A real Lemon!

Thank you sir, I'm glad you did finally recognize there may be a problem with the machine. Obviously, there IS a reason.....WHATEVER it may be. (The machine malfunctions) As to my past history for work, how old my house is, my electrical wiring, if I have a battery backup, those are inappropriate questions.
The original post is titles A real lemon, referring to my machine in my opinion. If letting people know on this forum how my machine has done and how cpap and Respironics has responded is "trash" and "badmouth" as you put it, then so be it. That is what the forum is for, to inform. Their has been no options for getting another machine as of yet. Sir, I do have a backup, a Respironics too, and it works fine. Now, would you suggest I just store this one under warranty and use my old one? Then when the warranty on this one expires, just toss it out? Plus my personal respiratory condition has nothing to do with this thread. All of your personal, unrelated questions are strickly to bash me, along with a few others who have replied. I'm afraid I will no longer be able to answer any more of your questions along these lines. I hope you get the problem with your machine resolved, but I'm sorry that I can't extend any sympathy your way.
Thank you for your remarks and I will survive without your sympathy. (I will get the machine repaired too, without your sympathy!) I don't have a problem with the machine, it either works or it don't. Cpap and Respironics has the problem of repairing it or replacing it as long as it is under warranty. Thanks again...

Sthnreb,
I am sorry to learn of your troubles with your Respironics BiPAP Pro 2. I also have this machine and I really like it (no troubles....simple to use) and it does not go on the "blitz". You are right...you definitely have a lemon. I'm with you....you should have a replacement (new). I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Thank you. I really like this one too. That is the reason I continue to keep using it and want it to work correctly. I'm with you, it should work and be simple to use. I don't doubt it can be repaired even if it takes replacing all the components. But I did buy new, not rebuilt or used and it has given trouble since I've had it. I've grown used to a bipap at night after 4 years and depend on it. I'm sure most on here have also. When you lose confidence that yours will work it makes it difficult. I have my first one which is a bipap pro that I've never has any problems with. I expect the same from this bipap pro 2.

Opinions are like that, A**holes, everyone has one. Thus everyone is entitled to their own.
Very Humorous

I've never made any attempt to change any rules. All I ask is mine be repaired, which they evidently can't do since they had it for 3 weeks and said it was repaired.
Then let them try to repair it.

Evidently you have no idea of the conception of a lemon product.
Thirty years in the retail automobile business, I have lots of experience with warranties and “lemon laws”.

1) I've never asked them to do anything beyond the warranty as you state. You only will accept a new machine with new warranty, sounds like an added demand to me that isn’t written into the warranty.

2) Since the machine was purchased from them, it becomes their responsibility to warranty the machine.
You would find it very difficult to find any court in America to agree with that idea.

My money was paid to them, not Respironics. Respironics doesn't deal with end users, therefore it becomes cpap's, the seller, who is responsible ultimately and has to deal with Respironics.
Give them a chance.

If Respironics warranteed the machine to me, I may agree with you, but they don't.
You should re-read the Warranty again to see if CPAP.Com is the Warrantor, or if they will handle the warranty for the manufacturer. As to sending it back, after you return it to them.

3) "They sold you a product, it worked." You are incorrect. It did not work, that was why I returned it to begin with. They had every opportunity to fix it, they had it 3 weeks. It has the same problem now as then and it is about 6 months old. So, how do you figure they had no chance to fix it? It has never worked right since I've had it.

It NEVER worked? I guess I misunderstood, as I thought it worked, broke, you sent it in, got it back, worked, broke again and this is where you are at.
Did it not work when they sent it back to you at all?
If it NEVER worked, and they NEVER had it working, then I agree, they should give you a brand new machine and warrantee.

I reject continually sending a machine back and forth until the warranty expires. Now is the time to correct it, not when the warranty expires. You are right. The longer it takes, the harder it becomes.
4) What is your job with cpap?
I don’t work, as I am a semi retired auto salesman and have a little business of my own.

Only an employee would make such nasty statement and name calling as you.
You are wrong again. Just expressed my opinion, as you so humorously stated, implying that I am a “A**hole”. I think everyone that has read the thread, obviously you haven't, can see who the real jerk is. It very well could be me. The group probably has differing opinions. I know, the ones who don’t agree with you, are the jerks. (I shrug and make a face)

5) The best place to post is on this board.
Agreed

I would think cpap would appreciate it.
I doubt it.

Unless they are really out to beat someone as you suggest.
I suggested that? I misled you all, if did that. I didn’t mean to. I have always found their prices to be fair, service quick and never have had a problem.

Postive as well and negative should be brought out here, that's what it is for. Crawl back and have another Martini. You musta had several already.
Since you don’t know me, I’ll just tell you, and it is a FACT, I have been dry for 25 years, and 3 days. Proudly I acknowledge, Yes I am an alcoholic. I find it humorous to have a screen name as such. Evidently you don’t or you would not have attacked me in that way. My memories of a dry martini, a good cigar and a lovely young lady are all that I have left, as I haven’t had any for over 25 years. I’ll pass, on your suggestion to crawl anywhere. I can see we don’t agree on very much.

Greetings, Martini Lover,

Personally I have a problem tolerating someone that just wants to be confrontational. Car dealers are well known for that. They've earned the honor too.
1. I have let them TRY to repair it.
2. I stated they had it and tried to repair it. You say then let them try to repair it?? Read it again, you contridict yourself.
3. I've dealt with automobile people. Quite confrontational, anyone will agree. Always out to beat someone or overcharge them. And, the service departments are even worse than that because they get paid on commission. Most do not agree with a lemon law either.
4. I'm from the south, not you. I will let you know who my credit card company thinks is responsible as soon as I hear back from them. What America do you live in anyway? Who do you think is responsible for the warranty? Me?
5. Read the threads, they've had a chance, plenty. I feel I am wasting my time even responding to this.
6. Respironics warranties the machine to Cpap who is the seller. Try calling them. They will tell you quite fast, if they even talk to you. Cpap passes the warranty on to the end user. However, any warranty has to pass through Cpap. Respironics will reject any item sent to then other than one for their dealers. The warranty states: "Respironics, Inc. warrants that the device shall be free from defects of workmanship and materials and will perform in accordance with the product specifications for a period of two (2) years from the date of sale by Respironics Inc. to the dealer." Once again, to the dealer, not the consumer. This could also mean the warranty could be less than two years, depending on how long the dealer had the item. Let's assume it counts from the time they ship to the end user.

I assume past and present alcoholics take offense to mention of those things. I've never been one so I don't know. I really don't think this is even the place to discuss that or ones personal life. I don't agree with anyone that calls me names. As long as it is concerning the thread, I am open.

Greetings back at you,

As I am a recipient of second chances, (many) I truly believe that they can work.

I would suggest that you follow the warranty instructions and send it back to CPAP.COM for them to take care of. (Second Chance) It might just work out for you.

Unlike confrontational rip-off car salesmen and rip-off commissioned mechanics I think Respironics and CPAP.COM are interested in you having a machine that works properly, and you being a happy customer.

Good Luck to you!!!

Thank you for your suggestions and comments.

Sthnreb,

Sorry to hear of your exasperating experience.

My first Remstar Pro had a runaway problem where the air just blasted in an uncontrolled manner. Fortunately my DME replaced it promptly with what appeared to be a new machine.

I don't understand why you are being treated so badly. I know it is frustrating. Respironics and cpap.man should PROMPTLY get this problem resolved for you. It looks like their warranty is worthless.

I've returned it once for repairs and it was returned to Respironics. It ran for 3 months before the same problem. I checked my encore software and according to it, the night in question, the encore showed it stopped about 5-6 times. I only went to the bathroom once. Because I was fully awake the last time, I knew for a fact it stopped. The auto on feature causes it to come back on. If you are asleep, you would gasp several times because the air is off and the auto turns it back on, making it difficult to know what happened. I was wide awake the last time. Cpap did say I could return it and they would have Respironics look at it again. I figured if they didn't fix it the first time, why would they now? The first time when I first got it, they offered me a used machine (refurbished) or repair mine, I chose mine. At present, I am just monitoring it, if it stops again for sure, I will return it, no questions asked. It becomes very difficult to use it when you lose confidence that it will work properly as warranted. I would feel better if they just replaced it with a new one. It is now about 6 months old and been in for repairs once, at 1-1/2 months, and has failed again already. Mr. Goodman is aware of the problem but they have offered me no relief other than returning it for repairs again. I guess the warranty will expire and I will be stuck with a non functioning machine. All of Cpap monitors this board also, so they know what is going on.

sthnreb, Do you have a lemon law in your state?
If you do, your machine should fall under this category.
Go for it.

While you are at it, write to the Better Business Buearua, your states attorney general's office. This will make heads roll.

I have had to do this myself, but with a DME of powerchair equipment.

Good Luck.

Greetings sthnreb,

The day this thread was posted, the President and CEO of our company called you, discussed fixes with you, and gave you direct access to call him back with your findings.

He is still waiting to hear from you regarding this issue.

Johnny

johnnygoodman wrote:Greetings sthnreb,

The day this thread was posted, the President and CEO of our company called you, discussed fixes with you, and gave you direct access to call him back with your findings.

He is still waiting to hear from you regarding this issue.

Johnny

Hi Johnny,
You are correct, as I have posted earlier, stating he called. He asked me questions to determine if the machine actually stopped or if it were a power problem. I then explained it wasn't a power problem and I was fully awake when it stopped. He was also aware that I had lost confidence in the machine. He said see if it stops again. You can call me back through the main office and ask for me, no direct access, I may or may not be in since I have other venues. I am asked for "proof", so what is acceptable proof? All I have been able to offer is my word, encore software and the fact it was checked by Respironics once before and evidently found faulty. It seemed to me that "proof" was a key issue. He also said he could put some pressure on Respironics but did not know the extent or what they would do. So far, it hasn't stopped that I can "prove" again other than my encore pro readout. It shows it stopped 5 times the night in question and twice the following night. I only went to the bathroom the one time, so there are 6 unaccounted for stops. Since I cannot "prove" it stopped other than the encore pro, I am waiting for it to stop again for sure and as I stated, I will send it back immediately. Now, I will be glad to return it right now, but there seemed to be question as to whether it actually stopped or not from cpap. You have my name and email address (and phone number), if you think the evidence is sufficient, send me an RMA number immediately, I think it is. I know definately it stopped the one time I was wide awake, plus the previous times when it was returned. There is no power failure when it stops. The blower just stops blowing and the machine goes to standby. After 3 or so breaths into the mask, the auto on turns it back on. This is the email I received from cpap:

I also shared this knowledge with Mr. Goodman. He
asked that I follow up with you and discuss the above.
Since your machine already had the Auto Off feature
disabled the machine should not turn itself off. I
belive what Mr. Goodman was looking for was to see if
the Auto Off feature was faulty and turning your
machine off, and by your previous email it sounds like
the Auto On feature is working.

Now why is your machine stopping? Is this a fluke?
We have no way of knowing. The problems you had the
first time were constant or at least more frequent.
This time it has been about 3 months of use and
yesterday morning it stopped. When it did stop, did
you get up and verify the machine was turned off with
no power or did it start blowing after a few breaths?
I think it takes 3 for the machine to turn itself on.
Other than not feeling any air blowing, did you verify
any other way that it was turned off?
Let us know if you want to continue monitoring the
machine or if you would like Respironics to look it
over again.
Regards,
Adam
Cpap.com


The questions asked me seem to invalidate what I said and make me out wrong. I had answered all these question on the phone already. Therefore, I was awaiting for it to stop again before I made the return. It was also as you read, turned over to Adam to pursue as I read it. Please let me know if you would like it returned immediately. I would be glad too. Also, Mr. Goodman said cpap could supply me a loaner possibly while it is resolved. I wait for that too. Basically, I just want a machine that works like I paid for. I don't intend to bash anyone and apologize if it appears that way. I do feel my machine is a lemon and doesn't function properly and never has, even after being in to Respironics for repair. I will gladly return it immediately with no remorse whatsoever. Thanks, as I know many have followed this. Hopefully I can put up a positive resolution in the near future.

Why wouldn't your software that records all the data and shows when the machine is off be proof enough? If you aren't being called a liar and you are saying you are not turning the machine off, and there it is on the Encorepro software showing the machine stops multiple times for no reason, what further proof would it take? I would think that the recording stops on the software would be proof enough.

And why would you be offered a refurbished machine when you bought new and this couldn't be fixed? I would think a brand new machine would be in order. If you had this problem even two months before the end of a two-year warantee and they can't fix it so that it will continue to work properly, you should even then be entitled to a replacment of what you bought, which is a new machine. If you bought a refurbished machine, then that's all you should be entitled to. But you should get replaced what you paid for, and that is a new machine. We're not talking about a TV set here. We're talking about something that your life depends on. And I'll bet Sony would replace one of their TVs with a brand new one if they couldn't fix the one you bought brand new once and for all.

Good luck. This really seems to be ridiculous. It should be cut and dry. If they can't repair the machine to stay working, give you a new one. What is the problem? Did you haggle on the price or did you pay what they asked? If you paid full price, you shouldn't be treated like you're looking for something you didn't deserve and pay for in the first place. Sorry to hear you're going through this. I just don't understand why.

Hi Lori.
I bought new, out of pocket. The cost was $1569 to me and 2 weeks later it dropped to $1499. No complaint because I paid what they were asking at the time. I did figure the price difference of $70 and failure so soon should warranty a new replacement. As I've stated, they changed their warranty on replacement just as I returned my unit, I was told. It's also not that it can't be fixed but I have the same problem now as I did before after sending it in. Wouldn't you think if all the parts were replaced it should work? But, then, what's the difference than a new one? Evidently whatever is causing the problem has not been found and repaired. It did run for a while after the repair but has now stopped again. I have a little difficulity with proof too. The fact I say it stops should be sufficient to warranty checking it out immediately. I plan to only allow it to stop one more time that I am fully awake and know it stopped. I guess they just want to be sure it is a problem with the machine and not a user error. I was told if they replaced everyones machine that said they malfunctioned, they would have a warehouse full of machines they could not use as they don't sell used machines. Therefore, they have to get Respironics to replace it with a new machine to them in order for them to replace mine with a new machine. Respironics seems to be bound by their own rules and are unyielding in replacement if even for public relations. I can return the machine now under the warranty but I have no assurance whatsoever that it would be repaired properly because it wasn't the first time. I would have to have some sort of agreement of solution before I return it this time because I don't want to repeat it again. However, one more stop and it's hasta la vista regardless. Thanks Lori for your response and good words.

sthnreb,

I'm feeling your frustration and anguish. I would be a bit upset over the fact that you KNOW what is going on, have already sent it in for repair, they supposedly fixed it and yet it's still doing it and they insist on proof because, as the put it to you, if they took everyone's word for malfunctioning machines and replaced them all, they'd have a warehouse full of them. That, to me, is like calling you a liar to your face.

Now, let me ask you, are you having fun yet? Are you doing this because you like the stress of arguing with these companies over a machine that really doesn't need replacement and the inconvenience of sending the machine back to Respironics and being without one, thereby putting your health at risk? Do you have nothing better to do with your time than to play this type of game with them to fill your days with joy? Come on. This is BS. Most people are not going to send in a working machine for another if it's semi-new and really works as that means they will be without one for the time it takes to do that PLUS there would be no valid reason to do it. You are not at the end of your warantee and trying to pull something to get a new machine before the warantee expires. You have documented proof that it broke and did this when the machine was a month old. I take it as you being call a liar if they don't allow you to get this machine exchanged. Either that or you're an idiot who doesn't know how to keep a machine running. Come on, sthnred, what are you doing to make that machine shut off so many times a night? Spill!!!

I think this is still ridiculous and they should do right by you. I don't care if it's cpap.com or Respironics, but these two should put their heads together and get you a brand new working machine if they can't fix the problem. These things are not cheap and our lives depend on them. When you have no insurance paying for them and they don't work, this is the utmost of nightmares to have the seller AND the manufacturer giving you a hard time.

I feel for you, sthnreb, I really do. I wish you the best and hope they take care of it once and for all. But then what will you do to occupy your time???