Five Myths about the Canadian Health Care system from AARP

[mgaggie]

I'm sure there are myths about the aussie health care system too. But overall I think its a good system. Everyone who pays tax is charged a levy for medicare, which if you are under the threshold you can claim back at the end of the year. The government does encourage you to have private health care, but its not compulsory.

[torontoCPAPguy]

Also, please note that ALL health care is triaged. If you are in urgent need you are first in line. I was in urgent need in Dec 2011 and in May 2009. Believe me when I say I was FIRST in line!!!

On the other hand in Dec 2011 (later in the month) I was not in URGENT need and I waited in line while the URGENT cases were taken care of and I was made comfortable.

I will eventually have a catheter ablation for Atrial Fibrillation here (believed to be contributed to by OSA by the way). If I am in Normal Sinus Rhythm when my doctor and I decide to go this route I will not be URGENT and will wait up to 6 - 8 months for care as opposed to the 4 - 6 months I would wait stateside. Difference? In Canada I pay $0. Stateside I pay $130K to $180K and pray that I have very good insurance. I still wait.

One of the greatest assets of these forums is that rapid availability of information from many sources. One of the greatest issues with these forums in the rapid availability of information from many sources. Whatever information you are receiving I say caveat emptor.... trust but verify what you are reading. I have returned to this board after being away a year or so and I have never read so much misinformation in my life. PLEASE take what you read with a grain of salt. I may cost you your life if you do not. Research and do not take suggestions from everyone you hear. Research. Verify. Contemplate. Make a decision.

If I took the data that I read over this weekend as gospel I would not be here today. I would likely be six feet under.

MYTH #1: CANADIANS ARE FLOCKING TO THE USA TO GET MEDICAL CARE

The most comprehensive study on this topic — it employed three different methodologies, all with solid rationales behind them — was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.

How Many Canadians Use the U.S. Health System?

Do not come to the US for care: 99.39%
Come to US for care electively: 0.5%
Use the US for emergency care: 0.11%



MYTH#2: DOCTORS IN CANADA ARE FLOCKING TO THE USA TO PRACTICE

it’s just not so. Consider this :


Physicians Very satisfied and satisfied Practicing Medicine by Nation


89% New Zealand
89% Norway
88% Netherlands
81% United Kingdom
79% Sweden
77% Italy
75% CANADA
76% France
64% UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


Myth #3: CANADA RATIONS HEALTH CARE: THAT'S WHY HIP REPLACEMENTS AND CATARACT SURGERIES HAPPEN FASTER IN THE UNITED STATES

Take Republican Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri, for example. A couple of years ago he took to the House floor to tell his colleagues:

“I just hit 62, and I was just reading that in Canada [if] I got a bad hip I wouldn’t be able to get that hip replacement that [Rep. Dan Lungren] got, because I’m too old! I’m an old geezer now and it’s not worth a government bureaucrat to pay me to get my hip fixed.”

This has been debunked so often, it’s tiring. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch, for example, concluded: “At least 63 percent of hip replacements performed in Canada last year [2008] ... were on patients age 65 or older.” And more than 1,500 of those, it turned out, were on patients over 85.

The bottom line: Canada doesn’t deny hip replacements to older people.

But there’s more.

Know who gets most of the hip replacements in the United States? Older people.

Know who pays for care for older people in the United States? Medicare.

Know what Medicare is? A single-payer system.


Myth #4: CANADA HAS LONG WAIT TIMES BECAUSE IT HAS A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM.

In 1966, Canada implemented a single-payer health care system, which is also known as Medicare. Since then, as a country, Canadians have made a conscious decision to hold down costs. One of the ways they do that is by limiting supply, mostly for elective things, which can create wait times. Their outcomes are otherwise comparable to ours.

Please understand, the wait times could be overcome. Canadians could spend more. They don’t want to. Currently Canada Spends half, per capita, of what the USA spends on health care. We can choose to dislike wait times in principle, but they are a byproduct of Canada’s choice to be fiscally conservative.

Yes, they chose this. In a rational world, those who are concerned about health care costs and what they mean to the economy might respect that course of action. But instead, they attack the system.

Myth #5: CANADA RATIONS HEALTH CARE: THE USA DOES NOT

The truth is, Canada may “ration” by making people wait for some things, but here in the United States we also “ration” — by cost.

An 11-country survey carried out in 2010 by the Commonwealth Fund, a Washington-based health policy foundation, found that adults in the United States are by far the most likely to go without care because of cost.

In fact, 42 percent of the Americans surveyed did not express confidence that they would be able to afford health care if seriously ill.


Further, about a third of the Americans surveyed reported that, in the preceding year, they didn’t go to the doctor when sick, didn’t get recommended care when needed, didn’t fill a prescription or skipped doses of medications because of cost.

Finally, about one in five of the Americans surveyed had struggled to pay or were unable to pay their medical bills in the preceding year. That was more than twice the percentage found in any of the other 10 countries.

And remember: We’re spending way more on health care than any other country, and for all that money we’re getting at best middling results.

So feel free to have a discussion about the relative merits of the U.S. and Canadian health care systems. Just stick to the facts.







http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/go ... are-System

[Not Fade]

However, medical bills still remain the number one reason people in the U S go bankrupt.

THAT was never in dispute.


Den

.

Actually it is in dispute and the study referenced does not cover it adequately. The study was a simple one and the only conclusion it came to, despite headlines and stories to the contrary, was that a large percentage of people filing bankruptcy have medical bills. The study does not offer proof that medical bills are the cause of 60% of personal bankruptcy filings.

Despite headlines and even articles to the contrary, the study was not able to determine that medical bills were the cause of the bankruptcies.

People filing bankruptcies have credit card debt, home equity debt and auto loan debt at higher levels than they have medical cost debt. You could just as easily write the headline on those stories, "(Pick one: Credit Card, Home Equity, Auto Loan) Debt Causes Bankruptcy". You would find a percentage much higher than 60%.

If you look at the methodology of the study you will find that indirect reasons like lost work opportunities and being overextended in other kinds of debt were excluded from consideration in the study. Well heck, if you exclude enough causes of bankruptcy you can get down to the point where you make medical bills look like a major cause of bankruptcy!!!!

By posting parts of articles and links, the pro-Obamacare crowd tries to give the impression that they have the research to back up their claims. But they fail to read, or intentionally leave out, certain information.

Christina LaMontagne, VP of Health at NerdWallet, the company that did the study says,

President Obama’s universal health insurance mandate will not protect Americans from problems with medical bills. Insurance is no silver bullet.

So we are implementing a monstrosity of federal regulations and the problem is not solved!

[49er]

Christina LaMontagne, VP of Health at NerdWallet, the company that did the study says,

President Obama’s universal health insurance mandate will not protect Americans from problems with medical bills. Insurance is no silver bullet.

So we are implementing a monstrosity of federal regulations and the problem is not solved!

I know this is going to shock the anti Obama Care folks but I am actually very concerned about this particularly with older people not eligible for medicare since their rates will be alot higher. As a result, this is the reason I was in favor of single payer system or any program that took the insurance companies out of the equation.

But the chances of that happening are as great my finding about those government programs that are allegedly available that would give me free iphones with luxurious features, a IPAD, a mansion with 9 bedrooms, a Mercedes, a laptop, access to free lobster and steak, enough money to live without working since I am unemployed and access to free sleep studies, pap machines and supplies at free healthcare community clinics.

Yes, I am being sarcastic and snarky so anyone who agrees can save yourself the trouble of calling me on it. I am tired of the hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune. Yes, there are a minority of people who abuse welfare programs but to stereotype everyone as being this way is truly disgusting.

By the way, since the goal of most insurance companies to pay as few benefits as possible, I feel this woman's concern are extremely disingenuous.

49er

[OhHelpMe]

I am tired of the hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune.

And where in this thread do you find "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune"?

Or is that something you just made up in order to make "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people" who have different viewpoints from your own?

[deerhound]

Since you asked for it, as someone who lived 35 Miles from the Canadian line for 25 years and worked for a Canadian Company let me give you a factual perspective you missed, Myth by Myth..

You lost me after this line. I was wondering if you can see Russia from your back yard also??? Self proclaimed expert.

Quoting Tina Fey is supposed to prove your point?

[49er]

I am tired of the hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune.

And where in this thread do you find "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune"?

Or is that something you just made up in order to make "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people" who have different viewpoints from your own?

WoodWorkerJunkie said

If your already on government assistance and receiving any kind of benefit for food, shelter, or unemployment, then you should only have a cell phone with very limited minutes for emergencies and job interviews, drug screening at least once a year, no cable tv and very limited internet service! If your found in violation, you start losing your benefits! If you want a $600 cell phone with unlimited everything or a $100 a month cable package with HBO and Showtime, or a car that's less then 6 years old, do it with your own money, not the tax payers that are out busting their butts every day. But, I guess that would be to much to ask! People seem to think that (able bodied) people that are not willing to work, or think they should only work a 40 hour week, should have the same luxuries of the everyday hard working citizen. WHY? Give them the bare necessities to live and if they want more in life, then that should motivate them to get up and go to work everyday like everyone else, or at least try to improve themselves! When you give people "free stuff", they get lazy and expect more and then start demanding more! Sound familiar! Like striking for $15 an hour to flip hamburgers! I have worked 10 to 14 hours a day for the past 30+ years and barely make $15 an hour! With a helluva lot more responsibility on my back than flipping hamburgers or not burning the fries!

49er

[Bill44133]

Since you asked for it, as someone who lived 35 Miles from the Canadian line for 25 years and worked for a Canadian Company let me give you a factual perspective you missed, Myth by Myth..

You lost me after this line. I was wondering if you can see Russia from your back yard also??? Self proclaimed expert.

Quoting Tina Fey is supposed to prove your point?

Actually, I thought I was quoting Sarah Palin.

[ironhands]

MYTH #1: CANADIANS ARE FLOCKING TO THE USA TO GET MEDICAL CARE

The most comprehensive study on this topic — it employed three different methodologies, all with solid rationales behind them — was published in the peer-reviewed journal Health Affairs.

How Many Canadians Use the U.S. Health System?

Do not come to the US for care: 99.39%
Come to US for care electively: 0.5%
Use the US for emergency care: 0.11%

To get care, not so much, but, many Canadians cross the border for testing, particularly, MRI. There are clinics in border cities, Buffalo and Niagara Falls, as an example, to allow Canadians to speed up testing for an out-of-pocket expense. They frequently advertise on daytime TV. Rely... On Buffalo MRI. They make MRI, easy for yoooouuuuuuuu.

[BlackSpinner]

http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/be ... -countries

USA comes 46th out of 48

[deerhound]

Since you asked for it, as someone who lived 35 Miles from the Canadian line for 25 years and worked for a Canadian Company let me give you a factual perspective you missed, Myth by Myth..

You lost me after this line. I was wondering if you can see Russia from your back yard also??? Self proclaimed expert.

Quoting Tina Fey is supposed to prove your point?

Actually, I thought I was quoting Sarah Palin.

Palin never said that. She said that Russia was a close neighbor. That you can see Russia from land in Alaska. Tina Fey did her skit on Palin and from that point on most Democrat voters thought Palin said she can see Russia from her yard. Fey did an amazing imitation of Palin, but it was unfair of people to judge Palin's intelligence on a comedy skit that was intended to demean her.

[khauser]

Palin never said that. She said that Russia was a close neighbor. That you can see Russia from land in Alaska. Tina Fey did her skit on Palin and from that point on most Democrat voters thought Palin said she can see Russia from her yard. Fey did an amazing imitation of Palin, but it was unfair of people to judge Palin's intelligence on a comedy skit that was intended to demean her.

Absolutely correct. The context of the oft-mis-quoted statement was a question on what Palin gained from being so close to Russia, and like all politicians I've ever seen, she replied with an answer that didn't address the question. In this case (and in many other's) her non-answer did little to boost her credibility, and (obviously) provided the raw material from which Tina Fey crafted that answer.

The original intent of this was humor, but as a country we do a poor job differentiating fact from fiction (as this single thread makes clear). The polarization of America is intentional, and the media helps in many ways, including this one. After all, there was zero need for this to do more than provide humor, but it became REALITY in so many people's minds.

Although the question of where President Obama was born did not originate as a joke, the media was equally responsible for blowing it way out of proportion and using it as another tool to divide us.

You see, as long as the left and the right are divided it is much easier to run a political campaign. It's a lot harder to get anything done, but our government design prioritizes re-election (keeping one's job) over actually doing what the politician's job really is. And in my opinion this will lead to the fall of our country much faster than any extremist left or right policy can ever do.

[BlackSpinner]

Fey did an amazing imitation of Palin, but it was unfair of people to judge Palin's intelligence on a comedy skit that was intended to demean her.

Hard to do that, the skit made her look so much more intelligent!

[deerhound]

Fey did an amazing imitation of Palin, but it was unfair of people to judge Palin's intelligence on a comedy skit that was intended to demean her.

Hard to do that, the skit made her look so much more intelligent!

I always thought it was strange that someone would think that Palin was dumb for something she did not say, and think the President was smart when he actually said he had been to 57 states with one more to go. I'd take Palin any day over Obama in a battle of the minds.

[Wulfman...]

However, medical bills still remain the number one reason people in the U S go bankrupt.

THAT was never in dispute.


Den

.

Actually it is in dispute and the study referenced does not cover it adequately. The study was a simple one and the only conclusion it came to, despite headlines and stories to the contrary, was that a large percentage of people filing bankruptcy have medical bills. The study does not offer proof that medical bills are the cause of 60% of personal bankruptcy filings.

Despite headlines and even articles to the contrary, the study was not able to determine that medical bills were the cause of the bankruptcies.

People filing bankruptcies have credit card debt, home equity debt and auto loan debt at higher levels than they have medical cost debt. You could just as easily write the headline on those stories, "(Pick one: Credit Card, Home Equity, Auto Loan) Debt Causes Bankruptcy". You would find a percentage much higher than 60%.

If you look at the methodology of the study you will find that indirect reasons like lost work opportunities and being overextended in other kinds of debt were excluded from consideration in the study. Well heck, if you exclude enough causes of bankruptcy you can get down to the point where you make medical bills look like a major cause of bankruptcy!!!!

By posting parts of articles and links, the pro-Obamacare crowd tries to give the impression that they have the research to back up their claims. But they fail to read, or intentionally leave out, certain information.

Christina LaMontagne, VP of Health at NerdWallet, the company that did the study says,

President Obama’s universal health insurance mandate will not protect Americans from problems with medical bills. Insurance is no silver bullet.

So we are implementing a monstrosity of federal regulations and the problem is not solved!

If you do Google searches on (variations of) "causes of U S bankruptcies", they will cite medical bills as being the number one cause. However, most of these articles list these other things as contributing factors.
In rereading Judge Nap's post, he didn't dispute it being the #1 reason. He was also listing the other factors. If a person has a sufficient amount of savings, little debt and/or no loss of income, they can probably pay their medical bills. Most hospitals won't come after you if you can show some willingness and ability to pay over time.

With the loss of jobs and full-time employment in the U S, it's going to be hard for people to even pay their premiums. I've been reading some of the newspaper articles from nearby states which have been reporting that the deductibles are also going to be in the thousands of dollars. So, some of the people MAY see a decrease in their premiums but with the deductible being in the thousands of dollars, it's not a huge help.
On top of that, the employers who are limiting the insurance to only the employees and not the family, the costs to cover the other members of the family may run in the thousands of dollars PER MONTH.

So, yes, this is going to be a monstrosity and won't be solving any of the real problems. This law was written by representatives of "Big Pharma" and the insurance industry........and they didn't have any intentions of shooting themselves in the feet.
It's not going to address the "costs" of medical care in any meaningful way. And, it's not going to cover the tens of millions of people who didn't have coverage. It'll pick up some, but the vast numbers will still be left out.


Den

.