelle,

Healthcare and the way it's organized and funded is central to the successful treatment of sleep apnea. These are difficult issues that concern us all and an open discussion (not one behind the scenes) is very beneficial. I will add that this thread is the most responded to in the history of this forum. I think that speaks for itself as far as the validity of the topic.

Angry

hahaha

Czechoslovakia

Enough Already!