Wasting away again in ketogenic-ville

"The Big Fat Surprise" by Nina Teicholz adds an interesting perspective on fat in the diet...

mummmz wrote: Now once you have proper blood sugar control (which will normalize insulin levels), you still need to think about your total calorie consumption. You cannot expect to eat unlimited bacon, or any other fats, and lose weight.

didn't understand a word of the video.... did you?

mummmz wrote:... snip

You cannot expect to eat unlimited bacon, or any other fats, and lose weight.
snip ...

Actually it is indeed possible to eat just bacon and still lose weight. Fats do NOT stimulate insulin and insulin is required in order for the body to store fat. If one eats bacon without the addition of carbs to stimulate insulin secretion, excess fats will simply not be absorbed by the gut and instead be extreted.

However, I would not recommend a bacon only diet for weight loss. It would be best to eat your bacon with avocado and a large bowl of steamed/blanched broccoli or spinach swimming in lemon-garlic butter. But that's just me.

harrisonalley wrote:The ketogenic diet is a tough regime to follow.

I'm trying to get my mom to start the diet. She has severe sleep apnea and follows Tim Ferriss's slow-carb protocol which is a start.

I actually wrote an article about the ketogenic diet: http://www.lifehackersguide.com/ketogenic-diet

What do you guys think?

Should I add a section about anecdotal reports of it helping with sleep apnea?

Nice web site.

Not sure about curing OSA with a ketogenic diet ... it might for some whose OSA is caused by obesity. However not all OSA is caused by obesity as there are plenty of people who are NOT obese and still have OSA.

palerider wrote:

jnk... wrote:

palerider wrote:. . . perhaps you can solve global warming on your break . . .

I was gonna get to that later this afternoon, but I haven't quite wrapped up this Middle East peace thing I'm working on right now. Sorry.

take your time, I think you're working on something tougher than global warming!

The use of the term "global warming" only shows ignorance of the subject. The correct terminology is "climate change" and there is nothing about it that can or should be fixed. It is a normal earth process that began over 3.5 billion years ago when the planet first developed an atmosphere. Climate change is the driving factor behind the evolution of life on this planet and we as a species have evolved to become the most adaptable species to climate change that has ever existed on this planet (and it was not by foolishly trying to control, stop, or reverse climate change).

The middle east issue is nothing more than a distraction to keep the masses from realizing who is in charge of resource distributions around the globe. That issue, unlike climate change, can be solved, controlled, and/or changed if people would simply educate themselves to follow the money .... of course that means they have to first learn what the definition of money is because 99% of the population has no clue what the difference is between money and currency, nor do they understand how money and/or currency become manifest or how money and/or currency must adhere to the laws of thermodynamics (as do all life processes on this planet) in order for money and/or currency to serve their purpose without violence and bloodshed. Sure, it's complicated but certainly quite understandable to the average human mind given a little effort to educate themselves.

Nonetheless, the laws of thermodynamics will be enforced by Mother Nature and our current unsustainable system will self-correct given time according to the second law, or entropy. Are you prepared for the correction? Are you able to grow your own food? Supply your own drinking water? Provide your own shelter, clothing, and security? Belong to a resilient community? Learn permaculture and get yourself on the fast track and you too will be optimized for any environmental adaptations while simultaneously achieving optimal health and longevity ... intelligent design of your own being.

DreamStalker wrote:However, I would not recommend a bacon only diet for weight loss. It would be best to eat your bacon with avocado and a large bowl of steamed/blanched broccoli or spinach swimming in lemon-garlic butter. But that's just me.

mmmm, that sounds delicious.

DreamStalker wrote:

palerider wrote:

jnk... wrote:

palerider wrote:. . . perhaps you can solve global warming on your break . . .

I was gonna get to that later this afternoon, but I haven't quite wrapped up this Middle East peace thing I'm working on right now. Sorry.

take your time, I think you're working on something tougher than global warming!

The use of the term "global warming" only shows ignorance of the subject. The correct terminology is "climate change"

feel free to pull your panties out of your crack at any point that you like, I'm quite aware of the "correct terminology" as well as the effects that global warming is having on the earths climate, here, where we're flooding where it's much more often a drought situation, with coral reefs bleaching and dying, receding ice levels, rising seas, island nations becoming submerged, etc. all resulting from ... what was it... planetary cooling? thermodynamic stasis? no, it must be warming, on a global scale...

perhaps your eminence has never heard of the concept of speaking colloquially with others in a casual manner.

mmmmz said:

I just watched the video and I do agree with it. If you look at my whole post and not just an isolated sentence you can see that I said to eat low carb, moderate protein, and fats. This is exactly what Dr. Fung said. Now once you have proper blood sugar control (which will normalize insulin levels), you still need to think about your total calorie consumption. You cannot expect to eat unlimited bacon, or any other fats, and lose weight.

The operative word here is "unlimited". If I ate 10 lbs of bacon, then I would expect to gain weight, keto or not. But the beauty of a ketogenic diet is that instead of worrying about calories and amounts, I eat to satiety, and because I'm eating plenty of fat and nutrient dense food, that satiety comes pretty quickly and lasts a good long time. There's no way I would eat 10 lbs of bacon. But I don't have to say to myself "I can only have 2 pieces of bacon*. I eat as many as I feel like eating*. Today that may be 3 pieces, or it might be 1 or none on another day.

So when you say "unlimited", you are really saying "there needs to be some restriction on calories" whereas my interpretation of "unlimited" means I don't have to count calories or limit portions, my body will tell me when I've had enough--and it does as long as the food is fat and protein and non-starchy veggies. In other words, there do not have to be external limits, though my body WILL limit what I eat.

I don't "need to think about [my] total calorie consumption" at all. If I was eating a lot of carbs, I certainly would need external limits--I have no "satiety" limit for them. But there IS a limit to the healthy fats, non-starchy veggies, and protein I can consume.

And psychologically, knowing that I can eat to satiety instead of meticulously counting calories or imposing limits when I'm still hungry (dammit!) makes it so much easier to pay attention to my body's satiety signals.


*BTW, I don't eat "real" bacon for religious reasons. But I did in my deep dark past, and I get the appeal. I do eat turkey bacon, but it's not the same.

What do you guys think?

Should I add a section about anecdotal reports of it helping with sleep apnea?

Maybe it's the opposite. My apnea is so severe that until I got on CPAP I couldn't put enough brain cells together to try a ketogenic diet, and the metabolic disruption caused by severe sleep apnea surely interfered with any attempts to lose weight.

My apnea is still severe, I didn't see any great improvement even with a 75lb weight loss (I have a small airway to begin with). But treating that apnea enabled me to have more energy and cognitive clarity, that led me to be able to follow a LCHF diet and perhaps improved my insulin and leptin resistance so it could work for me.

Well said Janknitz. I agree with eating fat and non-starchy veggies to satiety...as long as you know how that feels. Many people think that means feeling stuffed. I would keep protein to a moderate amount though so glucose does not go up (and insulin with it). Many people eating keto do think they can eat ALL the bacon they want. I worked with a woman who thought that and happily ate only bacon for breakfast every day. She couldn't figure out why she couldn't lose weight. Several years later she had lap band surgery and lost a little weight, maybe 25 pounds.

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:

palerider wrote:

jnk... wrote:

palerider wrote:. . . perhaps you can solve global warming on your break . . .

I was gonna get to that later this afternoon, but I haven't quite wrapped up this Middle East peace thing I'm working on right now. Sorry.

take your time, I think you're working on something tougher than global warming!

The use of the term "global warming" only shows ignorance of the subject. The correct terminology is "climate change"

feel free to pull your panties out of your crack at any point that you like, I'm quite aware of the "correct terminology" as well as the effects that global warming is having on the earths climate, here, where we're flooding where it's much more often a drought situation, with coral reefs bleaching and dying, receding ice levels, rising seas, island nations becoming submerged, etc. all resulting from ... what was it... planetary cooling? thermodynamic stasis? no, it must be warming, on a global scale...

perhaps your eminence has never heard of the concept of speaking colloquially with others in a casual manner.

As Popeye might tell you ... ""I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam cuz I mean what I says and I says what I mean" ... but it doesn't matter because as usual, the point flew so "way" over that ring (or is it a crown?) on your head.

And for the record, the climate of Dallas(ish) has been drought to flood and flood to drought cycles for the last 10,000 years or so. But hey what do I know?

Janknitz wrote:mmmmz said:

I just watched the video and I do agree with it. If you look at my whole post and not just an isolated sentence you can see that I said to eat low carb, moderate protein, and fats. This is exactly what Dr. Fung said. Now once you have proper blood sugar control (which will normalize insulin levels), you still need to think about your total calorie consumption. You cannot expect to eat unlimited bacon, or any other fats, and lose weight.

The operative word here is "unlimited". If I ate 10 lbs of bacon, then I would expect to gain weight, keto or not. But the beauty of a ketogenic diet is that instead of worrying about calories and amounts, I eat to satiety, and because I'm eating plenty of fat and nutrient dense food, that satiety comes pretty quickly and lasts a good long time. There's no way I would eat 10 lbs of bacon. But I don't have to say to myself "I can only have 2 pieces of bacon*. I eat as many as I feel like eating*. Today that may be 3 pieces, or it might be 1 or none on another day.

So when you say "unlimited", you are really saying "there needs to be some restriction on calories" whereas my interpretation of "unlimited" means I don't have to count calories or limit portions, my body will tell me when I've had enough--and it does as long as the food is fat and protein and non-starchy veggies. In other words, there do not have to be external limits, though my body WILL limit what I eat.

I don't "need to think about [my] total calorie consumption" at all. If I was eating a lot of carbs, I certainly would need external limits--I have no "satiety" limit for them. But there IS a limit to the healthy fats, non-starchy veggies, and protein I can consume.

And psychologically, knowing that I can eat to satiety instead of meticulously counting calories or imposing limits when I'm still hungry (dammit!) makes it so much easier to pay attention to my body's satiety signals.


*BTW, I don't eat "real" bacon for religious reasons. But I did in my deep dark past, and I get the appeal. I do eat turkey bacon, but it's not the same.

Well if the focus is on the operative word "unlimited" rather than hormonal stimulation by macro-nutrient type, then sure, even an unlimited amount of calorie-free water will make you gain weight and eventually kill you just like consuming an "unlimited" amount of anything. Fact remains that the body requires insulin to store lipids within adipose cells and dietary fat does very little if any to stimulate insulin. But sure, eat what you want ... that's what I do.

DreamStalker wrote:But hey what do I know?

not nearly as much as you think you do.

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:But hey what do I know?

not nearly as much as you think you do.

Well then tell it to your state climatologist, because he thinks otherwise ... and NO, I'm not your state climatologist.

DreamStalker wrote:

palerider wrote:

DreamStalker wrote:But hey what do I know?

not nearly as much as you think you do.

Well then tell it to your state climatologist, because he thinks otherwise ... and NO, I'm not your state climatologist.

well, then, I'm glad to know that the resident *expert* on all matters has pointed out that the recent two years of devastating flooding in Texas is *perfectly normal* and has nothing to do with global warming, oops, climate change.

thank you very much. do you feel better, or would you like to nitpick on any of the other commonly accepted side effects of glo.. climate change that I listed? go ahead, whatever makes you feel superior enough