So long folks

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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mollete
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Re: So long folks

Post by mollete » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:36 am

49er wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:--and we do have tough love for those still frantically paddling up (or was it down) De-Nile.
As one of my favorite posters, I really hate to disagree with you about this issue but in my opinion, this attitude drives people away from the forum vs. encouraging them to visit and register.
And I hate to disagree with your disagreement.

"Tough love", in some cases, may be a useful tool to get people on the right road.

For instance, there are occasionally posters that complain how tired they are in spite of AHI < 5.0 consistently.

Viewing their trend reports, however, may show inconsistent use, bedtimes at like 0230, massive sleep debt, etc.

TL may be the only thing that gets them a reality check.

To your point, though
you don't know the whole story.
I agree 600%. People only share what they want to share, and may leave out critical clinical information.

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Madalot
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Re: So long folks

Post by Madalot » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:47 am

Chiming in here again, on the subject of tough love.

My opinion and belief is (and it's just that -- opinion and belief) is that there is a time for tough love, even on this forum. But that time is very subjective, where to me, it should be used as a last resort, when kinder methods have proven ineffective.

I believe that some forum members jump directly to tough love, never giving kinder, more sympathetic methods a chance.

I've been on this forum for 3+ years now and can assure that had I been given "tough love" right off, I would have walked. Actually, I did make a walking move once after I felt a little bullied, but in the end, decided to swallow my pride, suck it up, apologize for my 'I'm leaving' rant -- and try again. I made a few promises that I have kept and have gone with the "take 'em or leave 'em" mentality, thus allowing me to stay and participate, but do an eyeroll at those I feel are being "unfriendly" --

It works.

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photodork
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Re: So long folks

Post by photodork » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:09 pm

i lurked on this forum for a couple of years before joining.
there is alot of wonderful advice and knowledge here and i am extremely grateful for it.
i think ill stick around.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: So long folks

Post by chunkyfrog » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:40 pm

It is tricky, proportioning the "tough" vs the "love".
Even in person, it is difficult to know the pain and frustration, and where reason,
and the willingness to face the tough stuff can begin. And we, "non-professionals",
are trying to do that online, and anonymously. Bless us for trying, but who gets it "right"
every time? I like to think we often manage better than a lot of the pro's; and that is a sad thing to see,
considering we are "underground" for the most part, and the professionals are failing so many.

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Re: So long folks

Post by BlackSpinner » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:07 pm

Except that many here think unvarnished truth and stats are tough love. A thread with 50 posts cooing and billing and one with straight talk and everyone freaks. "ooh don't frighten them with reality" Thanks but no thanks - I want clear truth.

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idamtnboy
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Re: So long folks

Post by idamtnboy » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:09 pm

49er wrote:I just don't understand why people are driven to do this.

Also, how do you know someone is De-Nile because other than what they post on this forum, you don't know the whole story.
As one who has been chastised by 49er, I'm inclined to acknowledge he does have a point. But that just shows how complicated this whole thing about human relations really can be. What is a strong positive for one, may be a strong negative for another. The problem is knowing who is who. Let me give an example.

Recently I listened to a director of a local area home for abused children. They limit their home to adopted children, both domestic and foreign, who have been abused, physically, mentally, and/or sexually, by their adoptive families. I was shocked to learn how many adopted children, especially of foreign birth, are abused by one or both of their adoptive parents. But I was almost more shocked to hear the director say one of our everyday actions to demonstrate our liking, appreciation, or love, for another person, hugs, are absolutely forbidden. Yes, hugs, including an arm around the shoulder, are forbidden. Why? Because physical touching is the basis of the abuse that child received, and physical touching, even in love, can cause all sorts of negative reactions within that child. Now, after years of counseling and being in a group that demonstrates love, that aversion can be, and usually does get, changed to acceptance.

The human psyche is extremely complicated. Tough love works, and for some people that is exactly what is needed. But I am sure there are others for whom a tough love comment is the catalyst to cause an explosion of feelings of being hated, disliked, abused, ridiculed, and so on. Why? Because those kinds of comments are the basis of the verbal abuse they have suffered. The question is, who is who?

So let's all of us, on both sides of the issue, recognize the validity of each others opinions and understanding. All of us are right, maybe even most of the time, but none of us is right all the time. And conversely, none of us is wrong all the time, but all of us are wrong sometimes. It is especially difficult to discern when we may be wrong because of the absence of body language.

Let's keep going forward, and when we get it right, be happy, and when we get it wrong, apologize, and move on. And those who have felt wronged, please understand and accept the reality that we're doing the best we can within the limitations God, or Mother Nature if you prefer, has imposed upon us.

Love and peace to all.

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DoriC
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Re: So long folks

Post by DoriC » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:41 pm

This reminds me of the complications in raising my two children in the same loving, nurturing environment. One would only respond to "tough love" while the other needed lots of TLC to enforce good behavior. There isn't a manual for parenting so it wasn't always easy to figure out how to handle similar growing up situations but with different personalities involved. I guess here on the forum we're all trying to parent each other but just guessing at which tactic will work best. In the absence of face to face vocal expressions and body language, I think tough love is a hard pill to swallow in most cases when just reading someone's words and especially for those who are frightened and struggling. The last thing I'd want to do is hurt someone who's in a fragile state and chase them away.

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Re: So long folks

Post by kaiasgram » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:51 pm

DoriC wrote:This reminds me of the complications in raising my two children in the same loving, nurturing environment. One would only respond to "tough love" while the other needed lots of TLC to enforce good behavior. There isn't a manual for parenting so it wasn't always easy to figure out how to handle similar growing up situations but with different personalities involved. I guess here on the forum we're all trying to parent each other but just guessing at which tactic will work best. In the absence of face to face vocal expressions and body language, I think tough love is a hard pill to swallow in most cases when just reading someone's words and especially for those who are frightened and struggling. The last thing I'd want to do is hurt someone who's in a fragile state and chase them away.
+1 and thank you Dori.

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Starlette
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Re: So long folks

Post by Starlette » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:09 pm

*quick peak to forum* Maybe he'd be much happier with the forum had I given him some milk and cookies too *shrugs*
NOTE: Didn't have time to read all posts.

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Re: So long folks

Post by mollete » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:21 am

idamtnboy wrote:As one who has been chastised by 49er, I'm inclined to acknowledge he does have a point.
Yeah, well get ready to be chastised again...

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kaiasgram
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Re: So long folks

Post by kaiasgram » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:24 am

mollete wrote:
idamtnboy wrote:As one who has been chastised by 49er, I'm inclined to acknowledge he does have a point.
Yeah, well get ready to be chastised again...
Nah, she'll forgive him.

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mollete
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Re: So long folks

Post by mollete » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:42 am

kaiasgram wrote:
mollete wrote:
idamtnboy wrote:As one who has been chastised by 49er, I'm inclined to acknowledge he does have a point.
Yeah, well get ready to be chastised again...
Nah, she'll forgive him.
Undoubtedly, but I needed a line.

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49er
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Re: So long folks

Post by 49er » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:54 am

mollete wrote:
idamtnboy wrote:As one who has been chastised by 49er, I'm inclined to acknowledge he does have a point.
Yeah, well get ready to be chastised again...
Nah, I am too sleep deprived to chastise anyone right now. But watch out once I get pap therapy optimized.

All jokes aside, that is not a good thing when someone says in a post that they were specifically chastised by you so I apologize to idamtnboy if I didn't come across in a nice way.

Anyway, looking at all the fabulous responses I received regarding suggestions for using pillows for side sleeping automatically proves the point about what a great forum this is. So the comments about taking the good with the bad are definitely valid.

I guess here is where is where I am coming from on the "tough love" issue and bare with me because I may start kind of rambling. I feel like in a way I have failed due to not being able to stay asleep on the machine even though another part of my brain is saying, "come on, that is absurd".

I didn't realize how common that was until the sleep medicine dentist on the other site said his patients commonly expressed that feeling. I think it is because we try so hard to make it work and it isn't happening and then when we seen the comments about how if we don't use the machine, we will die the next day, it is like rubbing our nose in the dirt.

So yeah, Black Spinner, because of being in such a fragile state due to the lack of sleep and already feeling frustrated by the lack of success, unfortunately, that one comment can throw someone into a very bad state. Of course, it is up to us to use all our coping techniques to not let that happen but I am just trying to point why something seemingly innocuous can be so devastating.

Anyway, I greatly appreciate all the folks who have given me great support and who are rooting for me as AT said in another post.

Finally, on an off topic note, I am greatly amused by all the folks who assumed because I used the acronym of a football team that I was a guy. You do know that females are football fans, right and have been for several years, right?

49er

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49er
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Re: So long folks

Post by 49er » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:55 am

kaiasgram wrote:
DoriC wrote:This reminds me of the complications in raising my two children in the same loving, nurturing environment. One would only respond to "tough love" while the other needed lots of TLC to enforce good behavior. There isn't a manual for parenting so it wasn't always easy to figure out how to handle similar growing up situations but with different personalities involved. I guess here on the forum we're all trying to parent each other but just guessing at which tactic will work best. In the absence of face to face vocal expressions and body language, I think tough love is a hard pill to swallow in most cases when just reading someone's words and especially for those who are frightened and struggling. The last thing I'd want to do is hurt someone who's in a fragile state and chase them away.
+1 and thank you Dori.
Totally agree, great post Dori.

49er

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mollete
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Re: So long folks

Post by mollete » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:04 am

49er wrote:Finally, on an off topic note, I am greatly amused by all the folks who assumed because I used the acronym of a football team that I was a guy. You do know that females are football fans, right and have been for several years, right?
Awright!!

Chastise those SOBs!!