Five Myths about the Canadian Health Care system from AARP

deerhound wrote:I'd take Palin any day over Obama in a battle of the minds.

Oh dear God!

ems wrote:

deerhound wrote:I'd take Palin any day over Obama in a battle of the minds.

Oh dear God!

Kind of my thoughts about someone believing anything that spews from Obama's mouth.

49er wrote:

OhHelpMe wrote:

I am tired of the hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune.

And where in this thread do you find "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people who are going through misfortune"?

Or is that something you just made up in order to make "hateful bigoted comments stereotyping people" who have different viewpoints from your own?

WoodWorkerJunkie said

If your already on government assistance and receiving any kind of benefit for food, shelter, or unemployment, then you should only have a cell phone with very limited minutes for emergencies and job interviews, drug screening at least once a year, no cable tv and very limited internet service! If your found in violation, you start losing your benefits! If you want a $600 cell phone with unlimited everything or a $100 a month cable package with HBO and Showtime, or a car that's less then 6 years old, do it with your own money, not the tax payers that are out busting their butts every day. But, I guess that would be to much to ask! People seem to think that (able bodied) people that are not willing to work, or think they should only work a 40 hour week, should have the same luxuries of the everyday hard working citizen. WHY? Give them the bare necessities to live and if they want more in life, then that should motivate them to get up and go to work everyday like everyone else, or at least try to improve themselves! When you give people "free stuff", they get lazy and expect more and then start demanding more! Sound familiar! Like striking for $15 an hour to flip hamburgers! I have worked 10 to 14 hours a day for the past 30+ years and barely make $15 an hour! With a helluva lot more responsibility on my back than flipping hamburgers or not burning the fries!

49er

I'm sorry 49er, that is a pretty bad example you picked to be considered "hateful bigoted comments"! Nothing hateful about it, just my opinion! I'm not going to break it down piece by piece, but the hole point is, if a person can afford to drive a new car, own cell phones with unlimited everything, have the biggest cable package and fastest internet package offered, while receiving government help for housing and food, then "I"(me, myself, and I) believe that they are probably abusing the system! Period. Nothing hateful, or bigoted about it! If they are going to receive these benefits from the government, then yes a drug screen once a year so that the government can check to see if they are using tax dollars to buy alcohol or drugs! "I" don't think that is to much to ask! My opinion! Yours may differ and I may not like your opinion, but I won't call you a bigot! Of course, you did read far enough into it that says "able bodied people not willing to work", I never said anything about disabled people, single working mothers or fathers! Maybe I should have stated that first instead of half way through, but that is the people that I'm talking about. I know there are a lot of honest hard working people that need a hand to try to make ends meet, but, there are a bunch of lazy moochers out there that want everything handed to them and expect someone else to pay for it! I have to have random drug and alcohol test for my job and I'm not receiving any kind of assistance from the government, so why would it be a problem for them to do the same?

my finding about those government programs that are allegedly available that would give me free iphones with luxurious features, a IPAD, a mansion with 9 bedrooms, a Mercedes, a laptop, access to free lobster and steak, enough money to live without working since I am unemployed and access to free sleep studies, pap machines and supplies at free healthcare community clinics.

Never said anything about free phones,ipads, mansion, Mercedes,laptop,free lobster and steak, nor access to free medical care or equipment or free healthcare community clinics! Your awfully quick to change everything around that someone has said to suit your own needs, I will break this down, so that you might be able to understand my position better!
healthcare community clinics.
I stated that people can go to these federally funded clinics, that are based on their income, if their income is small enough or they are uninsured, most services are free or at very little cost, based on income. So here is a link to my "alleged" community clinics! http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov
shelter(housing) This was back in the 80's..The free housing program for people with little to no income, I'm sure you've heard of it!(some call them the projects) They will even pay most of your electric and pay all of your water bill, imagine that! I personally knew a woman living in one of these apartments with her teenage son and had her boyfriend living with her that was in the military! He was not supposed to be living there! When I walked in, there was a nice big screen TV (for the time frame), a stereo system that would easily run over $1500, and probably over a thousand dollars worth of home interior decor hanging all over her walls. She had nicer "stuff" throughout her apartment, than me and my wife could afford to purchase and we both worked 50 hours a week each! She's living there free, pays no water or sewer and payed $20 a month for electric, and was receiving $600 a month in food stamps. $600 was a lot for groceries in the 80's.
food (food stamps, now ebt cards) Again back in the 80's.. I was an assistant manager at a independent grocery store and witnessed food stamp fraud on a regular bases! Had a woman come in and order over $350 worth of steaks and filet mignon and said she would be back in about an hour to pick it up. I was up front at the registers when she came back and paid for her order with food stamps. (no ebt card, this is back when it was food stamp vouchers in books) I watched our employee carry her order out and place it in a 1 year old Cadillac. Of course there is no way that this could be abusing our food stamp system! Watched another man buy at least 8 country ham's on sale (two at a time, leave and come back, same day, near Christmas), and pay for them with food stamps every time. Do you think he might have been taking them out and selling them for cash to get a little Christmas money? My all time favorite, give each kid a 1 dollar food stamp to buy a 5 cent piece of candy, then buy either a beer or a pack of cigarettes with all the change! Nah, no fraud at all going on in these programs! Before I get all the comments, "I should have turned them in", I reported each one of these incidents to the store owner and was told, "not to worry about it, if they didn't spend them here they would just do it somewhere else!"
unemployment When it comes to unemployment, unless you live a very sheltered life, I'm sure you have heard of some people (maybe even know someone) that will draw their unemployment and then work and be paid cash under the table.

My question for you; where were you when the insults like teabagger, Who let these people out of daycare, Repubtards (in another thread) were being thrown around? You only seem to get offended when it's from someone from the "other" side!

[quote="woodworkerjunkie"
, then "I"(me, myself, and I) believe that they are probably abusing the system! Period. Nothing hateful, or bigoted about it! If they are going to receive these benefits from the government, then yes a drug screen once a year so that the government can check to see if they are using tax dollars to buy alcohol or drugs! "I" don't think that is to much to ask! My opinion! Yours may differ and I may not like your opinion, but I won't call you a bigot! [/quote]

Because it costs far more to catch the occasional fraud then to ignore it. It also means you have to treat EVERYBODY like they are committing fraud, and you know what? When you treat someone like a fraudster they say, "WTF the bloody bastards, off course I will take them for what ever I can!". Sort of like the price for security = loss of freedom.
If you really want to get wasted money back you go after the tax frauds. For same price that you nickle and dime the poor you can get millions in taxes back. The reality is that you have confirmation bias, you don't see all the honest people because you don't want to see them, statistically they way out number the fraudsters but they don't make a good story.

BlackSpinner wrote:[quote="woodworkerjunkie"
, then "I"(me, myself, and I) believe that they are probably abusing the system! Period. Nothing hateful, or bigoted about it! If they are going to receive these benefits from the government, then yes a drug screen once a year so that the government can check to see if they are using tax dollars to buy alcohol or drugs! "I" don't think that is to much to ask! My opinion! Yours may differ and I may not like your opinion, but I won't call you a bigot!

Because it costs far more to catch the occasional fraud then to ignore it. It also means you have to treat EVERYBODY like they are committing fraud, and you know what? When you treat someone like a fraudster they say, "WTF the bloody bastards, off course I will take them for what ever I can!". Sort of like the price for security = loss of freedom.
If you really want to get wasted money back you go after the tax frauds. For same price that you nickle and dime the poor you can get millions in taxes back. The reality is that you have confirmation bias, you don't see all the honest people because you don't want to see them, statistically they way out number the fraudsters but they don't make a good story.[/quote]
Thanks for saying this BlackSpinner. I agree 100%.

BlackSpinner wrote:
Because it costs far more to catch the occasional fraud then to ignore it. It also means you have to treat EVERYBODY like they are committing fraud, and you know what? When you treat someone like a fraudster they say, "WTF the bloody bastards, off course I will take them for what ever I can!". Sort of like the price for security = loss of freedom.
If you really want to get wasted money back you go after the tax frauds. For same price that you nickle and dime the poor you can get millions in taxes back. The reality is that you have confirmation bias, you don't see all the honest people because you don't want to see them, statistically they way out number the fraudsters but they don't make a good story.

I believe YOU tend to overlook whatever you like to make your point! Just a couple of sentences down, I'll quote myself; " I know there are a lot of honest hard working people that need a hand to try to make ends meet,". And you state that I don't see all the honest people, because I don't want to see them. Are you blind? Most honest hard working people that have nothing to hide would not object to being tested! They may not like it, but they wouldn't object!

In this country there are numerous employers that require people to take random drug test and some even require the passing of a lie detector test, to qualify for employment, including some government jobs. So under your assumption, employees that work for one of these companies or the government, should feel that their employer suspects them of doing drugs or coming to work drunk and should feel free to take them for what ever they can! You know what? There have been several people fired for coming to work drunk and testing positive for various drugs!

Since I am one of those people that has to take random drug and alcohol test and be searched going in and coming out of the premises of my employer, I consider it (taking the test) an agreement with my employer as part of the condition of my employment. If I was to be in need of government assistance of any kind, I would feel the same way toward drug screening to be eligible for the government assistance. So again, I don't see where the problem is, except maybe if the person is using drugs!

It seems that people on this board has gotten so used to diagnosing everyone's problems on this board, they consider themselves qualified to diagnose many problems and diseases. So in your professional opinion, I have confirmation bias. Please tell me, is there a pill or a cure for my disease?

I have to ask because I don't want to assume like so many others on this board, where do you stand on having to show a pictured ID when a person goes in to vote?

deerhound wrote: Palin never said that. She said that Russia was a close neighbor. That you can see Russia from land in Alaska. Tina Fey did her skit on Palin and from that point on most Democrat voters thought Palin said she can see Russia from her yard. Fey did an amazing imitation of Palin, but it was unfair of people to judge Palin's intelligence on a comedy skit that was intended to demean her.

Right, we should judge Palin on what she really said, so let's see what she really said, and what her own party members thought about Couric's questions and Palin's answers:

“ COURIC: You’ve cited Alaska’s proximity to Russia as part of your foreign-policy experience. What did you mean by that?

PALIN: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land — boundary that we have with — Canada. It, it’s funny that a comment like that was — kind of made to cari — I don’t know. You know. Reporters —

COURIC: Mocked?

PALIN: Yeah, mocked, I guess that’s the word, yeah.

COURIC: Explain to me why that enhances your foreign policy credentials.

PALIN: Well, it certainly does because our— our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They're in the state that I am the executive of. And there in Russia—

COURIC: Have you ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?

PALIN: We have trade missions back and forth. We— we do— it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where— where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is— from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to— to our state.

“
COURIC: And when it comes to establishing your world view, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this — to stay informed and to understand the world?

PALIN: I’ve read most of them again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media, coming f—

COURIC: But like which ones specifically? I’m curious that you—

PALIN: Um, all of 'em, any of 'em that, um, have, have been in front of me over all these years. Um, I have a va—

COURIC: Can you name a few?

PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news too. Alaska isn't a foreign country, where, it's kind of suggested and it seems like, 'Wow, how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, D.C. may be thinking and doing when you live up there in Alaska?' Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.

On the other hand, former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee defended Couric, "Now I must say I did not think that ... the Katie Couric interviews were unfair. In fact, if anything, Katie Couric was extraordinarily gentle, even helpful. [Palin] just ... I don't know what happened. I can't explain it. It was not a good interview. I'm being charitable."

Steve Schmidt, McCain's senior campaign strategist and advisor, later reflected on the interview, first by defending Couric by saying that there were no "gotcha questions" or "unfair questions,"

Palin said in a retrospective with conservative filmmaker John Ziegler on the Couric interview. "My question to the campaign was, after it didn’t go well the first day, why were we going to go back for more?

woodworkerjunkie wrote: Since I am one of those people that has to take random drug and alcohol test and be searched going in and coming out of the premises of my employer, I consider it (taking the test) an agreement with my employer as part of the condition of my employment. If I was to be in need of government assistance of any kind, I would feel the same way toward drug screening to be eligible for the government assistance. So again, I don't see where the problem is, except maybe if the person is using drugs!

That was part of your choice to take that job with those job conditions. It is not the same as you are down and out and asking for help, help that you already paid for with your previous taxes, and you ar assumed to be a crook because you need that help.

It seems that people on this board has gotten so used to diagnosing everyone's problems on this board, they consider themselves qualified to diagnose many problems and diseases. So in your professional opinion, I have confirmation bias. Please tell me, is there a pill or a cure for my disease?

No there isn't as long as you are human. That is why anecdotal information is not valuable as scientific data, only as a starting point for developing a test. It is also why humans developed the scientific method and peer review.
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles. ... avoidable/
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12264-li ... M.facebook
http://thetyee.ca/Books/2013/07/02/Aust ... ign=020713
http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100


Also realize that people providing you with real information isn't going to change your view point. Mostly you will dig in your heels and hold tighter to your believes.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas ... _backfire/




I have to ask because I don't want to assume like so many others on this board, where do you stand on having to show a pictured ID when a person goes in to vote?[/quote]

This is a trick question because it depends on how you define getting that ID. In Quebec all you have to do is ask for their health card which everyone has. When you start providing universal health care cards that double as government ID'S then yes I agree one could use that.

I want to add to Blk Spinner's note that Quebec law can be quite different from most other provinces in Canada and the rest of us do not generally have to show pix to vote.

Julie wrote:I want to add to Blk Spinner's note that Quebec law can be quite different from most other provinces in Canada and the rest of us do not generally have to show pix to vote.

Nobody in Quebec has to either. I was just using the ID card as an example of one that everyone has without exception if you are over 16. ANY ID card that might be used for a voter ID must one that everyone all ready has and it free of cost.

I personally think that in the USA the only voter ID should be a universal health care card. That would solve the problem of voter ID and health care issues in one swoop.

Voter fraud is a straw man anyway. The majority of voter fraud was done by the parties trying to suppress voters. There is very little real voter fraud.

BlackSpinner wrote:

Julie wrote:I want to add to Blk Spinner's note that Quebec law can be quite different from most other provinces in Canada and the rest of us do not generally have to show pix to vote.

Nobody in Quebec has to either. I was just using the ID card as an example of one that everyone has without exception if you are over 16. ANY ID card that might be used for a voter ID must one that everyone all ready has and it free of cost.

I personally think that in the USA the only voter ID should be a universal health care card. That would solve the problem of voter ID and health care issues in one swoop.

Voter fraud is a straw man anyway. The majority of voter fraud was done by the parties trying to suppress voters. There is very little real voter fraud.

Voter fraud is a Democrat institution in the US, not a straw man.

Really? What do you call what Jeb Bush engineered to get his bro. into office the first time around - hanging chads and all!

Julie wrote:Really? What do you call what Jeb Bush engineered to get his bro. into office the first time around - hanging chads and all!

Algore's attempt to steal an election. The only "problems" were in democrat run voting districts where Algore could count on "new" votes being "found". These were the only places Algore wanted a recount. He wouldn't agree to a statewide recount. Like I said, a Democrat institution. Had Algore won in his home State he wouldn't have needed to try cheating in Florida.

Julie wrote:Really? What do you call what Jeb Bush engineered to get his bro. into office the first time around - hanging chads and all!

+1! I lived in Florida at that time. What a MESS!

Oh, Deerhound... I noticed that since NateS posted the interview (Couric/Palin), you haven't said the first word about it. :lol

When I know more about world events and where countries are located than someone running for VP of the U.S., it's pretty scary!

ems wrote:

Julie wrote:Really? What do you call what Jeb Bush engineered to get his bro. into office the first time around - hanging chads and all!

+1! I lived in Florida at that time. What a MESS!

Oh, Deerhound... I noticed that since NateS posted the interview (Couric/Palin), you haven't said the first word about it. :lol

When I know more about world events and where countries are located than someone running for VP of the U.S., it's pretty scary!

Even I know there is only 50 States, but Obama said there were 58. That is very scary. I never said that Palin was the brightest bulb on the tree. I just said Obama makes her look like a genius.