Wasting away again in ketogenic-ville

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:But hey what do I know?

not nearly as much as you think you do.

Well then tell it to your state climatologist, because he thinks otherwise ... and NO, I'm not your state climatologist.

well, then, I'm glad to know that the resident *expert* on all matters has pointed out that the recent two years of devastating flooding in Texas is *perfectly normal* and has nothing to do with global warming, oops, climate change.

thank you very much. do you feel better, or would you like to nitpick on any of the other commonly accepted side effects of glo.. climate change that I listed? go ahead, whatever makes you feel superior enough

Well hold on a minute, don't get your panties all in a wad now ...

Ummmm ...

"glad to know that the resident *expert*" ... check.
"recent two years of devastating flooding in Texas is *perfectly normal*" ... check.
"has nothing to do with global warming" ... check.
"oops, climate change" ... check.
"thank you very much" ... check.
"do you feel better" ... check.
"would you like to nitpick" ... check.
"go ahead" ... ummm and check.

Mmmm oky doky, that should take care of it all for now.

DreamStalker wrote:Mmmm oky doky, that should take care of it all for now.

glad to be of service to your ego needs.

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:Mmmm oky doky, that should take care of it all for now.

glad to be of service to your ego needs.

Oh not worry yourself about my needs ... you're the one who needs to prepare for the next cycle.

The positive El Nino Southern Oscillation seems to have run it's course and La Nina phase is now starting and that negative phase will be amplified over the next few years by a positive phase of the Atlantic Multi-Decadal Oscillation (for some beefy Atlantic hurricanes) and an intensified negative phase of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation .... which means your flood fears are over and this fall/winter season you best begin to harvest and store as much extra rainwater as possible in Texas --- it's drought cycle time again, especially starting next year (think 2011 to 2013 repeat and maybe a bit longer). What may help buffer the intensity of the next Dallas(ish) drought a little bit is the decline in the solar cycle but we'll just have to wait and see if that trend continues.

Oh, and climate is not actually my expertise, though it's closely associated with what I do and I use climate data in my work every now and then ... so I do know a little bit about it.

Permaculture people! Do it! Do it now!


... as Arnold would say

jnk... wrote:

mummmz wrote:If you want to lose weight your total caloric intake will need to be less than what you burn. . . .

Fung debunks that tired, disproven, insulting, and mischaracterizing oversimplification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5o0a4p_3U
(Warning: His language is sometimes PG-13)

Interesting talk by Dr. Fung. Most of his principles sound very science based but it looks like a tough diet to me - probably one of the hardest I've seen in decades. I got halfway thru the Obesity Code and flipped to the back of the book. No recipes! WTF.

For those interested in keto and fasting, I came upon a new podcast and I really like it: http://2ketodudes.com/

Two real people trying their best to manage diabetes, health and weight with keto and fasting. They have a good understanding of the science, some interesting guest interviews and keto recipes. They are "in the trenches" so to speak, and I enjoy hearing about them incorporating this into real lives.

Plus, it's refreshing to hear two guys talk together and never mention their penises even once! (I'm sick and tired of shock jock wannabes).

Sir NoddinOff wrote:

jnk... wrote:

mummmz wrote:If you want to lose weight your total caloric intake will need to be less than what you burn. . . .

Fung debunks that tired, disproven, insulting, and mischaracterizing oversimplification: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5o0a4p_3U
(Warning: His language is sometimes PG-13)

Interesting talk by Dr. Fung. Most of his principles sound very science based but it looks like a tough diet to me - probably one of the hardest I've seen in decades. I got halfway thru the Obesity Code and flipped to the back of the book. No recipes! WTF.

Recipes? If you want to learn the "science" of cooking, do a search on Alton Brown .... learn the basics of how to cook and you won't ever need recipes but rather only your imagination.

As for what is a tough diet, that is opinion, not science. From a human evolutionary/anthropologic perspective, today's SAD (Standard American Diet) is actually more extreme, abnormal, and tough on the human body when considering cellular toxicity. The modern western diet is highly glucotoxic and sourced primarily from old fossil fuels whereas the traditional human diet is naturally fresh, nutritious, and sourced from the local environmental conversions of solar radiation.

Yes, Fung's dietary advice is based on sound scientific principles but "tough" is what you make of it. Some would say that sleeping with a pressurized mask all night, every night is tough and yet, we know it's quite doable and really only as tough as each of us want's to make it.

There are ways of eating that make me crave foods that are unhealthy for me, and then there are ways of eating that don't. I prefer don't. For me, finding Fung was finding don't.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

20th century is so primitive ... current technology and scientific understanding of longevity is pushing significantly past the 100 year envelope.

As discussed by Aubrey in the podcast interview link below ...


He looks familiar to the forum ... but no, he's not.

Janknitz wrote:For those interested in keto and fasting, I came upon a new podcast and I really like it: http://2ketodudes.com/

Two real people trying their best to manage diabetes, health and weight with keto and fasting. They have a good understanding of the science, some interesting guest interviews and keto recipes. They are "in the trenches" so to speak, and I enjoy hearing about them incorporating this into real lives.

Plus, it's refreshing to hear two guys talk together and never mention their penises even once! (I'm sick and tired of shock jock wannabes).

Great site Janknitz.

I have been struggling big time recently so hopefully, listening to these podcasts will encourage me to not cheat.

49er

Great site Janknitz.

I have been struggling big time recently so hopefully, listening to these podcasts will encourage me to not cheat.

49er

I use a variety of podcasts, websites and groups to keep me on track. Daily reinforcement. Often there's not much that's new, but just a reminder of where I am to counteract the CICO world.

Janknitz wrote:

Great site Janknitz.

I have been struggling big time recently so hopefully, listening to these podcasts will encourage me to not cheat.

49er

I use a variety of podcasts, websites and groups to keep me on track. Daily reinforcement. Often there's not much that's new, but just a reminder of where I am to counteract the CICO world.

Great advice, thanks.

Thanks guys,

Been off the forum grid for a few days dealing with work stuff.

Regarding the difficulty of the diet, I have really not found it too bad. I followed DreamStalker's advice and my routine is basically this:

- coffee with a bit of cream in the morning (caffeine, fat calories, keeps me going to lunch)

- thermos of beef broth for lunch (always ate at my desk anyway so the 'social' cost of skipping lunch is zero)

- dinner will be something that works as compromise with my wife; many nights have gotten away replacing rice or potatoes with cauliflower or hemp seed (both of which are quite tasty, although hemp seeds are a bit pricy). A couple of nights a week we might eat rice, but I now make sure we buy whole-grain rice and don't go nuts on the quantities like I used to.

- I take a daily multivitamin and a couple of ion supplements

My blood ketones have been as high as 1.8 mmol/L, although if I have a 'cheat' night (wild rice, too much protein) they may go back down as low as 0.6 the next day (or even for a couple of days). From what I understand, this could still be considered mild ketosis. Once in a mad moment of weakness (egged on by my kids on a very hot day) I drank a medium McDonald's milkshake. I felt absolutely horrible for a few hours after - bloated and lethargic. I looked up 'nutrition' info online, to find that this milkshake (strawberry) has almost 100g of sugar. Experiences like this have helped to highlight the choices that are made in selecting foods.

I've had very few issues with hunger, and have enjoyed the freedom from cravings and intense hunger I used to get in my carb-heavy diet. Am down by around 13 pounds now, and if some of it is water that's ok because I feel less 'bloated' than I used to. For some reason my tolerance of heat is a lot better as well - I used to find summertime difficult, generally feeling bloated and overheated in the sun. Now it is pleasant to walk around outside even on the hottest of days. It's possible that some of this is due to a slight decrease in thermogenesis as fewer cravings have probably led to an effortless reduction in total calories.

All in all, I can't say I miss anything. I did have to devote some time to changing my habits and figuring out where/how to buy ingredients, but feel like it was well spent. I also have to remind myself that my cravings used to be so bad that I would sometimes make really bad time management decisions in order to make sure I had a satisfying meal. The same meal would often render me almost useless for most of the afternoon.

One of the few downsides has been that I seem to be going through a period of 'keto breath'. My wife (of course) commented on it wondering if there was some rotten fruit somewhere... of course when she figured out it was me, this was cited as another reason why 'my diet' is unsustainable.

I am told this can be temporary, but if anyone knows of ways to address this I'm all ears (or nose, although I can't smell it myself).

Unsustainable is relative .... unsustainable to your lifespan or hers?

I'd opine that your biggest downside has been the complete lack of support from your wife.

But yeah, the keto urine smell goes away after a while but I don't think the keto breath does.

In fact there are breath ketone meters that measure acetone from your breath.
https://www.ketonix.com/index.php?lang=en

I've been experimenting with 2 cheap alcohol breathalyzers as a cheaper alternative to the Ketonix device ... so far with good results.