A real Lemon!

[quote="capt"]My post is purely from my perspective. I would insist that with whatever replacement I got, that it comes with a new two year product warranty from Respironics. The problem is that Respironics controls the warranty and repair, not cpap.com. I clearly understand your position, but I personally could not take on the stress at this time, and risk the loss of treatment. If the replacement was defective, then I would have no choice, but right now with what you have stated, I think there is a choice that is worth taking. It is up to you though. I think I covered all the legal things that you should do, and I wish you well.

I appreciate the input too. You are right as to who controls the warranty, but cpap can apply pressure to them to replace it new because it was not repaired to start with. Backing up, had I got it to them the first time 15 days earlier, it would have been under their terms of replacing it with a new one to begin with. But we were going round about it being returned and what was wrong with it. By the time it was returned, they had changed the rules to not replacing one over 30 days old with new, but refurbished or repair. I was unaware of that or I could have gotten it back within the 30 days. I thought 2 years warranty meant 2 years, not 30 days and was never told to be replaced it had to be returned within 30 days. They probably delayed the RMA so it would go over 30 days. I always use a UPS backup too, even for my computers.
I used it last night and it did not stop. All I know is if it stops again, package it up and send back regardless of what they decide. Once again, thanks.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/

Is this where you filed your complaint ?

:twis ted:

Yes, that was where it was filed.

Good luck with your struggle, reb.

I'd probably be right where you are right now... wondering why I can't get a machine that works.

If cpap.com offers another machine that works and will give you a warranty then that seems "square" to me.

Although I've yet to buy anything from cpap.com I've yet to hear of a situation like this regarding them. I would hope that cpap.com would make it right as they are the customer of Respironics and could simply refuse to sell the product anymore.

Please keep us posted and again, good luck.

PS: If you paid with a credit card then you may have options via your credit card company. I'd get them involved if necessary.

It's amazing what your credit card company can do for you. Believe me, they've got more pull with retailers than you'd think. You could send the machine back, have the charges reversed and simply buy another one elsewhere .

For anyone that has followed this, it hasn't stopped again in the last 2 days, yet. Cpap finally answered my question about how to turn the auto on to off. "I looked through the manuals and agree it is not clear
about Auto on/off feature. So I called Respironics
and asked them. They explained the Auto On part of
this feature cannot be turned off." This was cpap's reply. They also replied, "Now why is your machine stopping? Is this a fluke?
We have no way of knowing." When it did stop, did
you get up and verify the machine was turned off with
no power or did it start blowing after a few breaths?
I think it takes 3 for the machine to turn itself on.
Other than not feeling any air blowing, did you verify
any other way that it was turned off? Let us know if you want to continue monitoring the machine or if you would like Respironics to look it
over again." If a machine was blowing and the blower stops, what other proof does one need to know it is not working? Unplug it from the outlet to see if it comes back on? Add more water to the humidifier? Turn it on manually? Go to the bathroom again and come back and try again all over? If you are driving down the road in a car and it stops running, do you open the hood to see if the motor is still running or can you tell from inside when the a/c stops, etc? Does one stick his hand in the fan to see if it is turning? Check the oil to see how hi it is on the stick? Try the radio? Well, I may be ignert (ignorant), but I could tell the machine stopped.
I haven't contacted my credit card company as of yet but it looks as though the only option is to return it again and have Respironics "LOOK" at it. Their motto is if you snooze you loose so I guess I won't get any snooze with no machine functioning. No other offers from the email. I hope they sleep well.

I'm looking for a new CPAP and was considering the Auto machines... but this post has convinced me it isn't worth it.. And I'm not sure Respironics would be on my list now either.

kathyo wrote:
I'm looking for a new CPAP and was considering the Auto machines... but this post has convinced me it isn't worth it.. And I'm not sure Respironics would be on my list now either.

Hi kathyo, these are my personal experiences with both cpap and Respironics. There are probably many that praise them also. I don't see them standing by and replacing this one with a new one as they should but going strictly by their ever changing policies. The only recourse for me thus far is to continue returning this machine every time it fails until the 2 year warrant expires. Then, I would be forced to pay for repairs or buy a new one. I paid $1569 for it out of pocket and 2 weeks later it dropped to $1499 and 3 weeks later mine began stopping. I was to little to late as they stopped replacing them at this time after 30 days. Good luck in finding a suitable machine and a warranty.

Call your credit card company, Reb. Don't put it off any longer else you find yourself outside the window of opportunity there, too.

This thread is probably costing CPAP.com more money than the cost of replacing your machine. One thing is to blame Respironics.. but ultimately, CPAP.COM has the power to make things right regardless of what Respironics does.

It would be interesting to hear their (CPAP.COM) side of this story at this point.

Don't wait, Reb. Call that CC company!

I have escalated this issue to the appropriate parties in our company for further assistance. They will respond as soon as I have any additional information concerning this matter. Thank you for your patience.

That was my credit cards response, so I am waiting to hear from them.
I agree with you. I deal with cpap and it is their responsibility to deal with Respironics. Especically since Respironics does not deal with end user. Actually one is not left with many options. So far I have been fortunate that it has not stopped again. Because of the previous experiance, I am sure it will, it's just a matter of time. Cpap seems to want to help but doesn't want to get off the cost or replacement. I guess they prefer negative publicity to replacement and coming down on Respironics for faulty machines. They ask what would they do with the used machine since they don't sell used machines. Well, I am quite sure they don't stack them in a corner. They either sell them through ebay or some other outlet to regain their cost. All I can do is continue to post and contact people for help. When it stops again, I will be ready to do what ever necessary to correct the problem immediately. Hopefully it won't stop again, but that is highly unlikely and myself and them both know that. Thanks for the help and support.

Sorry, buddy, but I think you are being unreasonable.

You are the one who wants to change the rules in the middle of the game.

They sold you a product, it worked. When it had a problem you decided that they should do something different than they had agreed to, when they sold it to you.

They (CPAP.com) doesn't guarantee it. They merely sold you a machine that came with a guarantee from someone else. It isn't their responsibility to you. They have agreed to do exactly what they agreed to as a retailer. They have done everything they should, you are the one who isn't being reasonable.

Give the company a chance to fix it.

Sometimes things break, and that is what the warrantee is for. To fix it. Get real.

CPAP.com is still my place to do business

I think you are an jerk for using this board to badmouth them, since they sponsor it.

[quote="MartiniLover"]Sorry, buddy, but I think you are being unreasonable.

You are the one who wants to change the rules in the middle of the game.

They sold you a product, it worked. When it had a problem you decided that they should do something different than they had agreed to, when they sold it to you.

They (CPAP.com) doesn't guarantee it. They merely sold you a machine that came with a guarantee from someone else. It isn't their responsibility to you. They have agreed to do exactly what they agreed to as a retailer. They have done everything they should, you are the one who isn't being reasonable.

Give the company a chance to fix it.

Sometimes things break, and that is what the warrantee is for. To fix it. Get real.

CPAP.com is still my place to do business

I think you are an jerk for using this board to badmouth them, since they sponsor it.


Opinions are like that, A**holes, everyone has one. Thus everyone is entitled to their own. I've never made any attempt to change any rules. All I ask is mine be repaired, which they evidently can't do since they had it for 3 weeks and said it was repaired. Evidently you have no idea of the conception of a lemon product.
1) I've never asked them to do anything beyond the warranty as you state.
2) Since the machine was purchased from them, it becomes their responsibility to warranty the machine. My money was paid to them, not Respironics. Respironics doesn't deal with end users, therefore it becomes cpap's, the seller, who is responsible ultimately and has to deal with Respironics. If Respironics warranteed the machine to me, I may agree with you, but they don't.
3) "They sold you a product, it worked." You are incorrect. It did not work, that was why I returned it to begin with. They had every opportunity to fix it, they had it 3 weeks. It has the same problem now as then and it is about 6 months old. So, how do you figure they had no chance to fix it? It has never worked right since I've had it. I reject continually sending a machine back and forth until the warranty expires. Now is the time to correct it, not when the warranty expires. The longer it takes, the harder it becomes.
4) What is your job with cpap? Only an employee would make such nasty statement and name calling as you. I think everyone that has read the thread, obviouly you haven't, can see who the real jerk is.
5) The best place to post is on this board. I would think cpap would appreciate it. Unless they are really out to beat someone as you suggest. Postive as well and negative should be brought out here, that's what it is for. Crawl back and have another Martini. You musta had several already.

sthnreb,

I made a suggestion the other day that you get a UPS and plug that machine into it. Until you do, you can't PROVE that the cause of the problems you're experiencing is in the machine. Have you tried it in a different outlet? Have you purchased the UPS yet? I can't imagine anyone using this therapy and NOT using a UPS to assure that the machine has constant and consistent power. I've seen outlets whose power is "flaky" because of screws and connections becoming loose due to temperature changes from the power going through them. I've also seen power/voltage drips that will still leave the lights on but will not send sufficient voltage to other electronic devices (like a computer) to properly power them (like the hard drives won't spin at the proper RPM's). We don't know how old of a home you're living in and how old the wiring is and/or how "dirty" the power is coming into your place (spikes, dips, drops). THEREFORE, I suggest that before you "badmouth" CPAP.COM any further, you make sure that the problem isn't at your end.....the one that your XPAP plugs into.

Until you can PROVE that the problem is in the machine, I suggest that you "button it up", buster!!!

AND, I'm NOT a CPAP.COM employee!!!

Have a good day....

Den

Hello Mr. Den,
I don't actually feel it necessary to respond to people on this forum detailing my past history along with any proof I may have of malfunctions. I am retired with extensive electrical history and I make every effort to see that my machine gets sufficient power, yes even a back up power source. Did you run a dedicated line for yours as I did mine? I discuss problems with my machine, not professions, home repairs or others on a OSA forum.
How old my home is and my car and wife has nothing to do with a faulty machine. Respironics deemed it faulty when it was returned, also or they would not have attempted to repair it. They did not ask how old my house was, if I used a backup power supply, if I had a dedicated circuit or even if I had a GFCP, which I do. They accepted the fact I said it stopped and they evidently found fault with it also. I don't have to "prove" to you whether or not I take precautions to see I have power or make explanations. Until you can prove you are a medical professional or that you have any other knowledge relating to my machine, accept this as just being courtous in responding you your snide remarks. Until then, the buttons remain open. I don't know why some people take it upon themselves to judge others on the forum, especially not having an idea as to what they are talking about.
1.) A $1569 medical device should sustain any spikes or surges anyway without loss of power. That is why they are medical devices and so expensive.
2.) A person purchasing and using a bipap machine should not be limited to Electricial Engineers or consturction electricians or even Electronics Engineers. Probably many have no idea how the machine works. If it stops and the power is still hot at the socket, all connections are solid, the machine is faulty. It is not up to the end user to try and repair it or trouble shoot it. That is what the warranty guarantees against. This is also a reason to notify the FDA who regulates and monitors medical devices.
3.) Saying this, it should not be up to the end user to trouble shoot and tell Respironics and their retailers (cpap) what is wrong and how to repair a machine. I answered the questions from Mr. John Goodman, the owner of cpap and do not owe you any further explanations.
4.) Cpap being the retailer and the contact for people purchasing from them and the go between the consumer and Respironics is the responsible party. If they close their doors, no ones warranty is any good.
Thank you sir.

sthnreb,

"I don't actually feel it necessary to respond to people on this forum detailing my past history along with any proof I may have of malfunctions."

Well, sir......YOU were the one that started this thread. As you may have noticed from reading other postings to other threads, when some user leaves out information in their posts, other users will ask questions in order to try to help them answer their questions. In your original post you say "It runs and stops for no reason". Obviously, there IS a reason.....WHATEVER it may be. Your original post, in my opinion is just an attempt to "trash" or "bad-mouth" both Respironics and CPAP.COM. You don't really seem to be asking for help....just sympathy and a place to vent your frustrations. You seem to have already made up your mind. Personally, I don't consider a machine that's been back for repairs once or twice, a "lemon". And, from reading the posts in this thread, you have refused viable options to get a different machine. I'm sure your (respiratory) condition didn't develop overnight and if it takes a couple of weeks here and there to satisfy YOUR criteria in fixing this machine, then you should be prepared to accept that. If MY condition had been life-threatening, I'm sure my doctor would have not taken about 4 months to get me in a CPAP. If a person's condition IS life-threatening I think it would be in their best interests to have a backup machine. After all, anything and everything made by man can and will break....in time.

I hope you get the problem with your machine resolved, but I'm sorry that I can't extend any sympathy your way.

Den