A real Lemon!

Greetings sthnreb,

We do not control the warranty policy of Respironics. However, we have been held accountable for it in your opinion, your filings to the Better Business Bureau, your charge back and your posts here on cpaptalk.com.

cpaptalk.com is a support forum, not the place for customer support. We are open from 8am - 10pm to service those issues. We have done our best to reach out to you and assist you and will continue to do so. Yet, our attempts to help you seem to turn up as "evidence" against us on boards we sponsor. We wanted to speak with you directly, not through a public medium. You have chosen to air a repair issue between our company and yourself, so my reply to your issue will be public as well - so that there can be no doubt of our policy or our fairness in dealing with you.

We have gone the extra mile with you and have done nothing wrong by you.
We agree to the warranty policy of the manufacturer when we ship machines, as you do when you buy machines. We intend to honor our side of the bargin, meaning we'll accept repairs and forward them on to Respironics. Respironics is the entity that decides if the machine should be repaired or a refurbished unit offered.

It is Respironics' repair policy not to provide new machines. We can not please you because we can not alter the policy of an entity we do not control and are unwilling to set a precedent of rolling over when a customer feels they are entitled to something that is no where in the terms of our exchange. Such a precedent would cause higher prices for all for the benefit of the few and we are unwilling to allow it in our business. Our prices will remain low and our dealings with every customer equal and fair.

Our goal is to please every customer, but we are put in an impossible situation. We will gladly issue you an RMA number and return your machine to Respironics for repair. Any dealer in America abides by the same uniform Respironics return policy, but I doubt many would have gone the distances we have to please you. Despite all of this, I am truly sorry that we have not.

Johnny

I purchased a bipap pro about 4 years ago from cpap.com. It still works fine and I've never had a problem with it. I understand medicare pays for machines when you are 65. Well, I have about 5 more years for that. Since my bipap pro is out of warranty, I figured to buy this bipap pro 2 with a heated humidifier while my Rx was still good. Sleep test here run around $1200-1800. I had a lifttime amount for OSA and that has been spent on sleep test, 2 test. So, machines are out of pocket for me. I got this one so I could use the out of warranty bipap pro as a backup so I would make it to medicare time. You see all the problems with it. I do have time as I am retired. The machines have made a major difference in my sleep. I could not go without one now. Believe me, it is no thrill trying to get it running properly. I feel more like just trying to buy a new one and giving up. If I knew the answers to some of your questions I would surely do them. That was my reason for the posting. I can only report my viewpoint on the matter and hope someone in authority will do something to set it right. I can't "make" anyone do anything. I can keep returning the machine for repairs until the warranty expires.

This thread is a huge waste of time and should be taken down. As so many good posters have written, the machine is easily repaired and should be sent to the supplier. This is the only way the situation will be resolved. Sthnreb has problems none other than God can resolve.

"A rumor without a leg to stand on will get around some other way." John Tudor

MM

I thought he said he did send it back and they didn't repair it and it still does it? Maybe if they made him a promise that if they repaired it again and it still didn't fix the problem, THEN they would provide him with a new machine? Doesn't that sound fair to you? I know I would be upset if I paid almost $1,600 for a machine that didn't work, got repaired, still didn't work and I'm stuck with it. I do think I would let them take one last crack at repair IF they promised to replace it if they didn't fix it this time. What do you think?

STHNREB, I hate to be critical, but I just cannot understand the attachment you seem to have for this "new" machine that you bought. Your big issue is that Respironics sends a "refurbished" machine instead of a "new" machine. If Respironics did not inform you that the replacement machine is "refurbished" you would have no idea that it was anything but a "new" machine, in fact no one could. As I understand it, you then get a two year warranty with the new machine, so I just cannot see what the problem is.

In closing, I think that this post clearly shows how far cpap.com will go to provide the best service they can to all their customers. They could have easily elected to delete this post, instead of allowing you to continue to post all your criticisms. All the best to you!

Greetings to you Johnny Goodman,
I try to be honest in anything I have posted on this forum. I have not filed with the BBB as you say. It's an outright lie about me from you in posting that. Shame on you. Someone on the forum suggested I contact my credit card company for help, which I have done with no reply back yet. I only asked them for help is resolving the problem. If you check your company email, you will see I have responded to Adam asking for recommendations. He gave me the impression it was turned over to him to resolve. I still await a response. Why is it I can get such a fast response from you here and not through emails? It can be kept strictly through email and phone if you are sincere in a solution. I have no problem posting what an excellent job someone does in customer service. I started here because the machine is defective. Respironics had an opportunity to repair it once so far. I have emailed Respironics asking them to contact you and make it right. What else am I expected to do in your opinion other than continued returns? I don't understand the extra mile you speak of. Honoring the warranty? I realize Mr. Goodman called me and I appreciate that jester and have acknowledged it. We can end this thread now and I can simply return it after I get your RMA and we can go the same route again. If someone wants to call to discuss it, that is fine too...or a response to my email. I am completely open to any suggestion to get a working machine. It is my health, no one elses. I am sorry you are upset that this is posted for all to see. Perhaps it is in error on my part but if it helps one person it is good. Many have asked, when one is returned for repairs, why is the warranty not extended like a refurbished? Why is it almost impossible to get answers from you to solve a problem? I'm still trying to figure what the extra mile you proclaim you went was. Please explain for all to see here, along with me.

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics

capt,

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm the only one thinking this way. But if I spent $1,600 for a new machine and the solution was to give me a refurbished one, I wouldn't be so willing to do that, either. If they can fix it, great. But if not, give the poor man what he paid almost $2k for. If he wanted to be a used machine in the first place, it would have cost him far less on an auction of some kind. But he chose to buy new and now he's stuck with something that keeps breaking or to accept a rebuilt.

Yes, I agree, let them try one more time and if they can't fix it for good, they should give him a new machine, not a refurbished one. If they want to give him a used machine, then refund the difference from what the cost of the one he paid for new is from what the cost of a used rebuilt one would be. I can understand his reluctance to accept used when he paid for new. Am I so off base here? If so, I can't see it.

And don't get me wrong. I love cpap.com. I have NEVER had a bad moment with their customer service. I would order from then again when I need something. Usually my insurance, though, covers it all and they don't deal with this site. When I buy out of pocket, this is where I go. I don't even shop around. I just feel bad when someone spends so much of their money out of pocket for something that hasn't worked right from the beginning and the company's solution is, give him a rebuilt machine for his $1,600. Something just doesn't sit right with that by me.

[quote="capt"]STHNREB, I hate to be critical, but I just cannot understand the attachment you seem to have for this "new" machine that you bought. Your big issue is that Respironics sends a "refurbished" machine instead of a "new" machine. If Respironics did not inform you that the replacement machine is "refurbished" you would have no idea that it was anything but a "new" machine, in fact no one could. As I understand it, you then get a two year warranty with the new machine, so I just cannot see what the problem is.

In closing, I think that this post clearly shows how far cpap.com will go to provide the best service they can to all their customers. They could have easily elected to delete this post, instead of allowing you to continue to post all your criticisms. All the best to you!

Thank you Capt for your response. However, you are confusing two different issues, the first return and the problem now. On the first return, Cpap said I have the option of repair of mine, which would take approximately one month or a refurbished. Since my machine was barely a month old and I would lose only 1-2 months of warranty, I chose to have mine repaired. However, in the meantime, Respironics emailed me and offered me a new machine that failed out of the box. This was considered refurbished, but was a new machine that was never used. Naturally, I accepted this offer, but I never received it. My old machine was returned to Cpap as that was what they had told them to do and was forwarded on to me. I have to add, they did send it overnite shipment too, which I appreciated and I do thank them for that. I never understood really why the failed machine was not sent Respironics offered. When I first purchased this machine, I was told it should last at least 10 years. If you go to swapping it for one that may be 2-3 years old refurbished, you are cutting life off the machine. I know, that is no big deal in some peoples opinion because it has the 2 yr warranty. In either case, one is stuck after the warranty expires and in my case before it expired if I have to keep returning it. I hope this cleared up some misunderstanding issues for you. I think Cpap is a good company myself and understand they are bound by Respironics rules, but that doesn't help me with my problem of repair.

Sleepless on LI wrote:MM

I thought he said he did send it back and they didn't repair it and it still does it? Maybe if they made him a promise that if they repaired it again and it still didn't fix the problem, THEN they would provide him with a new machine? Doesn't that sound fair to you? I know I would be upset if I paid almost $1,600 for a machine that didn't work, got repaired, still didn't work and I'm stuck with it. I do think I would let them take one last crack at repair IF they promised to replace it if they didn't fix it this time. What do you think?

I think I would accept that in a heartbeat. Will they offer that??

I think I would accept that in a heartbeat. Will they offer that??

Maybe you could ask them if they would agree to that? I thought I had a good suggestion there. Shows a compromise on your part and theirs. I would think that's a fair deal as it's a concession from both sides. And it would really make them want to fix it as they are not very willing to give out new machines.

Reb,

It seems to me you are now asking Respironics directly for a new bipap? I am not following your logic.

Say you buy an expensive car... go in debt up to your eyeballs, and it has a problem in the first month. Do you drive down to the dealership and demand a new one? No.

You get this car back, a month later it does the same thing. Do you go to the dealership and demand a new car? No... You get it repaired again. You never get a new car out of the deal.. They dont do that.

From what I understand, you have sent the machine in once only? You didn't give Respironics the benefit of the doubt and let them fix it again? There aren't many parts in the entire machine. If they replaced a board or a motor, it could very well take care of this no big deal.. You get your machine that you have used and be done with it. It seems that you have not sent this back, you just complained here. Why? You have another bipap at home. Why don't you send it to Respironics via cpap.com? That doesn't seem so hard to do.

Does it?

sleepycheese

You get this car back, a month later it does the same thing. Do you go to the dealership and demand a new car? No... You get it repaired again. You never get a new car out of the deal.. They dont do that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they do since they instated the Lemon Law. If they repair the same problem three times and it's still doing the same thing, actually they do give you a new car. Anyone out there know otherwise?

[quote="Anonymous"]Reb,

It seems to me you are now asking Respironics directly for a new bipap? I am not following your logic.

Say you buy an expensive car... go in debt up to your eyeballs, and it has a problem in the first month. Do you drive down to the dealership and demand a new one? No.

You get this car back, a month later it does the same thing. Do you go to the dealership and demand a new car? No... You get it repaired again. You never get a new car out of the deal.. They dont do that.

From what I understand, you have sent the machine in once only? You didn't give Respironics the benefit of the doubt and let them fix it again? There aren't many parts in the entire machine. If they replaced a board or a motor, it could very well take care of this no big deal.. You get your machine that you have used and be done with it. It seems that you have not sent this back, you just complained here. Why? You have another bipap at home. Why don't you send it to Respironics via cpap.com? That doesn't seem so hard to do.

Does it?

sleepycheese

First off, you must live in a state that doesn't have a lemon law? Georgia does, relating to automobiles. 3 shots at the same repair and they are out. They have to return your money or replace the car. It has only been sent in once so far. It failed from the start but I didn't realize it. So, it took me about 6 weeks of questions and answers trying to figure it out plus getting an RMA. At first they said it would be replaced with new and even sent me a tracking number. Later, I was told Respironics changed their policy and they would not be replacing it. I was in contact with Respironics after that. Mine was supposedly repaired after 3 weeks or so and I have had it back about 3 months, in which time it seemed to run fine. Until this last Tuesday when I was wide awake and using it and it completely stopped, went to standby. The auto on feature started it back up. Moving on, no, I haven't returned it the second time yet as I seek some assurance it will be repaired and not continually returned until the 2 years expire. After all, it is only 6 months old now and I have only gotten 3 months use. Every week makes it older. I suppose my only option is to return it over and over for the 2 years. That is what the Warranty to cpap implies from Respironics. You would think a multi million dollar company would back their medical supplies which is under FDA control better if only for PR. But I guess they don't, the $$$ is most important today..grab it and run. As soon as I can get a response from cpap I will make arrangements for return. They do not accept items without RMA numbers and I have not heard back from them concerning one. Thanks for your suggestions.

"You get your machine that you have used and be done with it." That statement is doubtful. Like I have said...I am waiting on their response for RMA. I also think they should tack anytime in shop and transit back onto the warranty.

I think the only real Lemon here is sthnreb. Sthnreb are living up to your name.

I'm trying to make sense of this but I don't see the problem other than you want more done that the warranty covers. The lemon is you, you want more than the warranty covers. Plus you think that if you post here you will get what you want. I think it is ridiculous where you have allowed and taken this discussion. You seem to act very innocent and play the poor me routine quite well: "I can only report my viewpoint on the matter and hope someone in authority will do something to set it right." Isn't fixing the machine no matter what the problem is right? Just because Respiroinics or cpap.com will not give you a new machine you think that they are in the wrong? How is that at all fair? Plus you act like you get along and are working with cpap.com and Respironics but in the same thread, not even in private you say that you are trying to dispute the credit card charges. How is that working to get your problem resolved? This thread is no different. You say, "I think Cpap is a good company myself and understand they are bound by Respironics rules, but that doesn't help me with my problem of repair." So you just keep hammering away, looking for some higher authority to side with you or cave just to shut you up.

You made a big purchase but that does not mean just because you are no longer happy that you should threaten or take action like trying to get your credit card company to dispute the charges.

You bought a machine that cost a lot of money but it came with a 2 year warranty, thankfully. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean no matter how many times it breaks, at anytime in the warranty period, it will be repaired at no charge? Plus Respironics gives you an option to get a replacement machine, which is refurbished, also at no charge that has a new 2 year warranty? So what is your problem? You are covered right? Where would you be without a warranty? Obviously complaining and trying to get your money back from the credit card company anyways.

I hope everyone who reads this really see you for what you are. Simply a person who is going to try and do everything they can to get what they want no matter what. You give consumers who operate within warranties and guidelines of the purchase they make a bad name. Call cpap.com, get your RMA and quit posting. Don't even respond to my post just get your business done and get the machine fixed under the warranty.

Sincerely,

Tired of this lemon poster!

As I understand it - may be way wrong...the chronology sure can be confusing...

Respironics is the one that changed the rules in midstream, no? Respironics changed their policy about replacing a faulty machine with a new one in the first 30 days? That "change in policy" happening while sthnreb and cpap.com were talking to each other initially trying to troubleshoot the problem? A problem sthnreb had already reported within that first 30 days to cpap.com?

If that was the case (again, I could be wrong...it's been hard to follow) it looks like Respironics should step up to the plate and honor the policy they had in effect at the time sthnreb bought the machine - replacing it with a new machine.

If the problem began in the first 30 days and has recurred after the first repair to a piece of medical equipment and if Respironics won't honor their original 30 day policy of offering a brandnew replacement machine as one of the choices, I still say "For shame."

I think Johnny Goodman, MaskedMechanic, and anyone else working for cpap.com ought to be directing harsh words toward Respironics rather than toward sthnreb.