Five Myths about the Canadian Health Care system from AARP

Howdy,

CPAP.com is my response and my counter to this line of thought.

I do not understand how enrolling more people into an already broken system will fix it. I do not believe it will.

Johnny

ButtermilkBuoy wrote:Opting out of the Affordable Care Act will be like burning a draft card. Forcing people to do things never works out well, and is counterproductive to promoting personal freedom and peace.

That sounds great in theory ButtermilkBuoy but it is kind of hard to have personal freedom and peace if you're sick and don't have health insurance. I say that as one who has great concerns about ObamaCare who wanted a single payer system like the Canadians have.

49er

johnnygoodman wrote:Howdy,

CPAP.com is my response and my counter to this line of thought.

I do not understand how enrolling more people into an already broken system will fix it. I do not believe it will.

Johnny

Johnny,

What is the alternative Johnny? Continue the status quo and let people continue to die or suffer who don't have health insurance? Or if they are lucky to find an ER that will treat them without having to pay up front, let them go heavily into debt?

The rest of the world seems to have no problem with this issue but the US keeps making excuses as to why it can't be done. It is really getting old.

49er

ButtermilkBuoy wrote:

49er wrote: if you're sick and don't have health insurance.

49er

Are you sick and unable to get medical care?

ButtermilkBuoy, I appreciate the question but this is about 45 plus million people who don't have health insurance which opponents of ObamaCare don't want to address. Again, my point is that people who are sick who don't have health insurance or who have it but still can't get access to care don't have the personal freedom that you think is so desirable.

49er

49er,

1) About 20% of the US population doesn't have "Health Insurance" about 80% does and this 80/20 split, within a percentage point or two, has been stable for more than 40 years. Correct me if I'm wrong, with references please.

2) Also if you would, please research the concept of Diminishing Returns and hazard a guess for us on how this will impact the cost AND quality of the US Health Care system as a whole if we halve that 20% figure to 10%, now do it again and halve it to 5% now do it again to 2.5%.

The point is we'll never reach 100% coverage so tell where we are to stop making heroic efforts. So let's allow you to be our Affordable Care Act Rationing Board for the day and you tell us what multiple of the current GDP that is spent of Health Care works for you, also explain what other segments of the economy are going to be savaged to support your vision, make it realistic now.

I would argue that at 20% we're at the natural health Insurance saturation level.

"The point is we'll never reach 100% coverage"

Why not? Why accept less? Why can so many other countries manage to do it?

rkuntz,

Again, the rest of the world has no problems insuring all their folks at alot less cost than the US. The US could do it if it had the will but sadly doesn't.

Regarding your statistics, many people who have health insurance are still going into medical bankruptcy due to affordable costs which is unheard of in places like Canada. Sadly, I fear Obamacare may not solve this problem which is a whole other post.

Actually, I thought the number of people who don't have health insurance has steadily increased each years. Don't know how that plays out percentage wise.

rkuntz123 wrote:49er,

1) About 20% of the US population doesn't have "Health Insurance" about 80% does and this 80/20 split, within a percentage point or two, has been stable for more than 40 years. Correct me if I'm wrong, with references please.

2) Also if you would, please research the concept of Diminishing Returns and hazard a guess for us on how this will impact the cost AND quality of the US Health Care system as a whole if we halve that 20% figure to 10%, now do it again and halve it to 5% now do it again to 2.5%.

The point is we'll never reach 100% coverage so tell where we are to stop making heroic efforts. So let's allow you to be our Affordable Care Act Rationing Board for the day and you tell us what multiple of the current GDP that is spent of Health Care works for you, also explain what other segments of the economy are going to be savaged to support your vision, make it realistic now.

I would argue that at 20% we're at the natural health Insurance saturation level.

rkuntz123 wrote:Since you asked for it, as someone who lived 35 Miles from the Canadian line for 25 years and worked for a Canadian Company let me give you a factual perspective you missed, Myth by Myth..

You lost me after this line. I was wondering if you can see Russia from your back yard also??? Self proclaimed expert.

rkuntz123 wrote:49er,

1) About 20% of the US population doesn't have "Health Insurance" about 80% does and this 80/20 split, within a percentage point or two, has been stable for more than 40 years. Correct me if I'm wrong, with references please.

2) Also if you would, please research the concept of Diminishing Returns and hazard a guess for us on how this will impact the cost AND quality of the US Health Care system as a whole if we halve that 20% figure to 10%, now do it again and halve it to 5% now do it again to 2.5%.

The point is we'll never reach 100% coverage so tell where we are to stop making heroic efforts. So let's allow you to be our Affordable Care Act Rationing Board for the day and you tell us what multiple of the current GDP that is spent of Health Care works for you, also explain what other segments of the economy are going to be savaged to support your vision, make it realistic now.

I would argue that at 20% we're at the natural health Insurance saturation level.

Pearls before swine.

49er, Yes, given a constant percentage and an increasing population, the number of people who do not have health Insurance increases each year, as does the number of people who do have Health Insurance, at about a 1 to 4 ratio.

Bill, Stop the name calling (Ad Hominem), the original post asked for factual responses, I responded with facts derived from personal experience, with enough personal background that I wouldn't be accused pulling it out of thin air. Let's talk, but stay on topic and use facts.

Here's another little factoid that plays directly into refuting several of the AARP MYTHS that are the subject of this thread. Check out the Heart of America HMO in Rugby, ND population 2900. Heart of America was established in 1978 and opened fitted out with in-house CAT Scan capabilities funded by Canadian traffic referred to them and paid for by the Canadian (actually that of Manitoba since Health Care in Canada is a Provincial matter) Single Payer system. Canadian CAT Scan work was referred to this little town on the prairie because Manitoba pop. 1.2M could only afford two CAT Scanners in the entire province, both of which were located in Winnipeg and were overbooked supporting a population of 700,000. Unfortunately that forced the 400,000 Canadians who lived within 15 miles of the Canadian Border to come to the US for critical need CAT Scan services, as a result northern tier hospitals in Grand Forks, Devils lake, Rugby, Minot and Williston saw a lot of Canadian traffic.

If you think I'm shilling for the US Health Care Insurance industry, think again, I support a Canadian system. Check out the cost of LASIK Sugery in Canada where it is not covered by the Single Payer system vs that in the US. IMO a turn toward open markets and returning Health Insurance to the original Catastrophic Care model used in the US, would do for Health Care costs in the US what an open market has done for LASIK in Canada.

I cant believe I wasted five minutes of my life reading the comments on this stupid thread.

Some people will simply be irrational and obstructionist and there is simply nothing to be done. Some people believe the Holocaust never happened and evolution is a fraud. Whatever.

The ACA and the black president have won. Romney lost, big time. Get over it. It's called democracy.

See you Tuesday when the world, and healthcare will continue to exist. And hopefully be all the better for it.

ButtermilkBuoy, I appreciate the question but this is about 45 plus million people who don't have health insurance which opponents of ObamaCare don't want to address. Again, my point is that people who are sick who don't have health insurance or who have it but still can't get access to care don't have the personal freedom that you think is so desirable.

The problem is that they are already stating that there will still be around 30 million that will still be uninsured when all is said and done. So, for all this mess, they still didn't fix the problem. That is why we had medicare and medicaid, those systems could have been expanded to include uninsured that had pre-existing conditions without totally turning healthcare upside down. And without adding tens of thousands of pages of useless laws and regulations so the government can try to take total control of everyone's lives. Think about the power you have just given to the IRS! Did we really need a government agency given the powers that the IRS will now have in our lives? Why are you liberals so hell-bent on giving so much power to the Federal government? The power should be with the state's and county governments, where local people can keep a close watch of the laws being passed. Then if you don't like your state or county laws, you can move to an area that is more in line of your political thinking. With Federal government laws, the only way to get away from them is to move out of the country.

Now lets look at what we have done to working healthy Americans, to make sure that the uninsured could have healthcare. Hundreds of thousands of people have already been knocked down to part time status in their jobs, lost their benefits which include health insurance, vacation time, holiday pay and some have lost their retirement plan. So it's okay to destroy other peoples livelihood so that others can benefit! Of course, most of the people affected by this works in the private sector, not government. I say if this is really what you want, knock down all non-essential government employees down to part time status, take away their benefits, make them have to use this very popular plan, just like the everyday common private sector American citizen. All union workers knocked down to part time status, take away their benefits and retirement and put them on this great healthcare plan. Put all congressmen and senators and the President and Vice President on this great medical plan. If it's good enough for the average American citizen, then it should be good enough for everyone! If your not willing to give up your jobs benefits and perks, then you should be against this plan, period!

If your already on government assistance and receiving any kind of benefit for food, shelter, or unemployment, then you should only have a cell phone with very limited minutes for emergencies and job interviews, drug screening at least once a year, no cable tv and very limited internet service! If your found in violation, you start losing your benefits! If you want a $600 cell phone with unlimited everything or a $100 a month cable package with HBO and Showtime, or a car that's less then 6 years old, do it with your own money, not the tax payers that are out busting their butts every day. But, I guess that would be to much to ask! People seem to think that (able bodied) people that are not willing to work, or think they should only work a 40 hour week, should have the same luxuries of the everyday hard working citizen. WHY? Give them the bare necessities to live and if they want more in life, then that should motivate them to get up and go to work everyday like everyone else, or at least try to improve themselves! When you give people "free stuff", they get lazy and expect more and then start demanding more! Sound familiar! Like striking for $15 an hour to flip hamburgers! I have worked 10 to 14 hours a day for the past 30+ years and barely make $15 an hour! With a helluva lot more responsibility on my back than flipping hamburgers or not burning the fries!

Actually, I thought the number of people who don't have health insurance has steadily increased each years. Don't know how that plays out percentage wise.

Have you ever thought about the numbers? A big percentage can get the insurance, but dont want to spend the money to get it, like young adults, it might crimp their lifestyle. When most people are in their late teens and twenties, they don't bother to get medical insurance, cause they don't think they will need it or benefit from having it, so they just keep the money in their pockets. And most young adults work in low pay, low benefit jobs that don't offer insurance. Not all uninsured Americans want insurance, they would rather keep the money in their pockets! I'm not saying their thinking is right, but why bother to pay for insurance when they probably won't need it and they can buy some really cool stuff with that money instead. Like $6000 worth of rims and tires for their car, or maybe that $2500 stereo system for their car, so they can make peoples windows rattle, a new car every 4 or 5 years or the newest iphone! Of course the government doesn't remind you of these people, they want to push the gloom and doom, so they can get more control and power over the people. Why do you think a politician would spend the money and effort to run for a job that won't even pay back what was spent to take that position? It's not about the money, it's all about having power and control! And the average American citizen is happily handing over that control, to receive their government handouts!

Hyperlexis,

"People who believe in evolution in biology often believe in creationism in government. In other words, they believe that the universe and all the creatures in it could have evolved spontaneously, but that the economy (and Health Care) is too complicated to operate without being directed by politicians." Thomas Sowell

The comments in the brackets are mine.

The ACA and the black president have won. Romney lost, big time. Get over it. It's called democracy.

There in lies the problem, we are a republic not a democracy or did we forget?