COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:24 pm

DreamDiver wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:22 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:16 pm
Well said,well thought out, very rational,and unfortunately going in one ear and out though the empty heads of far too many people who can't see past the ends of their noses.

Surely there is a threshold over which at some point every living person will be able to clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. Yet this continues to be my wish.

I've seen no evidence of this to be the case. There are too many that are willfully ignorant these days.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:29 pm

jnk... wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:20 pm
Somewhere between "oh my!" and "yikes!":

"There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection," [WHO] said.--https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2270FB
I ain't no expert, but that makes me wonder about the nearness of any easy, workable, universal approach for a vaccine in the next few years.

Not sure my hunker can go that far down.

Here, have a video from someone with a nice accent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylot5uGyyLA

"We don't know yet"

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:58 pm

Blood clots, stroke, pulmonary emoblism:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... m-strokes/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ients.html

https://katu.com/news/coronavirus/new-c ... e-under-50

Not old 'ready to die for the economy' people... rather, the '*source* of the economy' people.

And then there's other things to watch out for, if you love someone elderly:

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/senior ... ctors-say/

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:27 pm

Relevant to all the lockdown protesters:

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-sa ... virus-1918

You know... HISTORY.

colomom · Post by **colomom** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:32 pm

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:47 am
makes me sad that this country has lost the ability to have these tough conversations civilly. I almost wish social media had never been invented. It sure seems like it amplifies the polarization.

I agree wholeheartedly with this part of your post!

I hate to point out to you that perhaps you have fallen victim to the very thing you are decrying.
You seem to be a nice person, yet you parroted a ridiculous (thankfully limited) GOP talking point that essentially claims economic gains are more important than human life

.

This virus is a nightmare, don’t allow your self to be complacent. AZ has a high amount of elderly residents, when it hits you it will hit hard. Available medical resources vary greatly in AZ, there may be beds available in Phoenix, but in the Navajo Nation which is one of the highest per capita places in the nation with COVID19, resources are scarce.

AZ like NY and every other state, is receiving lots of federal assistance. Despite what the talking heads say, AZ is begging for and has accepted federal money and help as has every state in the nation.

I hate to get political, but it needs to be said. There was a time when the Republican Party stood for principles, that time has disappeared under Trump.
When the party that once called themselves “prolife” advocates sacrificing the elderly, those with preexisting conditions, and the many young who succumb to COVID19 to save our 401Ks; that party has lost its soul.

Signed,
An independent voter in formally purple Colorado who for the first time in my life plans to vote solid blue during the next election.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 pm

DreamDiver wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:34 am
This seems useful...

A plan to defeat coronavirus finally emerges, but it’s not from the White House
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... -strategy/

oh. that's too bad. was going to read the article, finally, so that i could comment. but it's pay walled.
and i won't subscribe to read news.

can you tell me? is this article in relation to google and apple coming up with tracking apps?

i take it from baby's reaction that it is.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:55 pm

colomom wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:32 pm
I hate to get political, but it needs to be said. There was a time when the Republican Party stood for principles, that time has disappeared under Trump, er, Reagan, er, Nixon.

Fixed that for you.

colomom wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:32 pm
When the party that once called themselves “prolife” advocates sacrificing the elderly, those with preexisting conditions, and the many young who succumb to COVID19 to save our 401Ks; that party has lost its soul.

HAH, this is just further proof that the only 'pro-life' aspects are for unborn babies... once that baby's out in the world, they couldn't possibly care less, thus the cuts to all sorts of assistance programs, including children's health services.

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:56 pm

"Oh, I don't need a MASK! I feel FINE!"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2270RX

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:40 pm

Oh, for all you "reopeners" out there....

Be careful where you browse:

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/20/04/2 ... edium=feed

Or... *shrug* don't.

JayDee · Post by **JayDee** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:19 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:03 am
What I do and what I recommend...I treat myself like I have the virus and I treat everyone else like they have virus.
I treat myself that way just in case I might be an asymptomatic carrier and I sure don't want to spread it to anyone much less my own mother. I treat others that way because I want to minimize the risk that I might catch it and become one of those carriers who either spreads it without knowing it or maybe just spreads it before I might show symptoms. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we have at the moment.

Apologies in advance for the novel length post...

Folks who are in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group (Older, pre-existing serious issues like cardio/pulmonary issues, cancer pts, immune system issues, etc) should NOT NEED to be told/ordered to self-isolate & shelter in place unless absolutely necessary - they should already know to do so. Comparatively healthy folks who know someone in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group should NOT NEED to be told/ordered to stay away from them unless absolutely necessary - they should already know to do so.

However, everyone has to get groceries (or whatever) sooner or later. When it is absolutely necessary to expose anyone in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group to risk, everyone on both sides should be taking all reasonable precautions: gloves, masks, disinfect everything, limit time of exposure, etc. If you see someone with a mask on, presume they are vulnerable or infected and maintain your distance. If you are vulnerable, you should know to maintain a safe distance from others. Do what you have to do, don't dally and get thee back home and disinfect everything you brought with you, including yourself, your car, your clothes/shoes - everything. Surely that does not need to be said. We all know what to do. It's been drilled into us repeatedly almost every day for over a month now. There can't be anyone left who can plausibly claim, "but, I didn't know".

If we can do that, then I don't really care if those who are generally healthy and NOT in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group go out and about and reopen their businesses and go back to work. "Flattening the curve" was never intended to stop/kill the virus' it was intended to avoid overloading the hospitals. In highly dense urban areas, this absolutely makes sense. NYC has something like 8 million people living stacked atop each other like cord-wood. They can't blink their eyes without bumping into someone. But in rural Iowa, there's plenty of room to go around and folks don't necessarily need to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain a safe distance. There are all manner of varying local circumstances in between.

There is no "one size fits all solution" that Washington, or even the Governors, can come up with. If they are waiting on an order from the government telling them what to do, then they are betting their lives on a "one size fits none" hero to save them. Frankly, if we are individually sitting on our hands waiting for someone from the govt to come tell us what to do, then we are already doomed. We are adults who can make rational decisions. Anyone reading this has the internet at their fingertips. We should each, individually, understand the precautions that are most effective for our own circumstances. If I'm in NYC and in the vulnerable group, I'm not leaving home unless dragged out against my will and I'm having everything delivered & disinfected as much as possible. If I'm farming in southern IA, going out and about is not as much of a risk as it is in NYC. It's spring planting time and they need to be allowed to get out and work. Time is of the essence for them.

To be sure, there is no completely risk-free scenario. Inevitably, vulnerable folks who should have avoided infection will unwittingly drop their guard and allow close contact with someone infected (known or unknown). Blame for any unnecessary exposure goes BOTH ways, but I would tend to allot a bit more of the blame on the vulnerable themselves. I may not be able to spot someone who is infected, but like Pugsy said, I should presume EVERYONE is infected. Especially so if I know full well if I am in the vulnerable group (and more likely than not, I SHOULD know if I am in the vulnerable group). Knowing that I am in the vulnerable group, do I not bear the majority of the responsibility to be diligent and avoid complacency and maintain my isolation from others?

If I know (or you alert me, or if I suspect) that you are vulnerable, I will afford you every courtesy and take all protective measures I reasonably can and yield plenty of room to you. But I take no responsibility for someone who is vulnerable who approaches me unannounced and uninvited. Short of rounding up the vulnerable and putting them in "protection camps", I don't know if there's anything we can do but TRY to stay diligent and accept the fact we won't be able to place everyone in a protective bubble.

The virus is not containable and it is well established within the population. It is not going anywhere until it has completely run it's natural course. There is nothing the (local/state/federal) govt can do to stop it. We can perhaps try to slow it down, but even that has limits of reasonableness.

The big corps and the rich don't give a darn about being shutdown because they can weather this storm just fine. But I know some folks (who are NOT in the vulnerable group) who live paycheck to paycheck and who have not seen a full paycheck in over a month now. They are getting ABSOLUTELY desperate and they don't have 401k's to worry about -- they are worried about being a month behind on bills (mortgage/rent, car, electric, water, phone, credit-cards, etc -- all add up to way more than $1200 and the creditors all still want their money) and they somehow still need to be able to afford groceries. Those arguing for a continued shutdown do not seem to appreciate just how desperate those folks are getting, especially in the suburban and rural areas. It's becoming a powder keg and something has to give.

Here in GA, we are starting to reopen. The misconception is that the Governor just opened the floodgates and he did no such thing. The restrictions allow particular types of businesses to reopen, but with a laundry list of protective measures they are required to follow. The vast majority of those businesses can't reopen because they can't meet the precautionary requirements. Also, the governor did not order anyone to open, nor did he order folks to leave their homes and venture out. Those are decisions left to the individual.

So, it is not an "either/or" situation. We can reasonably protect the most vulnerable *and* reasonably reopen the economy. Both the healthy and vulnerable folks know the risks and the protective measures they can take to help mitigate those risks. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

We are about to find out, here in GA. There are two ways it can go: The phased reopening might lead to a significant increase in rates of hospitalization and mortality -OR- the reopening may result in little to no difference at all. If it does NOT result in a any significant increase, folks (correctly or not) may begin to wonder if the economy was shut down unnecessarily. But it may go the other way. Time will tell.

babydinosnoreless · Post by **babydinosnoreless** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:37 am

JayDee wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:19 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:03 am
What I do and what I recommend...I treat myself like I have the virus and I treat everyone else like they have virus.
I treat myself that way just in case I might be an asymptomatic carrier and I sure don't want to spread it to anyone much less my own mother. I treat others that way because I want to minimize the risk that I might catch it and become one of those carriers who either spreads it without knowing it or maybe just spreads it before I might show symptoms. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we have at the moment.
Apologies in advance for the novel length post...

Folks who are in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group (Older, pre-existing serious issues like cardio/pulmonary issues, cancer pts, immune system issues, etc) should NOT NEED to be told/ordered to self-isolate & shelter in place unless absolutely necessary - they should already know to do so. Comparatively healthy folks who know someone in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group should NOT NEED to be told/ordered to stay away from them unless absolutely necessary - they should already know to do so.

However, everyone has to get groceries (or whatever) sooner or later. When it is absolutely necessary to expose anyone in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group to risk, everyone on both sides should be taking all reasonable precautions: gloves, masks, disinfect everything, limit time of exposure, etc. If you see someone with a mask on, presume they are vulnerable or infected and maintain your distance. If you are vulnerable, you should know to maintain a safe distance from others. Do what you have to do, don't dally and get thee back home and disinfect everything you brought with you, including yourself, your car, your clothes/shoes - everything. Surely that does not need to be said. We all know what to do. It's been drilled into us repeatedly almost every day for over a month now. There can't be anyone left who can plausibly claim, "but, I didn't know".

If we can do that, then I don't really care if those who are generally healthy and NOT in the "Most Vulnerable/At Risk" group go out and about and reopen their businesses and go back to work. "Flattening the curve" was never intended to stop/kill the virus' it was intended to avoid overloading the hospitals. In highly dense urban areas, this absolutely makes sense. NYC has something like 8 million people living stacked atop each other like cord-wood. They can't blink their eyes without bumping into someone. But in rural Iowa, there's plenty of room to go around and folks don't necessarily need to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain a safe distance. There are all manner of varying local circumstances in between.

There is no "one size fits all solution" that Washington, or even the Governors, can come up with. If they are waiting on an order from the government telling them what to do, then they are betting their lives on a "one size fits none" hero to save them. Frankly, if we are individually sitting on our hands waiting for someone from the govt to come tell us what to do, then we are already doomed. We are adults who can make rational decisions. Anyone reading this has the internet at their fingertips. We should each, individually, understand the precautions that are most effective for our own circumstances. If I'm in NYC and in the vulnerable group, I'm not leaving home unless dragged out against my will and I'm having everything delivered & disinfected as much as possible. If I'm farming in southern IA, going out and about is not as much of a risk as it is in NYC. It's spring planting time and they need to be allowed to get out and work. Time is of the essence for them.

To be sure, there is no completely risk-free scenario. Inevitably, vulnerable folks who should have avoided infection will unwittingly drop their guard and allow close contact with someone infected (known or unknown). Blame for any unnecessary exposure goes BOTH ways, but I would tend to allot a bit more of the blame on the vulnerable themselves. I may not be able to spot someone who is infected, but like Pugsy said, I should presume EVERYONE is infected. Especially so if I know full well if I am in the vulnerable group (and more likely than not, I SHOULD know if I am in the vulnerable group). Knowing that I am in the vulnerable group, do I not bear the majority of the responsibility to be diligent and avoid complacency and maintain my isolation from others?

If I know (or you alert me, or if I suspect) that you are vulnerable, I will afford you every courtesy and take all protective measures I reasonably can and yield plenty of room to you. But I take no responsibility for someone who is vulnerable who approaches me unannounced and uninvited. Short of rounding up the vulnerable and putting them in "protection camps", I don't know if there's anything we can do but TRY to stay diligent and accept the fact we won't be able to place everyone in a protective bubble.

The virus is not containable and it is well established within the population. It is not going anywhere until it has completely run it's natural course. There is nothing the (local/state/federal) govt can do to stop it. We can perhaps try to slow it down, but even that has limits of reasonableness.

The big corps and the rich don't give a darn about being shutdown because they can weather this storm just fine. But I know some folks (who are NOT in the vulnerable group) who live paycheck to paycheck and who have not seen a full paycheck in over a month now. They are getting ABSOLUTELY desperate and they don't have 401k's to worry about -- they are worried about being a month behind on bills (mortgage/rent, car, electric, water, phone, credit-cards, etc -- all add up to way more than $1200 and the creditors all still want their money) and they somehow still need to be able to afford groceries. Those arguing for a continued shutdown do not seem to appreciate just how desperate those folks are getting, especially in the suburban and rural areas. It's becoming a powder keg and something has to give.

Here in GA, we are starting to reopen. The misconception is that the Governor just opened the floodgates and he did no such thing. The restrictions allow particular types of businesses to reopen, but with a laundry list of protective measures they are required to follow. The vast majority of those businesses can't reopen because they can't meet the precautionary requirements. Also, the governor did not order anyone to open, nor did he order folks to leave their homes and venture out. Those are decisions left to the individual.

So, it is not an "either/or" situation. We can reasonably protect the most vulnerable *and* reasonably reopen the economy. Both the healthy and vulnerable folks know the risks and the protective measures they can take to help mitigate those risks. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

We are about to find out, here in GA. There are two ways it can go: The phased reopening might lead to a significant increase in rates of hospitalization and mortality -OR- the reopening may result in little to no difference at all. If it does NOT result in a any significant increase, folks (correctly or not) may begin to wonder if the economy was shut down unnecessarily. But it may go the other way. Time will tell.

+1

babydinosnoreless · Post by **babydinosnoreless** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:06 am

colomom wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:32 pm

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:47 am
makes me sad that this country has lost the ability to have these tough conversations civilly. I almost wish social media had never been invented. It sure seems like it amplifies the polarization.
I agree wholeheartedly with this part of your post!

I hate to point out to you that perhaps you have fallen victim to the very thing you are decrying.
You seem to be a nice person, yet you parroted a ridiculous (thankfully limited) GOP talking point that essentially claims economic gains are more important than human life.

This virus is a nightmare, don’t allow your self to be complacent. AZ has a high amount of elderly residents, when it hits you it will hit hard. Available medical resources vary greatly in AZ, there may be beds available in Phoenix, but in the Navajo Nation which is one of the highest per capita places in the nation with COVID19, resources are scarce.

You seem to be promoting one of the ridiculous talking points about the Navajos. Their resources are not any more scarce than the many tribes down in the valley who are doing just fine. The difference is it is COLD on the Navajo nation while it is hot in the valley. 105 this week. We have 21 recognized tribes (Papagos, Pimas, Hopi, Apache to name a few) and yet only 1 is struggling with the virus while ALL tribes are economically disadvantaged.

I know you think I parroted a republican talking point, but that is just not the case. The needs of the many come before the needs of a few is a very well know reference from Star Trek a very progressive show long before its time. This is not republican or democrat. It is about core beliefs. My core beliefs are clearly at odds with the new generations "me me me" attitude. That is not political. Maybe generational?

As for pro choice vrs pro life you have again fallen victim to the false talking points about republicans. I am pro choice, atheist and I have a college degree as do most of my friends and relatives. I have bragged on here more than once that my daughter has a masters of mechanical engineering as does her SO and btw he is hispanic. So if you happen to think all republicans are white middle age christian males who carry guns and have no education, then you have been very much deceived by the media.

Edited: Rereading my post I should make clear my daughter has the masters her SO has an engineering degree but it is not a Masters.

DreamDiver · Post by **DreamDiver** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:01 am

JayDee wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:19 am
We are about to find out, here in GA. There are two ways it can go: The phased reopening might lead to a significant increase in rates of hospitalization and mortality -OR- the reopening may result in little to no difference at all. If it does NOT result in a any significant increase, folks (correctly or not) may begin to wonder if the economy was shut down unnecessarily. But it may go the other way. Time will tell.

I live in Georgia too. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm frankly skeptical about opening before the peak has passed the two week point.

Athens, GA has two hospitals that serve multiple counties because a number of other smaller hospitals had to close due to inability to pay their healthcare staff. Unfortunately, this has been happening all over the rural counties of every state, and some inner city hospitals too.

Top that off with the fact that most hospitals are already understaffed and underpaid, and a pandemic becomes the cherry on top that shows just how susceptible our nation, states, towns are. I think Georgia is headed for a new surge in Covid-19 hospitalizations.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:24 am

found a way to read the washington post article. i wanted to see if it was similar in topic to what i heard on a tech podcast 2-3 weeks ago. that is, the use of google or apple app to do contact tracing and then advise the user if they have been near a person who was infected at the time you were near them.

from the article-

"...a collection of governors, former government officials, disease specialists and nonprofits are pursuing a strategy that relies on the three pillars of disease control: Ramp up testing to identify people who are infected. Find everyone they interact with by deploying contact tracing on a scale America has never attempted before. And focus restrictions more narrowly on the infected and their contacts so the rest of society doesn’t have to stay in permanent lockdown."

in and of itself, i don't have a problem with contact tracing. i recognize the need to collect data. in a fight against this particular disease, the medical community needs every bit of information that they can get to work towards treatment and eventual vaccination.

again from the article-
"“All people are talking about right now is hospital beds, ventilators, testing, testing, testing. Yes, those are important, but they are all reactive. You are dealing with the symptoms and not the virus itself,” said Tolbert Nyenswah, who led one of the most successful contact tracing efforts in Africa during the 2014 to 2016 Ebola epidemic. “You will never beat a virus like this one unless you get ahead of it. America must not just flatten the curve but get ahead of the curve.”"

and here is where my ignorance rears it's ugly head. or perhaps i'm being selfish. attend me-i and my blushing bride and fido go down to the local dog park. we are so fascinated by a dog and his owner that we completely forget about physical distancing and get in close and tight with the owners while cooing over their lovely dog.

two weeks later, my app says "omg!! zonker, you got the 'rona."

then what? tolbert up there says i'm being "reactive". i say i'm panicking out of my head BECAUSE THERE IS NO TESTING EASILY AVAILABLE.

i understand greater good. but can someone explain to me the practical benefit i derive from knowing i have possibly become infected if there is no action to take past just knowing?

DreamDiver · Post by **DreamDiver** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:31 am

zonker wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:24 am
,,,
again from the article-
"“All people are talking about right now is hospital beds, ventilators, testing, testing, testing. Yes, those are important, but they are all reactive. You are dealing with the symptoms and not the virus itself,” said Tolbert Nyenswah, who led one of the most successful contact tracing efforts in Africa during the 2014 to 2016 Ebola epidemic. “You will never beat a virus like this one unless you get ahead of it. America must not just flatten the curve but get ahead of the curve.”"

and here is where my ignorance rears it's ugly head. or perhaps i'm being selfish. attend me-i and my blushing bride and fido go down to the local dog park. we are so fascinated by a dog and his owner that we completely forget about physical distancing and get in close and tight with the owners while cooing over their lovely dog.

two weeks later, my app says "omg!! zonker, you got the 'rona."

then what? tolbert up there says i'm being "reactive". i say i'm panicking out of my head BECAUSE THERE IS NO TESTING EASILY AVAILABLE.

i understand greater good. but can someone explain to me the practical benefit i derive from knowing i have possibly become infected if there is no action to take past just knowing?

First you immediately get tested for IgA (contagious now) and IgM (no longer contagious) antibodies. If you are contagious, for the next three weeks, or until you get a new test that says your positive for the IgM and not the IgA antibody, you should be entirely quarantined -- not even going out. Stuff should be delivered to you. And then your social contact data are related to others who may have also had close contact with you immediately, and they are also quarantined if they show positive for contagion on the immunoassay. You become part of the process for stopping the virus from spreading. Simple as that.

COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

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