FREEDOM From Apnoea And Cpap Machine !!!!!

I finished watching the video. The presenter makes dubious claims:

- excessive breathing rate causes snoring

- snoring "leads to" sleep apnea

- CPAP "maintains incorrect [i.e. excessive] breathing"

- CPAP makes people more prone to colds, allergies, bronchitis, etc.

- the web site says, re CPAP, that "people may get temporary relief but usually get worse, are less able to do physical exercise and often find other problems occur such as blood pressure rising. This is because this traditional management not only does not solve the cause of the problem, but actually maintains the problem by keeping the breathing incorrect"

- apnea is the body's defense to CO2 loss and O2 desaturation

- the Buteyko method changes the way you "automatically" breathe

- on the video, the presenter says he is not telling anyone to stop CPAP. They try to slowly wean people off CPAP. That includes a period of "observed breathing" during sleep.

This all sounds like dangerous junk science. Rooster, can you point us, point by point, to studies refuting the specific claims above?

One thing I noticed was that the presenter seemed to be constantly on the verge of being out of breath.

I don't know if this method works or not, but I am always amazed at how many people on this forum are not prepared to consider anything other than cpap. I have been using cpap for over 8 years and have no problems with it, but if I could ditch it for something as simple as this method seems I would certainly consider doing it.
I will do a little more research on it and perhaps give it a try.
Thanks for bringing your results to our attention Chopper

KenD
bris Oz

Perhaps it is important to note that the Buteyko Center USA does NOT include sleep apnea on its "list of curable diseases":

http://www.buteykocenterusa.com/buteyko_asthma.html#a4

is this backed by science or some random amateurs.?

so an apnea is the bodies attempt to not overbreathe?lol and you get more oxygen?if so please xplain why people here had brainfog,tired sleepy?so reggie white died from too much oxygen and too much oxygen caused percy harvin's heart to stop for ten seconds?child please!!!

and still no SLEEP STUDY (aka hard evidence) to be seen

This sounds like advertisement to me. The OP does not ring genuine.

chopper999 wrote:G'day Anonymous - Thanks for the reply to answer your question did I go on a Cpap machine

Actually, I PM'd Chopper yesterday after I ran across his first post. This post was a copy of the reply he sent to me. I wanted to know if CPAP had any effect on Bi-Polar as my son also suffers from it - and I suspect SA too. Right now I wouldn't abandon CPAP as I know it works, but I am all for new ideas. (Yes - I now own a plastic digeridoo.) I'm not crazy about the professional-looking marketing and I would rather it be introduced through conventional channels, but I doubt that conventional medicine would be open to any method that doesn't involve drugs or expensive appliances. My family has found ways to deal with MS and Autism that have little chance of a funded study because double-blind plecebo-controlled studies are incredibly expensive - and why would big pharma contribute to anything that cuts into their profits? It's hard not to shout from the mountaintop when you find something that has worked for you.
I don't have time to watch the video 'till I get home from work but I won't blast it untill I have a chance to really check it out. I hope it is something that can work in conjunction with CPAP and not encourage people to abandon it. Also, there are a lot (50% ?) of people who cannot use CPAP for some reason. If there is a method which can even cut down on the severity of the SA it could be worth a try. I'm not defending the method here. Just saying - lets not jump to conclusions.
Yikes . . . I'm going to be late for work.

Breathe Jimbo wrote:I finished watching the video. The presenter makes dubious claims:

- excessive breathing rate causes snoring

Wrong

- snoring "leads to" sleep apnea

Wrong - snoring is a symptom

- CPAP "maintains incorrect [i.e. excessive] breathing"

Wrong - it doesn't breathe for you or give more O2

- CPAP makes people more prone to colds, allergies, bronchitis, etc.

Wrong - it reduces these

- the web site says, re CPAP, that "people may get temporary relief but usually get worse, are less able to do physical exercise and often find other problems occur such as blood pressure rising. This is because this traditional management not only does not solve the cause of the problem, but actually maintains the problem by keeping the breathing incorrect"

Wrong - again the opposite is true - especially for high blood pressure and exercise

- apnea is the body's defense to CO2 loss and O2 desaturation

Wrong - idiots - it causes O2 desaturation

- the Buteyko method changes the way you "automatically" breathe

Only while awake - it is the collaspe of the airway that stops people breathing - unless it is complex apnea

- on the video, the presenter says he is not telling anyone to stop CPAP. They try to slowly wean people off CPAP. That includes a period of "observed breathing" during sleep.

This all sounds like dangerous junk science. Rooster, can you point us, point by point, to studies refuting the specific claims above?

One thing I noticed was that the presenter seemed to be constantly on the verge of being out of breath.

If this is so great where are the OP's graphs? The before and after?

Breathe Jimbo wrote:Perhaps it is important to note that the Buteyko Center USA does NOT include sleep apnea on its "list of curable diseases":

http://www.buteykocenterusa.com/buteyko_asthma.html#a4

G'day Jimbo - the reason why the Buteyko center USA does not include sleep apnea on its "list of curable diseases is very simple - Sleep apnoea is not CURED by implementing the Buteyko Breathing Method rather it's active symptoms are eliminated - However if the same person resumes heavy volume mouth breathing { The sleep apnoea symptoms return } this forceful heavy mouth breathing creates a stronger vacuum in the lungs than gentle breathing does. This greater vacuum allows ordinary atmospheric air pressure to suck your tongue back and to collapse the relaxed, narrowed airway when you inhale forcefully.

So a person can become symptom free of sleep apnoea { NOT CURED } using the buteyko method as long as they re- learn to breath through the nose correctly plus a few other simple exercises at the start of the treatment.

To use the analogy of a practising alcoholic - if he does not stop his drinking he will surly die one day from his disease of alcoholism however once exposed to the 12 steps of A.A. recovery he can ARREST his active alcoholic symptoms and save his life in the process and as long as he does not pick up another drink he will remain symptom free of the fatal disease of alcoholism for the rest of his life - however once having picked up another drink again - he soon learns the POWER of the saying ' 1 drink is too many and 100 is not enough' and his active symptoms of alcoholism return to haunt him.

I am not trying to SELL buteyko to anyone on this site - however I am just posting to tell you what happened to me personally and my symptoms of severe sleep apnoea after using the buteyko method for 8 days as of now and after attending a 5 day course which may I add came with a 100% money back guarantee so what did I have to lose absolutely nothing except my active sleep apnoea symptoms and that exactly what happened.

Have a great day I know I will - Chopper

chopper999 wrote:
G'day Jimbo - the reason why the Buteyko center USA does not include sleep apnea on its "list of curable diseases is very simple - Sleep apnoea is not CURED by implementing the Buteyko Breathing Method rather it's active symptoms are eliminated - However if the same person resumes heavy volume mouth breathing { The sleep apnoea symptoms return } this forceful heavy mouth breathing creates a stronger vacuum in the lungs than gentle breathing does. This greater vacuum allows ordinary atmospheric air pressure to suck your tongue back and to collapse the relaxed, narrowed airway when you inhale forcefully.

How can I say it nicely? - Bull shit - the smallest amount of googling will show you that this is not true. Otherwise all those silly chin straps would work

So a person can become symptom free of sleep apnoea { NOT CURED } using the buteyko method as long as they re- learn to breath through the nose correctly plus a few other simple exercises at the start of the treatment.
I am not trying to SELL buteyko to anyone on this site - however I am just posting to tell you what happened to me personally and my symptoms of severe sleep apnoea after using the buteyko method for 8 days as of now and after attending a 5 day course which may I add came with a 100% money back guarantee so what did I have to lose absolutely nothing except my active sleep apnoea symptoms and that exactly what happened.

Prove it with before and after graphs.

countman898 wrote:I don't know if this method works or not, but I am always amazed at how many people on this forum are not prepared to consider anything other than cpap. I have been using cpap for over 8 years and have no problems with it, but if I could ditch it for something as simple as this method seems I would certainly consider doing it.
I will do a little more research on it and perhaps give it a try.
Thanks for bringing your results to our attention Chopper

KenD
bris Oz

G'day Ken - no worries mate hey if you do go through with the course say G'day to Brian for me he is the teacher in the video you can tell him that bi - polar mark sent you lol - he will find that funny he is a great bloke with a heart of gold I know that he will be back in Brisbane for another set of courses in and around xmas time just keep an eye out on his website for details - http://www.buteykohealth.com.au/

p.s. Also remember it has a 100 % money back guarantee if you have no results - so go for it mate you've got nothing to lose!

Have a great day I know I will - Chopper.

BlackSpinner wrote:

chopper999 wrote:
G'day Jimbo - the reason why the Buteyko center USA does not include sleep apnea on its "list of curable diseases is very simple - Sleep apnoea is not CURED by implementing the Buteyko Breathing Method rather it's active symptoms are eliminated - However if the same person resumes heavy volume mouth breathing { The sleep apnoea symptoms return } this forceful heavy mouth breathing creates a stronger vacuum in the lungs than gentle breathing does. This greater vacuum allows ordinary atmospheric air pressure to suck your tongue back and to collapse the relaxed, narrowed airway when you inhale forcefully.

How can I say it nicely? - Bull shit - the smallest amount of googling will show you that this is not true. Otherwise all those silly chin straps would work

So a person can become symptom free of sleep apnoea { NOT CURED } using the buteyko method as long as they re- learn to breath through the nose correctly plus a few other simple exercises at the start of the treatment.
I am not trying to SELL buteyko to anyone on this site - however I am just posting to tell you what happened to me personally and my symptoms of severe sleep apnoea after using the buteyko method for 8 days as of now and after attending a 5 day course which may I add came with a 100% money back guarantee so what did I have to lose absolutely nothing except my active sleep apnoea symptoms and that exactly what happened.

Prove it with before and after graphs.

G'day Blackspinner - did not anyone tell you the mind is like a Parachute it works best when it is open - why accuse me of bullshitting people the proof is in the pudding for me - why don't YOU try a 5 day course and see what happens then if it does not work you can post back here and speak with authority from personal experience and say that it was BULLSHIT as far as your results were concerned.


Have a great day I know I will - Chopper.

Hi All

OK - so here is my experience with a 5 day Buteyko course, given in Australia.

The educational and knowledge requirements demanded to get certified are minimal.

Chopper999 is simply wrong when he says -

it's active symptoms are eliminated

However, the post has done a good service in proving, with BlackSpinners inestimable help, that Buteyko is useless for sleep apnea.

I learned one thing from the 5 days, and that was that I could use a crepe bandage to keep my mouth closed whilst sleeping. That was worth knowing. Nor did I pay for the 5 days, the practitioner took some of my recovery videos in exchange, and I think he had the best of the deal.

The analogy with AA is completely false, but again useful in that it proves the illogicality of the arguements presented.

The website says -

If your sleep study(or your partner's "study"!) shows multiple apnoeas each hour, if you have been observed to stop breathing at night, if you are currently using or even thinking of using a CPAP machine, if you can't or don't want to use a CPAP machine .... if you SNORE at night…if your ASTHMA is CONTROLLED ??.. if you need any Asthma medications at all, here you will find information about a safe permanent solution to all these conditions.

The above is just lies as far as sleep apnea is concerned. Better spend your money on a Reiki course, at least on that you can end up believing you can do what in fact you already could do, but did not think you could.

In relation to ashma - the pro's

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/hel ... s/s314.htm

The cons -

http://members.westnet.com.au/pkolb/bizz2.htm

the pro's and cons -

http://www.breathing.com/articles/buteyko.htm

So, Chopper, what evidence is there, apart from yourself, that Buteyko works for sleep apnea.

cheers

Mars

However if the same person resumes heavy volume mouth breathing { The sleep apnoea symptoms return } this forceful heavy mouth breathing creates a stronger vacuum in the lungs than gentle breathing does

There are plenty of us with sleep apnea who are NOT mouth breathers---either during the night or during the day.

There are plenty of us with sleep apnea who were symptom-free during the daytime before we were diagnosed---usually because our bed partner had become alarmed enough at our snoring or seeming to gasp for breath even though we, the sleep apnea sufferers, were NOT consciously waking up with a sense of "can't breathe" or "gasping for breath" and we, the sleep apnea sufferers, were not having any problems with daytime exhaustion or daytime sleepiness. In one sense, we're the lucky ones: We've been diagnosed before the apnea episodes have had a chance to do serious damage to our bodies.

"Curing" the day-time apnea symptoms does not mean the disease is being managed well enough to prevent the apnea from slowly damaging your body.

Just my two cents as a person who had no symptoms except a concerned spouse before my diagnosis and as someone who is having real trouble adjusting to CPAP.