Way to go - APOLOGY ALSO

Pesser wrote:Where's the offending post?

This forum needs Pugsy. I really need to see that post. Can anyone help?

I'm fairly certain that this is the thread that broke the camel's back:


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106934&p=1051922#p1051922

Lucyhere wrote:I have a thought - if someone posts a nasty, uncalled for post and is immediately called out on it... I'm thinking that after a few times that person would stop. Maybe they wouldn't, but IMHO it would be worth a try. I guess you could call that "moderation" of sorts, but there wouldn't be just one or two moderators... there would be many, (most?) hopefully making a safe haven for those who need help and support. Those are my thoughts for this rainy Monday morning... any others?

You know I have thought long and hard about what to do when people starting throwing those little barbs at each other. One person gets snarky so someone else usually gets snarky right back telling the snarky person just how snarky they really are...then someone chimes in with the "right to free speech" argument and often in a bit of a snarky manner or someone else chimes in with the "tough love" "get a thicker skin" snarky response and it goes on forever...and that is just what makes me so sad.
Each person wants to get the last word in and prove their point and the end result is nothing but a shit load of snarky responses disguised in the attempt to police the board and run the bullies off.

When it comes down to it...the person who wants to call out the bullies is being a bully themselves IMHO all be it they have the best of intentions. Plus I bet the persons doing the bullying or spouting off snarkiness don't really think they are being the very thing that they are professing to attempt to stop.
It's a vicious circle that feeds itself very easily because there's always someone who just has to poke the bear or be the last person to poke the bear.

It comes down to this....two wrongs don't make a right and it takes a grown up with some balls to walk away and not poke the bear no matter how much they want to.

Calling a person out for being snarky...won't work because all it does it continually add fuel to the snarky fire.
In a pissing contest everyone gets wet and stinky and messy. Even the people who think they are just trying to break up the pissing contest.

My personal opinion is simply ignore the shitty snarky comments just like we should ignore the trolls.
If you don't feed it then it's going to eventually become bored and go away. The problem being is there's always someone who just has to poke back. They just can't keep their mouths shut and just have to point out someone else's short comings and it's usually done in a snarky like manner.

Again....two wrongs don't make a right now matter how well intentioned that second wrong might be.

And my gut response of just STFU is wrong also and that's why I refrain from using it but I tell you that my fingers are bloody from biting them to keep from responding that way.

We don't need the forum police...what we need is for people to act like grown ups instead of 2 year olds throwing a temper tantrum. Disagree...sure but in a polite way. Attack the message if need be but not the messenger because when the messenger gets attacked they are going to fight back in a similar manner and that's when all the shit starts getting thrown.

The hardest thing to do is walk away from a fight or pissing contest or whatever without ever being a part of it.

YIPPEE YAHOO!! The voice of reason, our very own Pugsy has spoken and put it all into perspective...... thank you, thank you.


+100,000,000,000... opps I think I got too many 000's in there.

Cheers, and B will you please stay, after having a vacation that is, and keep the great advice and help for others coming.
Tell the old man to get off the road for a few days and both of you escape to some sunny climate and RELAX and ENJOY!!!!!

Nan

Lucyhere wrote: I'm fairly certain that this is the thread that broke the camel's back:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106934&p=1051922#p1051922

It played a substantial part and it wasn't because of the PaleRider/Michelle bickering.
It was the general attitude that came about after Klutzo remarked that she was driven to tears...she was made fun of. To make fun of someone in pain just plain disgusts me. I don't care if the pain doesn't seem important to me or someone else...it's very real to the person experiencing it and for that reason I just can't stomach the attitude that followed. I should have spoken up in that thread but I was so shocked and so saddened that I was without words.

Add those feelings to the other shit that goes on where people snark at each other for pages and pages trying to get the last shovelful of shit thrown....when 80% of the posts in one day are just shit slinging...I don't want to be party to that sort of environment.

Pugsy wrote:We don't need the forum police...what we need is for people to act like grown ups instead of 2 year olds throwing a temper tantrum. Disagree...sure but in a polite way. Attack the message if need be but not the messenger because when the messenger gets attacked they are going to fight back in a similar manner and that's when all the shit starts getting thrown.

In a different forum I would agree with you 100%. However, when has this forum been any other way than how it is now?? Never that I can remember. If you do leave, do you think anything is going to change? Yeah, maybe for 20 minutes some will sit up and take notice. Then it will start up all over again! What you said has been said by you and others many times before... did anything change... no. Either we make this forum a safe place for new people who need help and support or we don't... and it hasn't been in a very long time.

Your turn...

Pugsy wrote:

Lucyhere wrote: I'm fairly certain that this is the thread that broke the camel's back:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106934&p=1051922#p1051922

It played a substantial part and it wasn't because of the PaleRider/Michelle bickering.
It was the general attitude that came about after Klutzo remarked that she was driven to tears...she was made fun of. To make fun of someone in pain just plain disgusts me. I don't care if the pain doesn't seem important to me or someone else...it's very real to the person experiencing it and for that reason I just can't stomach the attitude that followed. I should have spoken up in that thread but I was so shocked and so saddened that I was without words.

Add those feelings to the other shit that goes on where people snark at each other for pages and pages trying to get the last shovelful of shit thrown....when 80% of the posts in one day are just shit slinging...I don't want to be party to that sort of environment.

Of course it was about klutzo! I felt the same way when I read her original post! Michelle just voiced what many were thinking.

On and on it goes !!!

I have not read the offending original post, or the one referred to as being but I do know that it was just the straw that broke the camel's back or in this case, Pugsy's..

I do not post here often, and don't even visit the site frequently.... I, like so many others have found the help I needed,at the time I needed it and don't feel the draw that I once did. I do know I've been helped and should give back to this very helpful site. But I also realize what little I Have to offer especially when compared to Pugsy and some others..

A really sad day @cpaptalk....I feel as though there has been a death and I'll never see my close friend again. We really don't know one another but Pugsy we know your heart and it is Pure Gold. You have, and will continue to help so many of us through your posts.

I do understand and support You taking care of You....Hoping and Praying you get the rest and relaxation you so deserve, the healing. Am hoping we will once again heed your advice and dish out the compassion you mentioned while overlooking anothers flaws and shortcomings.

Pugsy, Thank you Thank you Thank You, Steve

Lucyhere wrote:Your turn...

Two wrongs don't make a right...no matter how bad the first wrong is that someone thinks needs to be made right with another wrong.

I have been here since 2009 and been in my share of pissing contests but used to be those were just related to different points of view relating to some sort of cpap therapy issue.

Used to be the forum members would break their backs trying to help someone in pain...not now...we get into fights about our "right" to respond however we feel never mind what it sounds like or who gets hurt.

We spend more time commenting on comments than we do dealing with cpap problems.

If you don't poke the bear he won't wake up and making excuses for poking the bear doesn't make it "right" to poke the bear. This is supposed to be a cpap help forum....not a "how many times can I poke the bear forum".

There are a few personalities here that I just plain don't like and what they say just irks me to no end but unless what they say is blatantly incorrect or potentially harmful I just bite my fingers and ignore them. It's hard to do I know but

Lucyhere wrote:However, when has this forum been any other way than how it is now??

It's much worse now because people spend more time bitching about the person they don't care for and what was maybe said than they do about helping someone.

People are attacking the messenger instead of the message. We have always attacked the message (and I don't think that should stop) but in the last couple of years it's become common place to attack the messenger instead because poking the bear is so much more rewarding than letting it sleep. When 80% of one days posts are personal attacks....things have gotten a lot worse than they have ever been in the past.

And to anyone in general these thoughts:

Why is it so friggin important to be the person to call someone a bully? It's not like the rest of us don't see it for what it is anyway. I don't need someone to point out that so and so is being an asshole...I can see that for myself.
And calling them an asshole isn't going to make them quit being an asshole no matter how much we are tempted to do it.

Danbeck wrote:On and on it goes !!!

STFU... please...see I was nice about it.
If you can't say something nice....then STFU...please.

At least the bickering has died down a bit and moved over here which didn't surprise me and that's why I owned up to who it was that Madalot was talking about. Some semblance of peach and quiet for a short while at least.

The forum owner has clearly stated how they want the forum to operate-unmoderated. If all the decent people leave this forum will become a bunch of rats waiting for a newbie to join so they can pounce and laugh about the latest troll they scared away. Very sad indeed.

As for the other place, I actually enjoy it. Most of the rules are to make sure it remains looked at as an educational site so they don't get sued for providing the manuals that manufacturers don't want them handing out. It does not take a "real" violation, all it takes is a lawsuit filed and the owner will close down from the lack of ability to fight it out in court.

Seems like there should be some way to form a "posse" when someone really gets out of line.

Maybe quietly pm'ing anyone who decides to get involved in the thread to "foe" the perpetrator. That way, the perpetrator will eventually be met with nothing but silence, and that's not much fun.

I have "foe'd" a few people on this board, and they are no longer very active if at all (even if I don't see their posts, I can see evidence of their posts, or lack thereof)--I suspect because others did the same instead of continually poking them.

And especially PM'ing the newbie who gets caught in the crossfire to let them know that this member is out of line and suggest that they foe that person.

Marking a person as a foe means you won't see their posts any more--no reason to be irritated at them. And they won't know you have done so, so there's nothing to try to retaliate. Eventually, though, the silence will be deafening.

PoolQ wrote: If all the decent people leave this forum will become a bunch of rats waiting for a newbie to join so they can pounce and laugh about the latest troll they scared away. Very sad indeed.

Good point!

Pugsy wrote:

Lucyhere wrote:Your turn...

Two wrongs don't make a right...no matter how bad the first wrong is that someone thinks needs to be made right with another wrong.

I have been here since 2009 and been in my share of pissing contests but used to be those were just related to different points of view relating to some sort of cpap therapy issue.

Used to be the forum members would break their backs trying to help someone in pain...not now...we get into fights about our "right" to respond however we feel never mind what it sounds like or who gets hurt.

We spend more time commenting on comments than we do dealing with cpap problems.

If you don't poke the bear he won't wake up and making excuses for poking the bear doesn't make it "right" to poke the bear. This is supposed to be a cpap help forum....not a "how many times can I poke the bear forum".

There are a few personalities here that I just plain don't like and what they say just irks me to no end but unless what they say is blatantly incorrect or potentially harmful I just bite my fingers and ignore them. It's hard to do I know but

Lucyhere wrote:However, when has this forum been any other way than how it is now??

It's much worse now because people spend more time bitching about the person they don't care for and what was maybe said than they do about helping someone.

People are attacking the messenger instead of the message. We have always attacked the message (and I don't think that should stop) but in the last couple of years it's become common place to attack the messenger instead because poking the bear is so much more rewarding than letting it sleep. When 80% of one days posts are personal attacks....things have gotten a lot worse than they have ever been in the past.

And to anyone in general these thoughts:

Why is it so friggin important to be the person to call someone a bully? It's not like the rest of us don't see it for what it is anyway. I don't need someone to point out that so and so is being an asshole...I can see that for myself.
And calling them an asshole isn't going to make them quit being an asshole no matter how much we are tempted to do it.

I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am for the part I played in this. I can only apologize by saying that sticking up for someone when they are being beaten down, whether it's by a person, the system, life, etc...it's just who I am. It's my career, it's my choice of leisure time, spending it in dog rescue, helping out at a free clinic, it's just who I am. I normally operate by 'to know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice' -Confucius. I will make every effort to just read something offensive and let it go from now on.

Janknitz wrote:Seems like there should be some way to form a "posse" when someone really gets out of line.

Maybe quietly pm'ing anyone who decides to get involved in the thread to "foe" the perpetrator. That way, the perpetrator will eventually be met with nothing but silence, and that's not much fun.

I have "foe'd" a few people on this board, and they are no longer very active if at all (even if I don't see their posts, I can see evidence of their posts, or lack thereof)--I suspect because others did the same instead of continually poking them.

And especially PM'ing the newbie who gets caught in the crossfire to let them know that this member is out of line and suggest that they foe that person.

Marking a person as a foe means you won't see their posts any more--no reason to be irritated at them. And they won't know you have done so, so there's nothing to try to retaliate. Eventually, though, the silence will be deafening.

Brilliant... seriously!