Hello Jean,
Whilst I have no problems with a persons political views or ideas of NHS I do have a problem when they call anyone whom makes a living in their own private enterpsise being compared to the KKK. If you believe in social programs thats fine. Then support those programs. Don't tell me how evil I am and then sneak in the back door because it saves you money or time or whatever. Practice what you preach. Thats all. Generally NHS is a good thing. We dont have it so it is pointless to argue . However, there is something wrong with a system that provides a device with a copay that is nearly twice the cost of the item on the open market.
Mandatory payment under NHS $1400 Canadian
Cost for systen at cpap.com $750 USD
What did they get for their $$$ in Canada ?
This isnt a slam against Canadians or any others like Jane in UK. If you believe in your idiology than support it but you cant have it both ways.
Or can you.
Ask me my opinion of electric plugs in europe . Its a good lesson of the economy of scale.
Fly Guy
Angry
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Popinka
Wow Fly Guy, that was really low. I was honest enough to admit that I has a weight problem and have discussed with others on here with similar issues how to tackle this in light our sleep apnea. Since you did not do me the courtesy of refraining from low blows I should reply in kind...but to engage in a debate with you would be like stealing candy from a baby.
Actually I don't blame anyone for anything. I get up every morning at 6 and work 6 days a week.
I am a lawyer, and I do work as a defence lawyer -- at once for banks / brokerages and now for insurance companies. I fully participate in a capitalist system, which is not inconsistent with socially responsible government. My contribution: My husband and I both donate to charity. My husband is a voluteer for big brother's and I volunteer for the lawyer's feed the hungry program and do a great deal of pro bono work. I have deductions taken off every paycheck for the united way. We both tithe to our church. That and I pay more taxes than most (and don't gripe about it). And instead of voting for parties which would put more money in our pockets through tax cuts we try to be socially responsible. Once I get this sleep apnea licked I hope my capacity for contribution will increase.
What is your damage dude?
Actually I don't blame anyone for anything. I get up every morning at 6 and work 6 days a week.
I am a lawyer, and I do work as a defence lawyer -- at once for banks / brokerages and now for insurance companies. I fully participate in a capitalist system, which is not inconsistent with socially responsible government. My contribution: My husband and I both donate to charity. My husband is a voluteer for big brother's and I volunteer for the lawyer's feed the hungry program and do a great deal of pro bono work. I have deductions taken off every paycheck for the united way. We both tithe to our church. That and I pay more taxes than most (and don't gripe about it). And instead of voting for parties which would put more money in our pockets through tax cuts we try to be socially responsible. Once I get this sleep apnea licked I hope my capacity for contribution will increase.
What is your damage dude?
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jean19540_0
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:17 pm
- Location: nottingham uk
excuse me!
fly guy,
where on earth did i say that you were evil what are you on about sneaking through the back door to save money . i also have compaired nobody to the kkk, i dont slag people off like that, you've got the wrong person there as regards to costs, i asked the technition who deals with this field, fitting people out with the right masks cpap ect, he also is responsable for ordering new stock, just how much this equipment costs. his words to me were, to fit you out with your equipment, ie, cpap machine, mask, hose, ect it comes in at under £500 complete. so i dont think thats being ripped off do you i dont belive in pipe dreams, i am realistic, what i belive in isnt an ideolagy, i truely belive we have a good system, i dont want it both ways, just one way will do for me thank you, and i do support it & will continue to do so. .you know this for a fact, i have a lot of medical problems, & i am severly disabled, over the years i have endured some terrible experiances, terrible pain ect, but i have always stuck to my princeples, the nhs has been a wonderfull system, it has looked after me very well thank you, without it i would not be here today . i have not either sponged off the system, i have used it when nessesary, and we have paid into it all our lives. anyway i have now got my point of view & belives across, so i will close wishing you all the best jean
where on earth did i say that you were evil what are you on about sneaking through the back door to save money . i also have compaired nobody to the kkk, i dont slag people off like that, you've got the wrong person there as regards to costs, i asked the technition who deals with this field, fitting people out with the right masks cpap ect, he also is responsable for ordering new stock, just how much this equipment costs. his words to me were, to fit you out with your equipment, ie, cpap machine, mask, hose, ect it comes in at under £500 complete. so i dont think thats being ripped off do you i dont belive in pipe dreams, i am realistic, what i belive in isnt an ideolagy, i truely belive we have a good system, i dont want it both ways, just one way will do for me thank you, and i do support it & will continue to do so. .you know this for a fact, i have a lot of medical problems, & i am severly disabled, over the years i have endured some terrible experiances, terrible pain ect, but i have always stuck to my princeples, the nhs has been a wonderfull system, it has looked after me very well thank you, without it i would not be here today . i have not either sponged off the system, i have used it when nessesary, and we have paid into it all our lives. anyway i have now got my point of view & belives across, so i will close wishing you all the best jean
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Guest
Fly Guy,
Sorry I should leave this alone, but your comments really misrepresented what I said. I think that if you read my posts carefully you would not have taken what you took from it. Here is the Cole's Notes version in case you need it.
(1) THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPITALISM OR A FREE MARKET. In fact, when functioning properly, a free market can be one of the most beautiful things in creation...when supply meets demand at equilibrium consumer's benefit through low pricing, employer's benefit through access to the best and most efficient employees, and the world market's function the way they should.
(2) Canada and the U.S. and Northern Europe do not operate in a truely free market...the U.S. (and Canada and the E.U. to a lesser degree) protect trade and shut out weaker nations from selling products at which the U.S. is at a natural disadvantage, keeping those countries poor. There are many market manipulations and corporate laws that are not enforced. Corporations are hugely subsidized and corporate crime is rampant ...look at Enron, World Com or any employee who has had their pension robbed and tell me that the market is fair and the only crooks out their are those on welfare. Corporations now pay 1/10 of the taxes they did 50 years ago...is that leading to more jobs, better prices or better opportunities for Americans?
(3) The Klan analogy...People often blame those weaker for their hardships because it is easy. Look at that guy "robbing the system" of $500 a month versus look at that CEO making $52 million dollars a year regardless of performance, and to the detriment of consumers (who pay that salary) and shareholders. Some will always make more than others, due to differences in apptitude, application, opportunity and plain luck....but there is no sense of balance anymore. The average corporate exec used to make 10 times as much as the average worker, now it is something like 300 times. The differences haves and have nots becoming very extreme...who can afford to send their children to Yale at $42,000.00 (U.S.) a year tuition, unless they themselves make a high six figure salary. Americans, despite increases in productivity and profits are losing pensions, benefits and job security at a frightening rate.
(4) The idea that in the U.S. you can just pick yourself up by the bootstraps and make it rich a falacy of fools and keeps rich goons that don't give a crap about you in office. While there may be some exceptional stories that does not reflect the reality of the vast majority of Americans. If you are working poor, it is very unlikley anymore that your kids will "make it" (look at statistics for social mobility in the U.S.).
(5) There are people who fall through the cracks. Any statistical or economic model recognizes that. Classic conservatives always made allowance for this. I don't want to live in a world were hardworking and underpaid people cannot afford necessities for themselves and their family, while others live beyond the reach of averice.
Sorry I should leave this alone, but your comments really misrepresented what I said. I think that if you read my posts carefully you would not have taken what you took from it. Here is the Cole's Notes version in case you need it.
(1) THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH CAPITALISM OR A FREE MARKET. In fact, when functioning properly, a free market can be one of the most beautiful things in creation...when supply meets demand at equilibrium consumer's benefit through low pricing, employer's benefit through access to the best and most efficient employees, and the world market's function the way they should.
(2) Canada and the U.S. and Northern Europe do not operate in a truely free market...the U.S. (and Canada and the E.U. to a lesser degree) protect trade and shut out weaker nations from selling products at which the U.S. is at a natural disadvantage, keeping those countries poor. There are many market manipulations and corporate laws that are not enforced. Corporations are hugely subsidized and corporate crime is rampant ...look at Enron, World Com or any employee who has had their pension robbed and tell me that the market is fair and the only crooks out their are those on welfare. Corporations now pay 1/10 of the taxes they did 50 years ago...is that leading to more jobs, better prices or better opportunities for Americans?
(3) The Klan analogy...People often blame those weaker for their hardships because it is easy. Look at that guy "robbing the system" of $500 a month versus look at that CEO making $52 million dollars a year regardless of performance, and to the detriment of consumers (who pay that salary) and shareholders. Some will always make more than others, due to differences in apptitude, application, opportunity and plain luck....but there is no sense of balance anymore. The average corporate exec used to make 10 times as much as the average worker, now it is something like 300 times. The differences haves and have nots becoming very extreme...who can afford to send their children to Yale at $42,000.00 (U.S.) a year tuition, unless they themselves make a high six figure salary. Americans, despite increases in productivity and profits are losing pensions, benefits and job security at a frightening rate.
(4) The idea that in the U.S. you can just pick yourself up by the bootstraps and make it rich a falacy of fools and keeps rich goons that don't give a crap about you in office. While there may be some exceptional stories that does not reflect the reality of the vast majority of Americans. If you are working poor, it is very unlikley anymore that your kids will "make it" (look at statistics for social mobility in the U.S.).
(5) There are people who fall through the cracks. Any statistical or economic model recognizes that. Classic conservatives always made allowance for this. I don't want to live in a world were hardworking and underpaid people cannot afford necessities for themselves and their family, while others live beyond the reach of averice.
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Fly Guy
Jean, The back door and KKK reference was for Popinka not you. Slow down a bit when you read. My answer was in response to your rant about my personal blows to Popinka. So stop . Go back a few posts and start reading again slowly and carefully. You will see that there is no reference to you. Popinka was my target. Notice the reference to canada. Not UK. Take a deep breath and relllaaax. Just because a post has NHS in it doesn't mean it is directed toward you Jean.. Remember i am only voicing an opinion. You missed it jean.
Perhaps if Popinka didn't steal candy from babies she wouldnt have a weight problem and wouldn't be having to deal with her insecurities. Steal candy from babies often Popinka? But she suffers from sleep apnea like the rest of us so I forgive her and you Jean and myself while I'm at it. Sleep apnea makes you do strange things . Remember we're in a "fog" and looking for someone to blame.
Jean, US & UK : Two countries seperated by a common language Canada too
When in fog, trust your instruments
Fly Guy
Perhaps if Popinka didn't steal candy from babies she wouldnt have a weight problem and wouldn't be having to deal with her insecurities. Steal candy from babies often Popinka? But she suffers from sleep apnea like the rest of us so I forgive her and you Jean and myself while I'm at it. Sleep apnea makes you do strange things . Remember we're in a "fog" and looking for someone to blame.
Jean, US & UK : Two countries seperated by a common language Canada too
When in fog, trust your instruments
Fly Guy
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Waverly
TIME OUT GUYS. I think I can sort this out.
Poopinka. A few pages back you made reference to the Klan and business.
Jean. Fly Guy was comparing prices of cpap in Canada and USA . He was addressing Popinka.
Fly Guy. There is no way you can use american slang and free market logic when speaking to those from socialist systems. They just don't have the experience too understand it and you them. Its like the words have a totally different meaning. You were correct with the 2 countrys seperated by a common language line.
Now . Does anyone have any good Sleep Apnea tales to tell. Something that doesn't involve dissing the other posters here.
Waverly
Poopinka. A few pages back you made reference to the Klan and business.
Jean. Fly Guy was comparing prices of cpap in Canada and USA . He was addressing Popinka.
Fly Guy. There is no way you can use american slang and free market logic when speaking to those from socialist systems. They just don't have the experience too understand it and you them. Its like the words have a totally different meaning. You were correct with the 2 countrys seperated by a common language line.
Now . Does anyone have any good Sleep Apnea tales to tell. Something that doesn't involve dissing the other posters here.
Waverly
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Fly Guy
Thanks Waverly,
I guess the best thing to do is to offer my sincere apopogy to Popinka and Jean.
Remember to be compared to the "Klan" is not a good thing in the USA. It kind of set me off.
I should not have brought Popinkas weight into the discussion. That was low.
Jean go on reading as fast as you'd like. But remember NHS doesn't always mean UK NHS.
Steve if they only knew.
Fly Guy
I guess the best thing to do is to offer my sincere apopogy to Popinka and Jean.
Remember to be compared to the "Klan" is not a good thing in the USA. It kind of set me off.
I should not have brought Popinkas weight into the discussion. That was low.
Jean go on reading as fast as you'd like. But remember NHS doesn't always mean UK NHS.
Steve if they only knew.
Fly Guy
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Popinka
Fly Guy, since you seem to resort (do you have any other weapons in your arsenal?) to the rhetorical tactics of an 8 year old...let me just say "nan na nan na na...fly GAY has corporate cooties". Call me fat instead of replying the the substance of what I have written...hard to respond to the ploys of a half wit.
With respect Waverly, these observations about your economic system are not confined to those from "communist" counties. My husband studied economics and international relations at in YOUR COUNTRY at Princeton (Woodrow WIlson school of International Affairs) and shares my views. I am a corporate lawyer (who did a busines/economics undergrad and my husband is ex-military and now teaches history/I.R....we are hardly communists). Half the population of the U.S. feels the same way as do some of your greatest thinkers. Too bad they don't get any airtime.
This is my final post on this thread. What started as an engaging exchange of ideas, has deteriorated into a banal dumping ground. Fly guy carry on as you are, what do I care...
Instead of reading widely, accept what your mainstream media tells you without question. Villanize those who dare to question what it is comfortable to believe.
Keep on calling yourself a democracy and elect governments which heavily censor their own media and spy on their own populace. Any country with a "TIPs" program is not a well functioning demoncracy.
Keep on bombing other counties in the name of that "democracy" and wonder why generations grow up hating you. Send your poorest children into harms way, while the children of oil company tycoons laugh all the way to the bank.
Keep on attending your Baptist and Pentacostal chuches and screaming about how gay marriages, single mothers and those on welfare are dragging down society and pretend to be Christians...and ignoring every message of love and compassion Christ ever taught.
Keep on voting for Billionaires who could care less about the security, health or well-being of you and your children and their environment. Keep on "believing". Hope it works out for you.
With respect Waverly, these observations about your economic system are not confined to those from "communist" counties. My husband studied economics and international relations at in YOUR COUNTRY at Princeton (Woodrow WIlson school of International Affairs) and shares my views. I am a corporate lawyer (who did a busines/economics undergrad and my husband is ex-military and now teaches history/I.R....we are hardly communists). Half the population of the U.S. feels the same way as do some of your greatest thinkers. Too bad they don't get any airtime.
This is my final post on this thread. What started as an engaging exchange of ideas, has deteriorated into a banal dumping ground. Fly guy carry on as you are, what do I care...
Instead of reading widely, accept what your mainstream media tells you without question. Villanize those who dare to question what it is comfortable to believe.
Keep on calling yourself a democracy and elect governments which heavily censor their own media and spy on their own populace. Any country with a "TIPs" program is not a well functioning demoncracy.
Keep on bombing other counties in the name of that "democracy" and wonder why generations grow up hating you. Send your poorest children into harms way, while the children of oil company tycoons laugh all the way to the bank.
Keep on attending your Baptist and Pentacostal chuches and screaming about how gay marriages, single mothers and those on welfare are dragging down society and pretend to be Christians...and ignoring every message of love and compassion Christ ever taught.
Keep on voting for Billionaires who could care less about the security, health or well-being of you and your children and their environment. Keep on "believing". Hope it works out for you.
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Popinka
This is my final post on this thread. What started as an engaging exchange of ideas, has deteriorated into a banal dumping ground. Fly guy carry on as you are, what do I care...
Instead of reading widely, accept what your mainstream media tells you without question. Villanize those who dare to question what it is comfortable to believe.
Keep on calling yourself a democracy and elect governments which heavily censor their own media and spy on their own populace. Any country with a "TIPs" program is not a well functioning demoncracy.
Keep on bombing other counties in the name of that "democracy" and wonder why generations grow up hating you. Send your poorest children into harms way, while the children of oil company tycoons laugh all the way to the bank.
Keep on attending your Baptist and Pentacostal chuches and screaming about how gay marriages, single mothers and those on welfare are dragging down society and pretend to be Christians...and ignoring every message of love and compassion Christ ever taught.
Keep on voting for Billionaires who could care less about the security, health or well-being of you and your children and their environment. Keep on "believing". Hope it works out for you.
My thoughts exactly
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wading thru the muck!
- Posts: 2799
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:42 am
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jean19540_0
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:17 pm
- Location: nottingham uk
and has papinka stated & clownshow quoted, my thoughts exactly hope we can all get some peace now, unless anybody else as anymore great ideas about it all i think we all ort to perhaphs, take some much needed rest now, and let this debate continue (if it does) at a distance. but i bet one of us wont be able to help, but have another dig. we'll have to wait & see all the beast to you all, jean