A real Lemon!

chrisp · Post by **chrisp** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:04 pm

Make your complaint here to the FDA. http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders ... l#products

Also here to the comsumer product safety commission.

http://www.cpsc.gov/

It really works. I complained about a problem with brakes on my car . Dealer hastled me. Once the cpsc got involved they begged me to take it in so they could fix the problem. You see they don't want a recall. LOL

:twis ted:

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:54 pm

You're all really going to love this:
According to this Respironics Bipap Pro User Manualthe Auto-off or on is controled by the... home health provider!

sthnreb - I want to make a suggestion based on something that happened to someone on another forum: make sure all the electric cables are properly plugged in on both sides. This person reported a respironics machine switching on and off like that - and then discovered the plug was half pulled out, connecting and disconnecting at its own discretion.

O.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:02 am

[quote="ozij"]You're all really going to love this:
According to this Respironics Bipap Pro User Manual/[/url] the Auto-off or on is controled by the... home health provider!

sthnreb - I want to make a suggestion based on something that happened to someone on another forum: make sure all the electric cables are properly plugged in on both sides. This person reported a respironics machine switching on and off like that - and then discovered the plug was half pulled out, connecting and disconnecting at its own discretion.

O.

sthnreb1 · Post by **sthnreb1** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:59 am

[quote="ozij"]You're all really going to love this:
According to this Respironics Bipap Pro User Manualthe Auto-off or on is controled by the... home health provider!

sthnreb - I want to make a suggestion based on something that happened to someone on another forum: make sure all the electric cables are properly plugged in on both sides. This person reported a respironics machine switching on and off like that - and then discovered the plug was half pulled out, connecting and disconnecting at its own discretion.

O.

How is it controlled by the home health provider? I have the service providers manual that came with the machine. Looking in it, I see no where to turn off the auto on feature. About the plugs, I went through that when I had problems the first time when it was 1 month old. I always make sure the connections are good now. They were good the first time to. There are no other plugs near I could use. I had this plug put there expecially for the bipap machine. I do not have trouble with electrical breakers or power problems that could cause the machine to go off. When it recently stopped, the first thing I looked for was a power failure, which there wasn't. After trying to figure out why the machine was off, it came back on because I was still trying to breathe into the mask. This triggered the auto on feature and it came back on. So, to this point, I cannot figure why it just stops. That was the same problem when I first go it new and was supposed to be repaired with a new circuit board. Since it has done it again, it is either another bad circuit board or that was not the problem to begin with. Or, something is causing the circuit board to go bad. Problem is, I bought a machine that is supposed to work as they advertise. Am I the one to try and trouble-shoot it and repair it? Sure looks that way.

Sleepless on LI · Post by **Sleepless on LI** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:13 am

Just a wild and crazy thought. Is it possible that the electrical outlet you had installed for the machine has a problem? Maybe you could have whoever installed it come back and check? Or another way to make sure it's not the outlet would be to run an extension cord from another outlet that doesn't have something attached to it that is having a problem and connect the machine to that and see if it still shuts off by itself.

Just, as I said, a wild and crazy thought.

ozij · Post by **ozij** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:32 am

How is it controlled by the home health provider?

I'm sorry I can't help you with that. The user's manual on the net doesn't say how to do it

O.

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:46 pm

I retired from construction after 35 years, so I am 99-9/10 % sure there is nothing wrong with the outlet. Keep in mind, it is not a stop and go. Since it has been repaired, it has only stopped this one time. That is enough for me to lose confidence in it though. When I lay down, I anticipate it maybe going off again when I least expect it, possilble causing me to choke for lack of air. It did seem to run all night last night. But, when will it stop again??

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:18 pm

If you could hook it up to a UPS, that would eliminate any questions about power bumps and related issues. If it occurred again, you would KNOW it was in the machine.

DW

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:34 pm

Problem is, I bought a machine that is supposed to work as they advertise. Am I the one to try and trouble-shoot it and repair it?

Other than making sure it's plugged in firmly (which you have been checking all along) NO, I don't think you should be the one to have to trouble-shoot/repair it at all. I think Respironics should have replaced the machine to begin with. They certainly should replace it now with a brand new machine via whatever store you bought it from.

Just my opinion.

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:53 pm

rested gal wrote:
Problem is, I bought a machine that is supposed to work as they advertise. Am I the one to try and trouble-shoot it and repair it?
Other than making sure it's plugged in firmly (which you have been checking all along) NO, I don't think you should be the one to have to trouble-shoot/repair it at all. I think Respironics should have replaced the machine to begin with. They certainly should replace it now with a brand new machine via whatever store you bought it from.

Just my opinion.

I have a UPS for it. The facts from Respironics is that it pulls about 80 watts so I have an appropriate UPS backup. I've put the mask on, turned the machine on, and then unplugged the power supply. The machine keeps running so it isn't my power outlet or circuit or spikes. (The UPS beeps until power is restored too.)

I purchased it from cpap. They say they can only do what Respironics says. I understand they don't sell used merchandise, on this site anyway, and they don't want to make it good unless Respironics replaces it for them. They buy wholesale from Respironics and sell to end users for a profit. Only problem is Respironics doesn't warranty the machine to the end user but to cpap. Therefore, you have to go through them for repairs and warranty service. If they shut down, so does the warranty. It becomes very difficult trying to get someone to do something about a "lemon" or faulty merchandise. It becomes a pass the buck thing. That was why my original question, "What to do with a lemon?" At this point, a machine I can rely on is what I need. I do think it should be replaced with new and start all over. If this is a common problem with Respironics, then the FDA should intervene. I did file with them as suggested earlier. I appreciate all the comments, help and support. Thanks.

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): respironics, CPAP

capt · Post by **capt** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:19 pm

As I understand the present situation, you have contacted cpap.com? When do they want you to send the machine back to them? Right now you really do not know how Respironics wants to resolve your problem? As long as Respironics replaced my machine with one that worked, and it included a new 2 year warranty, starting from when I got the new machine, I would accept it. For me it would be worth it to stop the frustration, worry and lack of proper treatment. I have bought many types of refurbished equipment, and my experience was that I could not tell that it was not new.

rested gal · Post by **rested gal** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:29 pm

As long as Respironics replaced my machine with one that worked, and it included a new 2 year warranty, starting from when I got the new machine, I would accept it. For me it would be worth it to stop the frustration, worry and lack of proper treatment. I have bought many types of refurbished equipment, and my experience was that I could not tell that it was not new.

I'd be the same way as you, capt. I've bought many refurbished this-and-thats and been very happy with them.

However, I can see where after a person has bought something new and expensive, the way sthrnreb did, and it went bad in the first two or three months -- especially a medical equipment machine that's supposed to be reliable for a number of years -- I can see where he would want (and should have, imho) a brand new replacement for a "lemon" BiPAP machine.

I guess a company will never know how many sales they miss by treating someone the way they are treating sthrnreb, even if the company is hanging its hat on something in the "fine print". Doesn't really matter to them, I suppose, if the profits are high anyway. Shame on Respironics.

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:37 pm

[quote="capt"]As I understand the present situation, you have contacted cpap.com? When do they want you to send the machine back to them? Right now you really do not know how Respironics wants to resolve your problem? As long as Respironics replaced my machine with one that worked, and it included a new 2 year warranty, starting from when I got the new machine, I would accept it. For me it would be worth it to stop the frustration, worry and lack of proper treatment. I have bought many types of refurbished equipment, and my experience was that I could not tell that it was not new.
Yes, I contacted them. Mr. Goodman said turn the auto on off and the auto off off. The auto off was already off. I cannot find anywhere to turn the auto on to off. I sent cpap 2 emails with no response to either concerning this. Mr. Goodman is the one that said to do this. Perhaps he just meant to turn the auto disconnect off? I guess other than that, it is just a wait and see thing. See if it quits again. Once is enough for me. Answers to questions: 1.) Yes, I sent email and Mr. Goodman called me back. 2.) They did not say to send the machine back. 3.) No, Respironics 3 months back said they repaired it with a new circuit board. 4.) Currently any working machine is acceptable. However, since I bought it new at a premium price and it has never worked right, I prefer new. That was what I purchased. Substituting used for new is surely not going to last as long. Since it is all out of pocket for me, I think I should have got what I paid for. Again, using a auto as an example. If you purchased a lemon new and keep it in the shop most of the time and only had 2000-3000 miles on it, would you want it replaced with a used or demo with 35,000 miles and maybe cigarette holes in the seat or dings and scratches? Especially if you were afraid to drive it for fear it would break down and leave you stranded?
So, assume I can get a refurbished replacement. If it stops to, then I am told well, you had a used (refurbished) to begin with. All I want is one that works and can get me 5 years until I hear medi care pays for them.

sthnreb · Post by **sthnreb** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:19 pm

chrisp wrote:Make your complaint here to the FDA. http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders ... l#products

Also here to the comsumer product safety commission.

http://www.cpsc.gov/

It really works. I complained about a problem with brakes on my car . Dealer hastled me. Once the cpsc got involved they begged me to take it in so they could fix the problem. You see they don't want a recall. LOL

:twis ted:

IMPORTANT: CPSC does not have jurisdiction over the following (use the links below to file a complaint with the proper agency): Foods, medicines, cosmetics, and medical devices

capt · Post by **capt** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:10 pm

My post is purely from my perspective. I would insist that with whatever replacement I got, that it comes with a new two year product warranty from Respironics. The problem is that Respironics controls the warranty and repair, not cpap.com. I clearly understand your position, but I personally could not take on the stress at this time, and risk the loss of treatment. If the replacement was defective, then I would have no choice, but right now with what you have stated, I think there is a choice that is worth taking. It is up to you though. I think I covered all the legal things that you should do, and I wish you well.

Machine

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