Spoke with my Doctor

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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JoyD.
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by JoyD. » Sun May 31, 2009 11:15 am

Muffy wrote:
Get an absolutely fixed bedtime and awakening time, use it 7 days a week, do not drift. Sleep is a heap of biorhythms that must be set and/or taken advantage of.

At this point, no naps. Naps count towards total sleep time. Napping in the late afternoon might be a good idea for those people who need it and it doesn't affect their sleep, but if you're napping in the morning, that's not napping. That's part of a messed up night of sleep.

No alcohol, caffeine, chocolate, smoking.

Maybe a light snack before bed, no sugar. Stick to carbohydrates or dairy products.

Exercise program.

Cut BMI in half. [to "normal" for the rest of us]

Evaluate bedding for comfort. Cool room temperature. No noise (especially TV).

Relaxation techniques before bed. Yoga, deep breathing, Herb Benson. Clear mind. No computer before bed (the screen eats up the melatonin). No bright lights during the sleeping period.

Establish pre-sleep ritual.

Being female has associated sleep maintainance issues. Morph into Roger.

Bright light therapy-- as soon as you get up in the morning, go outside and get 15-30 minutes of face-sun.

A lavender sachet (lavender helps sleep).

Address any pain issues.

Optimize medications
Thanks, Muffy, for the very best Sleep Hygiene Recommendations I have read yet! I'm posting it in my bathroom to remind me I need to adhere strictly to this list if I am serious of optimizing my health.

Joy

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BleepingBeauty
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Sun May 31, 2009 11:39 am

Muffy wrote:
BleepingBeauty wrote:Aside from a pharmacological solution (which I will consider, if necessary) and going to bed earlier and on a regular basis, what can I do to improve this situation?
Pick out a "sleep hygiene" handout (Google, they're all over the place) and follow it to the letter. There is no wiggle room, no "bargaining", because your sleep architecture is marginal and you have symptoms (that's a very key point-- like naps are OK, but only if they don't disrupt your sleep).

Get an absolutely fixed bedtime and awakening time, use it 7 days a week, do not drift. Sleep is a heap of biorhythms that must be set and/or taken advantage of.
The fixed bedtime I can deal with; but how do I adopt a fixed awakening time? If I wake up too early, just stay in bed and wait for that time to arrive, even if I'm not sleeping?
At this point, no naps. Naps count towards total sleep time. Napping in the late afternoon might be a good idea for those people who need it and it doesn't affect their sleep, but if you're napping in the morning, that's not napping. That's part of a messed up night of sleep. In your case, I think all of your sleep needs to be consolidated during the night.
I was following that advice until recently. I'm sometimes just so tired that I can't keep my eyes open, no matter how hard I try to wake myself up, and I've allowed myself a nap with the machine (for an hour or so). But I'll get back to no napping at all, somehow.
No alcohol, caffeine, chocolate, smoking.
I can easily live without alcohol and with just an occasional taste of chocolate. But no caffeine? At all? Muff, you know I love ya, but yer killin' me here... I only drink two cups of coffee in the early morning as it is. Do I really have to give that little bit up?

Re: the smoking, I'm cutting down. I've quit many times in the past, and I'm not done trying to do it again and stay with it. It sure is hard, though. I've tried all kinds of things, including hypnotism, the patch, the pills. I'm working on it, but I can't go cold turkey.
Maybe a light snack before bed, no sugar. Stick to carbohydrates or dairy products.
Most often, if I'm wanting a snack in the evening, I have some fruit. It's usually a banana, an apple, a mango, or a pink grapefruit. Too much natural sugar? Sometimes it's marinated artichoke hearts or some hummus on crackers.
Exercise program.

Cut BMI in half.
Got it.
Evaluate bedding for comfort. Cool room temperature. No noise (especially TV).
I love my bed (Tempur-Pedic); most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on. Bedroom is always cool enough, whether via the breeze from outside, the ceiling fan, or the evaporative cooler in the summer. I like going to sleep with some low-volume background noise; it used to be the radio on a timer set to a mellow station, but I can't get good radio reception where I am now. So I put the tv on, tuned to the soft-rock XM station, with the volume very low, and set the timer for 15-30 minutes. Within a minute or two, the screen goes black, and I just faintly hear the music; but I fall asleep very quickly, and the music never keeps me awake. I just prefer something else in the background besides the white noise from my machine.
Relaxation techniques before bed. Yoga, deep breathing, Herb Benson. Clear mind. No computer before bed (the screen eats up the melatonin). No bright lights during the sleeping period.
I'm looking into learning yoga, and I'll wean myself away from the computer earlier in the evening. No bright lights in my room while I sleep; nightlight in the bathroom, but it's removed from my line of vision and is nowhere near bothersome at any time. Even the blue lights on my machine are no problem for me, although I've read here that they bother others quite a bit. As I live in the middle of nowhere, there are no street lights or other light sources to bother me at night. It's also very quiet around here.
Establish pre-sleep ritual.

Being female has associated sleep maintainance issues. Morph into Roger.
Oh, if only... Men have it so much easier than we do, in so many respects.
Bright light therapy-- as soon as you get up in the morning, go outside and get 15-30 minutes of face-sun.
Hmm. I make it a point to stay OUT of the sun here. My house is really bright, though, as the front faces E and the back faces W, and I have four skylights. Isn't that enough of a "light-jolt"?
A lavender sachet (lavender helps sleep).

Address any pain issues.
I'm not a "sachet" kinda gal, but I like the smell of lavender. No pain issues to speak of. Tendonitis in my shoulders, but it's taken care of with occasional cortisone shots, in lieu of surgery.
Optimize medications-- are you on anything else other than what's listed? (Baseline heart rate looks OK, could take a look at the graph of that, but chances are they don't generate it)(as in the levothyroxine creating issues).
No, I've listed everything I take. I'll speak with the PCP tomorrow about the thyroid med.
If I were to guess, I would say consolidating your sleep would do the most for improving architecture, followed closely by rigid sleep times to set the biorhythms (think of sleep as matching up a pile of undulating chemicals. If you're in the wrong place during a "peak" (or a "trough", depending on the chemical) you're trying to swim upstream.
Ok.
BleepingBeauty wrote:But this is making me scratch my head: Why does my new "CPAP Prescription" say that my AHI is 15.4? Where did that number come from?
Insurance coverage number, the AHI on ambient pressure. She probably made it up.
Ahh. Good to know I'm confused for a good reason.
BleepingBeauty wrote:My fear is that I'll choose the wrong machine and wind up in the same boat a year from now.
IMO, you could use a Shop-Vac with one end stuck in 12 cmH2O of "H2O" (just set it to "blow" instead of "suck") and "Warcraft" for software and be fine (fiddling with lowest effective pressure is your choice, but look what happens in every piece of data that has aggressive "fiddling"). Right now, your problem is not "sleep-disordered breathing", it's "sleep".

Muffy
Okay. Well, a simple data-capable straight CPAP will do me just fine, as long as I can see what's going on and make gradual changes as I see fit. Thanks, Muff.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Sun May 31, 2009 12:05 pm

-SWS wrote:
BleepingBeauty wrote:Cool. I'm looking at regular CPAP w/data capability right now. I know from past experience that autopap doesn't suit me well, although I don't know if I'd tolerate it better with a very narrow pressure range. But no matter. As long as I have data so I can make informed and time-tested adjustments, I'll be happy.
If you can't resist the urge to eventually try a narrow-range APAP, then get the 420e or Sandman Auto. That will at least give you the option of setting the machine up in a narrow range of snore response and various FL response patterns----while completely turning off the apnea pressure response if necessary. And much more importantly, you can run either of those machines in what will likely be far less-disruptive CPAP mode while collecting useful data. Possible caveat: no expiratory pressure relief on those two APAP models, if you happen to require it.
I wouldn't mind having an auto that would also work in straight CPAP mode. I would definitely utilize a very narrow range when in auto mode, though. Thanks for the suggested two auto's you mention.

I recently shut off my C-Flex completely. It was originally set at 3, and I haven't noticed much difference without it. As long as my pressure doesn't increase much from where it is now, I can live without exhalation relief.
More later about your other comments. Also to say that I think Muffy's professional analysis and comments are nothing short of stellar.
So, what else is new? (And the same goes for you, -SWS, and the assistance you offer me here.)
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

PR S1 ASV 950, DreamWear mask, F&P 150 humidifier, O2 @ 2L.

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robertmarilyn
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by robertmarilyn » Sun May 31, 2009 12:17 pm

BleepingBeauty wrote:
Muffy wrote: Get an absolutely fixed bedtime and awakening time, use it 7 days a week, do not drift. Sleep is a heap of biorhythms that must be set and/or taken advantage of.
The fixed bedtime I can deal with; but how do I adopt a fixed awakening time? If I wake up too early, just stay in bed and wait for that time to arrive, even if I'm not sleeping?

Sorry to pick on the smoking issue but do you think the addiction to smoking could be a factor in you not being able to sleep past a certain time each morning? Your body says it's smoking time NO no matter how much sleep you really need?
At this point, no naps. Naps count towards total sleep time. Napping in the late afternoon might be a good idea for those people who need it and it doesn't affect their sleep, but if you're napping in the morning, that's not napping. That's part of a messed up night of sleep. In your case, I think all of your sleep needs to be consolidated during the night.
I was following that advice until recently. I'm sometimes just so tired that I can't keep my eyes open, no matter how hard I try to wake myself up, and I've allowed myself a nap with the machine (for an hour or so). But I'll get back to no napping at all, somehow.

I know this will seem like it is impossible to do but it can really help you in several ways...when you feel so tired you can't keep your eyes open (except at bedtime), make yourself get up and go for a walk...it can be a short walk but just get up and do it. I cannot drive for more than two hours (and it is a struggle to even make it two hours) without having to sleep...I have found that if I will drive just ONE hour and then get out and walk (I make sure I am in a safe place), that I feel MUCH better. We need movement to counter how extremely tired we feel.
Maybe a light snack before bed, no sugar. Stick to carbohydrates or dairy products.
I can say that one good thing did come out of all the GERD problems I have been having since using the machine and that one good thing is that even though I didn't think I could do it before, the GERD forced me to make sure I didn't eat anything within 3 hours of going to bed. Having what you ate come up in your throat while you are sleeping is a very good motivation to not eat too close to bedtime. And now that I have gotten into the habit of not eating anything within three hours before bedtime, I don't want to let go of this habit...I can tell it makes me feel better and I have now gotten to where I don't think about food after that last meal/snack (three hours before bedtime). Taking a later snack totally out of the picture has taken the idea out of my mind. Pretty neat!
Exercise program.
Cut BMI in half.
Got it.

Start off where ever you are...if you are doing nothing...do 5 minutes today...it is possible and it can actually be used to help you with the plan to not take naps...feel tired (I know the feeling) get up and move...movement clears our minds and a clear mind will then allow us to remember the good things we want to do for our bodies...I get in the most trouble when I am trying to make decisions with a cloudy mind.
Establish pre-sleep ritual.

Being female has associated sleep maintainance issues. Morph into Roger.
MuffymorphedfromSAG should know (although I suspect that Muffy is too practical to waste time on silly rituals)! I'm not a very girly girl...being a tomboy type girl helps to keep all those girly girl rituals at bay
BleepingBeauty wrote:But this is making me scratch my head: Why does my new "CPAP Prescription" say that my AHI is 15.4? Where did that number come from?
Insurance coverage number, the AHI on ambient pressure. She probably made it up.
Ahh. Good to know I'm confused for a good reason.

I hate it when I am confused for a no good reason (which happens way too often in my case)

mar

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BleepingBeauty
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Sun May 31, 2009 1:31 pm

robertmarilyn wrote: Sorry to pick on the smoking issue but do you think the addiction to smoking could be a factor in you not being able to sleep past a certain time each morning? Your body says it's smoking time NO no matter how much sleep you really need?
No, I really don't. Like any normal person, I used to be able to sleep until the alarm went off (or later, if I didn't have the alarm set), and I wasn't dragging my a$$ around all day long. I've always been the type, though, that when I DO wake up, I'm up. I can lay in bed for awhile afterwards, but I'll only doze off again for a short period of time on occasion.
I'm sometimes just so tired that I can't keep my eyes open, no matter how hard I try to wake myself up, and I've allowed myself a nap with the machine (for an hour or so). But I'll get back to no napping at all, somehow.
I know this will seem like it is impossible to do but it can really help you in several ways...when you feel so tired you can't keep your eyes open (except at bedtime), make yourself get up and go for a walk...it can be a short walk but just get up and do it. I cannot drive for more than two hours (and it is a struggle to even make it two hours) without having to sleep...I have found that if I will drive just ONE hour and then get out and walk (I make sure I am in a safe place), that I feel MUCH better. We need movement to counter how extremely tired we feel.
I'll try that. Thanks, mar. I'll just have to make sure I'm not walking towards my bed.
Maybe a light snack before bed, no sugar. Stick to carbohydrates or dairy products.
I can say that one good thing did come out of all the GERD problems I have been having since using the machine and that one good thing is that even though I didn't think I could do it before, the GERD forced me to make sure I didn't eat anything within 3 hours of going to bed. Having what you ate come up in your throat while you are sleeping is a very good motivation to not eat too close to bedtime. And now that I have gotten into the habit of not eating anything within three hours before bedtime, I don't want to let go of this habit...I can tell it makes me feel better and I have now gotten to where I don't think about food after that last meal/snack (three hours before bedtime). Taking a later snack totally out of the picture has taken the idea out of my mind. Pretty neat!
I'm thankful that I don't also have to deal with GERD. No reflux for me. But I'll start eating dinner a little earlier than I have been (usually around 7:00 p.m.).
Start off where ever you are...if you are doing nothing...do 5 minutes today...it is possible and it can actually be used to help you with the plan to not take naps...feel tired (I know the feeling) get up and move...movement clears our minds and a clear mind will then allow us to remember the good things we want to do for our bodies...I get in the most trouble when I am trying to make decisions with a cloudy mind.
Well, I can't start off anywhere BUT where I am right now. (J/K. And your point is taken.)
BleepingBeauty wrote:Good to know I'm confused for a good reason.
I hate it when I am confused for a no good reason (which happens way too often in my case)

mar
Me, too. That's why this place is so important to a newbie, who's starting out behind the proverbial 8-ball, with a fuzzy brain.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

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You Are Definitely NOT a CompSAS... Maybe

Post by Muffy » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:57 am

BleepingBeauty wrote:I'll speak with the PCP tomorrow...
See if you can get recent lab work called "electrolytes", looking specifically for HCO3-, Total CO2, plasma CO2 or something similar.

Have you ever had a Pulmonary Function Test of any sort?

The balance of sleep and wake (or perhaps, the "battle" of sleep and wake) is intriguing in that the forces of wake peak just a little before the time that one starts heading off to bed:

Image

Once you get all that other stuff under way, another consideration will be if you're simply a "lark", and your relatively late bedtimes are contrary to where you need to be.

Muffy
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BleepingBeauty
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Re: You Are Definitely NOT a CompSAS... Maybe

Post by BleepingBeauty » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:48 am

Muffy wrote:
BleepingBeauty wrote:I'll speak with the PCP tomorrow...
See if you can get recent lab work called "electrolytes", looking specifically for HCO3-, Total CO2, plasma CO2 or something similar.
I have a copy of my lab work results from March, but it doesn't list any of the above. Under "Tests Ordered," it says "CBC w/Differential/Platelet; Comp. Metabolic Panel (14); Lipid Panel; Hemoglobin Alc; TSH." I assume the PCP plans to repeat the same tests with today's blood draw, but I'll mention the electrolytes and see if that can't be added into the mix.
Have you ever had a Pulmonary Function Test of any sort?
Not to my knowledge, no. I'll mention that to the PCP today, too.
The balance of sleep and wake (or perhaps, the "battle" of sleep and wake) is intriguing in that the forces of wake peak just a little before the time that one starts heading off to bed:
That's interesting. Kinda screwy (a cruel joke?), but interesting.
Once you get all that other stuff under way, another consideration will be if you're simply a "lark", and your relatively late bedtimes are contrary to where you need to be.

Muffy
I've always been a bit of a night-owl. (What is it with the bird analogies? In truth, I'm not a lark or a night-owl; I'm a Robin. ) But back in the day, I worked an evening shift (5p to midnight) and got home at about 1:00 a.m. With time to wind down, I never got to sleep much before 3:00 a.m. and would sleep until 10:00 or so the next morning. Personally, I liked that schedule, as it seemed to coincide with my natural tendencies to be awake later in the evening and sleep later into the day. But in retrospect, perhaps it simply exacerbated a problem that already existed.

For the record, I've been in bed AT 10:30 the past few nights, and I've slept through til my usual (more or less) wake time of 5:30, so getting to bed earlier does seem to be positively affecting the amount of sleep I'm getting. I have to temper that conclusion, though, because two other changes have been implemented recently w/my therapy that might be contributing factors: I changed the pressure from 14 to 12, per my sleep doc's recommendation, and I shut off the C-Flex on my machine.

Thanks, Muffin.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

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twasbrillig
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significance and cause of centrals

Post by twasbrillig » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:00 am

BB - did you have centrals in your first, diagnostic study?

I only had centrals in one of my titration studies, and I am beginning to think they were caused by a "mouth leak", i.e., the tongue seal gave way as pressure was increased . I noticed that when I was adjusting to higher pressures in my home CPAP treatment (at almost any time in my CPAP voyage) I would inevitably wake up with the tongue seal in my mouth broken. Whether I had a nasal or a full face mask, it seemed that this confused my body as to whether I needed to take a new breath, and resulted in a prolonged exhalation. My body somehow adjusted to each level of pressure, and I found that the tongue seal seemed to strengthen over time, and then the "mouth leak" (and perhaps, thus, the so-called "centrals") disappeared.

Does anyone know how mouth leak shows up on the hypnogram or in the lab's data? Also, what effect does it have on your therapy? I know with a nasal mask, you completely lose pressure. But my guess would be that with a full face, it creates turbulence which reduces the effective pressure, and that this does not show up in the leak rate or in any of the other data, (except in my case, to look like a central because it delayed my taking a new breath.)

I haven't tried BiPAP or autoPap, but I am hoping that reducing the pressure on expiration will put less pressure on the tongue seal and keep me in the game at higher pressures.

On the topic of exercise, just to give MTCW (my two cents worth?) I agree that not only is exercise a difficult thing to get your mind around when you are exhausted, but in my case, the general inefficiency of my life reduces the amount of time I have available for ANYTHING. (I don't have a social life, either!!!) Using an elliptical machine allows me to multi-task and watch favorite videos. It just seems like it is not depriving me of anything else, and giving me the double pleasure of both exercise and entertainment. I actually like to exercise, it's just so hard to give it the time when there are some many other demands. Also, one of the great advantages of elliptical is the perceived rate of exercise is low. In other words, you feel like you are not working as hard as you are. It adusts, so that when you are having a truly, truly awful day, you can take it really easy. They can be really cheap and small, too.

BB- I have the same inability to continue sleeping with CPAP. Some where between 4 and 5 am each morning, I give up trying to go back to sleep, take off the mask, and sleep on my stomach. I am still extremely tired, despite 4 and 1/2 to 5 hours of supposedly therapeutic use. I have been doing that Cognitive Behavior Therapy like an ace, but it does not help. I am pretty sure my underlying respiratory issues are not being effectively addressed. Hence, CPAP is still conditioning me to wake up (and breathe!), just as my untreated respiratory disturbances have always done. Your case reminds me so much of mine, I will be so interested to see what you are able to determine about optimal treatment.
Why does everyone else post cutesy avatars, and I'm the only one who posts a picture of myself?

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Re: significance and cause of centrals

Post by BleepingBeauty » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:43 am

twasbrillig wrote:BB - did you have centrals in your first, diagnostic study?
Boy, did I! LOL

My initial study (split-night) results:

Image

My first titration:

Image
I only had centrals in one of my titration studies, and I am beginning to think they were caused by a "mouth leak", i.e., the tongue seal gave way as pressure was increased.
I wore an Ultra Mirage FFM during my split-night and my first titration, so I don't know that mouth-leaks played a part in my results. I know they're an issue for me now, with my Swift LT and a chinstrap, but my doctor tells me that my leak rate is acceptable.
I noticed that when I was adjusting to higher pressures in my home CPAP treatment (at almost any time in my CPAP voyage) I would inevitably wake up with the tongue seal in my mouth broken.
When I sleep, I'm unaware of awakenings for anything other than a trip to the bathroom (which happens only occasionally these days; I used to be up 3-4 times a night for that reason, pre-therapy) or to re-seat my nasal pillows. When I awaken for the day, my mouth is closed and I'm breathing through my nasal mask. So I don't know if the tongue seal is being broken during the night.
Does anyone know how mouth leak shows up on the hypnogram or in the lab's data? Also, what effect does it have on your therapy? I know with a nasal mask, you completely lose pressure. But my guess would be that with a full face, it creates turbulence which reduces the effective pressure, and that this does not show up in the leak rate or in any of the other data, (except in my case, to look like a central because it delayed my taking a new breath.)
It's my understanding (and take that from whence it comes) that a FFM doesn't allow for any pressure to be "lost" when mouth-breathing.
I haven't tried BiPAP or autoPap, but I am hoping that reducing the pressure on expiration will put less pressure on the tongue seal and keep me in the game at higher pressures.
I've been through four trial periods with an APAP, and none of those experiences was positive. If you're interested, I've posted the results from each of those trial periods (http://s675.photobucket.com/albums/vv12 ... ingBeauty/) under "Daily Details." But I'm not dealing with simple OSA, so I'm sure your mileage WILL vary. Up until very recently, I was using the C-Flex on my machine set at 3. I now have the C-Flex shut off entirely. Without data, I can't be sure that this change is making an appreciable difference, but I think it is.
On the topic of exercise, just to give MTCW (my two cents worth?) I agree that not only is exercise a difficult thing to get your mind around when you are exhausted, but in my case, the general inefficiency of my life reduces the amount of time I have available for ANYTHING. (I don't have a social life, either!!!)
Same here.
Using an elliptical machine allows me to multi-task and watch favorite videos. It just seems like it is not depriving me of anything else, and giving me the double pleasure of both exercise and entertainment. I actually like to exercise, it's just so hard to give it the time when there are some many other demands. Also, one of the great advantages of elliptical is the perceived rate of exercise is low. In other words, you feel like you are not working as hard as you are. It adusts, so that when you are having a truly, truly awful day, you can take it really easy. They can be really cheap and small, too.
I have an exercise machine, called the Health Rider. I like it because it puts no undue strain on my knees (which have suffered damage from falls in the past - one, in particular, where I fell down a flight of stairs and landed on both knees smack dab in the middle of a concrete slab). My problem with using the machine is my lack of energy, but I'm working on that. Walking is easier for me.
BB- I have the same inability to continue sleeping with CPAP. Some where between 4 and 5 am each morning, I give up trying to go back to sleep, take off the mask, and sleep on my stomach. I am still extremely tired, despite 4 and 1/2 to 5 hours of supposedly therapeutic use.
I never take the mask off when I'm in bed. I'm just one of those people who, when I wake up, I'm UP. I take the mask off and get out of bed. I can't sleep on my stomach, for anatomical reasons. Things get in the way.
Your case reminds me so much of mine, I will be so interested to see what you are able to determine about optimal treatment.
Well, I sure hope that my experience (and the help I'm receiving here from the "pro's") is helpful to others who are dealing with similar issues. Stay tuned, twas.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

PR S1 ASV 950, DreamWear mask, F&P 150 humidifier, O2 @ 2L.

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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by howkim » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:19 am

BleepingBeauty wrote:I take my prescription drugs, a multivitamin, and Niacin in the morning, and fish oil capsules with lunch and dinner.
Oh, PLEASE tell me that you take the levothyroxine by itself! It doesn't play well with others.
Muffy wrote:Taking levothyroxin at night can generate insomnia, but that would have been too easy.
Sometimes. But lots of folks on the About.com thyroid board swear that taking it at night helps them sleep better.

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BleepingBeauty
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:43 pm

Well, I saw the PCP this morning and had my blood drawn. Here's the info I came away with:

I asked when I was started on the three meds I take. Triamterene/HCTZ started near the end of September, 2007 (just before my first sleep study), and Lisinopril and L-Thyroxine were begun in October of 2008.

I take my prescription drugs in the morning, usually all at the same time, along with the multivitamin and the Niacin. I'll now be taking the thyroid med by itself, and then take the others 15-30 minutes later.

The doctor is switching me from Lisinopril to Atenolol, due to the dry cough I've been experiencing.

I'm scheduled for a PFT on Thursday, at which time I'll also get a copy of this current lab report.

Re: the lab work: I asked about the Free T3 test, and the doc tells me it'll be included in this current blood panel. Says they normally don't check for that unless there appears to be a problem, and I didn't exhibit a problem in the results of my last blood panel in March (my TSH was 2.38). But they'll include it.

I asked about lab work re: electrolytes, and he says my numbers are fine. (Muffy, darlin', you have to remember that I'm a layperson and don't know what "electrolytes" corresponds to on my lab report.) The doctor pointed out where they are on the paperwork from March and, sure enough, all of those numbers are within the normal range:

Sodium, Serum - 135
Potassium, Serum - 4.3
Chloride, Serum - 98
Carbon Dioxide, Total - 25
Calcium, Serum - 9.3

If any of that should change on the new report I'll get Thursday, I'll let you know.

I think that covers all the questions I was going to ask my doctor. Since I'll be back at his office on Thursday, if there's anything else I should be asking, let me know.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

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SaltLakeJan
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by SaltLakeJan » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:08 pm

When I originally read your thread, You pursued an answer without stopping, I believe you will show that same determination in creating the new and healthier BBHi Beauty,
I got a bit of sleep last night, and my eyes are a "tad" better so I wanted to know how you were doing. And, I see like me, parts of your life are being turned upside down. Muffy outdid herself, her "Document Proposing Better Health and Sleep"
probably applies to half the people on this forum. As I read it today, the Wisdom Light bulb lit, part of her plan for you, fits me so well, I was shocked. My mother claims I was born with insomnia, and maybe I was, but I have not never EVER made a plan to combat it. If I am a bit sleepy and have a great book, I'll grab a cuppa and I'm good for an all-nighter.

And you said:
BleepingBeauty wrote:I've always been a bit of a night-owl. But back in the day, I worked an evening shift (5p to midnight) and got home at about 1:00 a.m. With time to wind down, I never got to sleep much before 3:00 a.m. and would sleep until 10:00 or so the next morning. Personally, I liked that schedule, as it seemed to coincide with my natural tendencies to be awake later in the evening and sleep later into the day. But in retrospect, perhaps it simply exacerbated a problem that already existed.
I have never worked an evening shift, but that schedule would fit my plans perfectly.

Muffy, if you read this post, know that I think you are amazing. Doctors have never suggested I formulate a plan for better sleep. It has always been, "So you have insomnia, do you want something to fix that?"

I am impressed how open you are to make changes in your life. First, the ol bugaboo, smoking. Once you are tied into that habit, it is hard to overcome it. It shows how comitted you are, that you have managed to cut your cigarettes down to 18 a day. How did you do that?
BleepingBeauty wrote:Re: the smoking, I'm cutting down. I've quit many times in the past, and I'm not done trying to do it again and stay with it. It sure is hard, though. I've tried all kinds of things, including hypnotism, the patch, the pills. I'm working on it, but I can't go cold turkey.
I'm sure you have considered eliminating one cigaretta a day. You have amazing will power and you are a fighter, I think you could do that.

In our family, my Dad started smoking at 13, and spent the rest of his life trying to quit. He died at 62, his parents were living and didn't die until well over 90. His inability to quit, and his terrible morning caugh, were actually good news for me. When you witness someone caugh for 45 minutes every morning, and know that his inability to stop smoking is the cause, The only thing that created in me, was a desire not to follow him.. My mother and brother smoked, but were able to quit.

I've got to formulate my own plan. I'm considering making an outline of the things I want to change, and giving them to a good friend of mine. And, ask her to call me each morning, and go thru the check list. I'll think about it a liittle more.
She has very good health habits, and it would be embarassing for me to admit to her, that on a whim, I stayed up til 4:30 am just to see what was happening on CPAPtalk.com. She would suggest to me, there is something very wrong with my thinking. You will make awsome plans for yourself, Best to you, Jan

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howkim
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by howkim » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:20 pm

BleepingBeauty wrote:I'll now be taking the thyroid med by itself, and then take the others 15-30 minutes later.
If you can manage to separate everything else by at least an hour, it's better. If the multivitamin has calcium or iron in it, it probably should be taken at noon, as they REALLY stop absorption of T4. If you want the references, I can send them.
BleepingBeauty wrote:I asked about the Free T3 test, and the doc tells me it'll be included in this current blood panel.
Bet it's not the right one. Bet they'll do the T3 Uptake, which is really a measure of the T4 receptors that are not occupied. The right test is the Free T3. Free T4 wouldn't hurt either. (Free T3 is an expensive test to run, BTW.)

[rant] The T3 Uptake has only one function, to calculate an estimate of the T4 level. I don't know why they insist on doing it that way when there are direct measures of T4 available now. That are more accurate.[end rant]

ETA: By the way, don't count on a referral to an endocrinologist to help with your thyroid. Overall, they're cluless on thyroids and mostly focus on diabetes. One of my friends on the thyroid board suggests that folks try their PCPs and GYNs (as appropriate) first, then try "anti-aging" docs. If and only if there's no other choice for some strange reason, an endo might work. Odds are not favorable on that, though.

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BleepingBeauty
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Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:53 pm

SaltLakeJan wrote:When I originally read your thread, You pursued an answer without stopping, I believe you will show that same determination in creating the new and healthier BBHi Beauty,
Thanks, Jan. I can be tenacious when I have to be.
I got a bit of sleep last night, and my eyes are a "tad" better so I wanted to know how you were doing.
Thanks! And I'm sure glad to hear you're feeling a little better. A little progress every day, and you'll be good as new in no time.
And, I see like me, parts of your life are being turned upside down. Muffy outdid herself, her "Document Proposing Better Health and Sleep" probably applies to half the people on this forum.
Probably. Except for the "Cut BMI in half" (which was directed at just me). As Joy so pointedly noted, the goal for everyone is to have a normal BMI.
As I read it today, the Wisdom Light bulb lit, part of her plan for you, fits me so well, I was shocked. My mother claims I was born with insomnia, and maybe I was, but I have not never EVER made a plan to combat it. If I am a bit sleepy and have a great book, I'll grab a cuppa and I'm good for an all-nighter.
The last time I couldn't put a book down (which resulted in anything even close to an all-nighter), I was in high school. I just can't do that to my body anymore. I'm tired enough as it is.
And you said:
BleepingBeauty wrote:I've always been a bit of a night-owl. But back in the day, I worked an evening shift (5p to midnight) and got home at about 1:00 a.m. With time to wind down, I never got to sleep much before 3:00 a.m. and would sleep until 10:00 or so the next morning. Personally, I liked that schedule, as it seemed to coincide with my natural tendencies to be awake later in the evening and sleep later into the day. But in retrospect, perhaps it simply exacerbated a problem that already existed.
I have never worked an evening shift, but that schedule would fit my plans perfectly.
Yes, it sure seemed to suit me at the time. I loved that schedule. Whether or not it's now haunting me, I'll never know. What I do know is I can't do that anymore, even if the opportunity presents itself.
I am impressed how open you are to make changes in your life. First, the ol bugaboo, smoking. Once you are tied into that habit, it is hard to overcome it. It shows how comitted you are, that you have managed to cut your cigarettes down to 18 a day. How did you do that?
Well commitment is a tricky thing. I've quit smoking many times, and yet I don't stay quit. The longest I've been a non-smoker was for about six months. But the tiniest trigger can set me off again, no matter how good I feel about NOT smoking nor how proud I am to have quit - again. I've heard that quitting cigarettes is harder than quitting heroin. I have no experience with the latter, but I don't doubt the statement is true.

I've never been what I would call a very heavy smoker, but I've been smoking for many years. Usually around a pack a day, with some periods where I'd smoke 1.5 packs a day. But never more than that, and never what people think of as a chain-smoker, lighting the next one before putting this one out or anything like that. I've known people like that.

I kinda trick myself with little "rules" I impose. For instance, I won't smoke in my house. So I force myself to go outside to smoke (or into my garage with the outer door open), even in the winter. I can't smoke as often with that kind of imposition applied, so it helps me cut down. If I'm in the car for a 2-hour trek, I'll let myself have one cigarette. That kind of thing.

As with my diet, I find that keeping track of what I'm doing helps me stay focused and on-track. Keeping the meal chart helps me stick to the food plan. Same thing with smoking: If I keep track of how many cigarettes I smoke each day, I'm far less likely to go over the goal I have in my mind. Awareness is the key, for me.
BleepingBeauty wrote:Re: the smoking, I'm cutting down. I've quit many times in the past, and I'm not done trying to do it again and stay with it. It sure is hard, though. I've tried all kinds of things, including hypnotism, the patch, the pills. I'm working on it, but I can't go cold turkey.
I'm sure you have considered eliminating one cigaretta a day. You have amazing will power and you are a fighter, I think you could do that.
Thanks, but if my willpower truly was amazing, I wouldn't be a smoker at all. It's definitely a struggle, but I'll keep working on it.
In our family, my Dad started smoking at 13, and spent the rest of his life trying to quit. He died at 62, his parents were living and didn't die until well over 90. His inability to quit, and his terrible morning caugh, were actually good news for me. When you witness someone caugh for 45 minutes every morning, and know that his inability to stop smoking is the cause, The only thing that created in me, was a desire not to follow him.. My mother and brother smoked, but were able to quit.
I'm glad that listening to your dad's difficulties every morning made it so much easier for you to decide not to go there. I didn't have that deterrent. My family situation re: smoking is interesting. Both of my parents were smokers when I was growing up. Used to absolutely LOVE the smell of my mother's cig when she would first light up. My older brother and I are both smokers, and the younger two sibs cannot STAND it and have never smoked. Go figure.
I've got to formulate my own plan. I'm considering making an outline of the things I want to change, and giving them to a good friend of mine. And, ask her to call me each morning, and go thru the check list. I'll think about it a liittle more.
She has very good health habits, and it would be embarassing for me to admit to her, that on a whim, I stayed up til 4:30 am just to see what was happening on CPAPtalk.com. She would suggest to me, there is something very wrong with my thinking. You will make awsome plans for yourself, Best to you, Jan
If having someone hold you to your goals and keep you on-track will work for you, I think that's a great idea. Good luck, if you decide to try it. I fear I'm too independent for a plan like that, and I might end up resenting the friend for their well-meaning (not to mention asked-for) intervention. I'd likely find the finger-wags to be off-putting.

But that's just me. I hope it works very well for you.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

PR S1 ASV 950, DreamWear mask, F&P 150 humidifier, O2 @ 2L.

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BleepingBeauty
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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:30 pm
Location: Aridzona ;-)

Re: Spoke with my Doctor

Post by BleepingBeauty » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:06 pm

howkim wrote:
BleepingBeauty wrote:I'll now be taking the thyroid med by itself, and then take the others 15-30 minutes later.
If you can manage to separate everything else by at least an hour, it's better. If the multivitamin has calcium or iron in it, it probably should be taken at noon, as they REALLY stop absorption of T4. If you want the references, I can send them.
Thanks, howkim. I can definitely separate the meds (and the supplements) the way you suggest.
BleepingBeauty wrote:I asked about the Free T3 test, and the doc tells me it'll be included in this current blood panel.
Bet it's not the right one. Bet they'll do the T3 Uptake, which is really a measure of the T4 receptors that are not occupied. The right test is the Free T3. Free T4 wouldn't hurt either. (Free T3 is an expensive test to run, BTW.)
I don't know. When I questioned the gal who was taking my blood this morning about the Free T3, she did mention something about Armour something-or-other; I know I read something about that in mar's thread, but I don't remember the full name now. I guess I'll find out on Thursday, when I get the results.
[rant] The T3 Uptake has only one function, to calculate an estimate of the T4 level. I don't know why they insist on doing it that way when there are direct measures of T4 available now. That are more accurate.[end rant]

ETA: By the way, don't count on a referral to an endocrinologist to help with your thyroid. Overall, they're cluless on thyroids and mostly focus on diabetes. One of my friends on the thyroid board suggests that folks try their PCPs and GYNs (as appropriate) first, then try "anti-aging" docs. If and only if there's no other choice for some strange reason, an endo might work. Odds are not favorable on that, though.
Rant on, if it helps. I've gotten the names of several physicians who might be able to work with me on the thyroid issue (if, indeed, there IS an issue that needs further attention) from thyroid-info.com. Several of them are listed as naturopathic physicians, and there's one listed as an integrative practitioner. We'll see how the results look, and I'll take it from there.

Thanks for the helpful info.
Veni, vidi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around.

Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. ;))

PR S1 ASV 950, DreamWear mask, F&P 150 humidifier, O2 @ 2L.