COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

[jnk...]

It now appears that the virus is spread by people who aren't actively sick. So I was referring to the possibility that you could pick up the virus from someone who isn't sick, and without even being sick yourself, still spread it to someone who would get very sick. Apparently not a HUGE risk, according to present research, but when the ultimate consequence may be death or permanent damage, small risks are ignored to everyone's peril.

I'm not here to judge anyone or label anyone, myself. I have seen evidence you are a caring, loving person. I am only here to give honest gut reactions and spread knowledge as accurately as I can, hopefully without hurting too many feelings along the way.

I hope the job search goes well, my friend.

[Pugsy]

How am I risking anyones life NO ONE here is sick! I know zero people who have been sick, my friends , relatives, their friends and relatives know zero people who are sick,

Not directing my comments at babydino or anyone else who feels this way but I do want to express a concern that I have.

Asymptomatic COVID carriers. They aren't sick...they don't know they carry the virus but they can sure share it.

So the people who go out into the world who aren't sick...maybe they come in contact with someone who is an asymptomatic carrier and guess what happens? They get sick from exposure and then they risk everyone who they do come in contact with.
AND it's now thought that those newly infected people are actually more contagious during the few days prior to when they start showing symptoms of being sick.
Double edged sword. Not to mention the idiots who go out when they are sick and just don't give a damn about the next person.

No...you weren't sick to start with so you won't be infecting anyone right at that moment but there's no guarantee that you won't get sick or no guarantee that you won't become one of those asymptomatic carriers from someone else who thinks exactly like you do.

People do need to go out for any number of reasons. I just had to take my mom to the doctor yesterday for something that is critical to her health right now. No way around it. She's wheelchair boung... She reached to push the button to open the door to the doctor's off and I stopped her....she wasn't thinking. I pushed it open with my elbow instead.

What I do and what I recommend...I treat myself like I have the virus and I treat everyone else like they have virus.
I treat myself that way just in case I might be an asymptomatic carrier and I sure don't want to spread it to anyone much less my own mother. I treat others that way because I want to minimize the risk that I might catch it and become one of those carriers who either spreads it without knowing it or maybe just spreads it before I might show symptoms. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we have at the moment.

The asymptomatic carriers are the ones that scare the hell out of me and trust me....there's a lot of them out there and we have zero way to know who they are.

I would say use some common sense folks but I already have come to the conclusion that common sense is in short supply in every aspect of a lot of people's lives.

[jnk...]

What I do and what I recommend...I treat myself like I have the virus and I treat everyone else like they have virus.

+1

People do need to go out for any number of reasons.

+1

In the grand scheme, everything in life has risks. Two healthy people may collide and die on the highway. But informed precautions are the loving thing, to the full extent possible. Arizona has the opportunity to do it better than we did here in NY. May that opportunity not pass them by.

[palerider]

stay home then. I don't tell you how to live your life why do you want to dictate how I live mine ? There is no law that I know of anywhere in America that says I must carry a cell phone when I leave my house. My life, my choice.

Your freedom to do what you want stops when you risk other peoples lives.

You're *SO CONCERNED* about your "freedoms" that you *do not care* about others.

Glad I'm nowhere close, seriously.

How am I risking anyones life NO ONE here is sick!

You have no way to know that.

Many people are asymptomatic. Ever heard of "typhoid Mary", someone famous for infecting many people with typhoid, yet having no symptoms, *never* getting sick herself.

The number of people infected is much higher than is known due to the disgustingly poor response to *testing* in this country.

Some recent reputable studies indicate as much as 50 times as many people have been infected as previously thought, people that never thought they were "sick". But, go ahead and gamble with your life, and with your families lives. Do your part to thin the herd. Just don't come here looking for sympathy when someone you care about is dying, or has a stroke from the blood clots that doctors are finding out about.

Personally I'd rather be dead than be a burden on my family or on society. If I get sick I will gladly give my ventilator to someone younger and in better shape. I'd rather face death. Just so you know PR I have a DNR on file so I won't be taking anyones resources.

Well, I thought the Texas lt gov was a Gastly ghoul for suggesting that old people should die to help the economy along... I guess he was right... Who knew just how low the Republicans really are. I hope you get your wish.

Jnk I'm sorry you had friends die. That is awful. Sending you virtual hugs and positive thoughts. While I don't agree with your views I can absolutely empathize with it and see why you might think differently. I hope you stay safe.

"Virtual hugs and positive thoughts" mean nothing at all, *nothing*. Less than nothing, just meaningless mouth sounds from someone who is eager to help spread the disease.

But, since you're not going to change, I'm done with this,and you.

You're disgusting. Bless your heart, have a nice day.

[palerider]

What I do and what I recommend...I treat myself like I have the virus and I treat everyone else like they have virus.

+1

People do need to go out for any number of reasons.

+1

In the grand scheme, everything in life has risks. Two healthy people may collide and die on the highway. But informed precautions are the loving thing, to the full extent possible. Arizona has the opportunity to do it better than we did here in NY. May that opportunity not pass them by.

So much yes.

[babydinosnoreless]

stay home then. I don't tell you how to live your life why do you want to dictate how I live mine ? There is no law that I know of anywhere in America that says I must carry a cell phone when I leave my house. My life, my choice.

Your freedom to do what you want stops when you risk other peoples lives.

You're *SO CONCERNED* about your "freedoms" that you *do not care* about others.

Glad I'm nowhere close, seriously.

How am I risking anyones life NO ONE here is sick!

You have no way to know that.

Many people are asymptomatic. Ever heard of "typhoid Mary", someone famous for infecting many people with typhoid, yet having no symptoms, *never* getting sick herself.

The number of people infected is much higher than is known due to the disgustingly poor response to *testing* in this country.

Some recent reputable studies indicate as much as 50 times as many people have been infected as previously thought, people that never thought they were "sick". But, go ahead and gamble with your life, and with your families lives. Do your part to thin the herd. Just don't come here looking for sympathy when someone you care about is dying, or has a stroke from the blood clots that doctors are finding out about.

Personally I'd rather be dead than be a burden on my family or on society. If I get sick I will gladly give my ventilator to someone younger and in better shape. I'd rather face death. Just so you know PR I have a DNR on file so I won't be taking anyones resources.

Well, I thought the Texas lt gov was a Gastly ghoul for suggesting that old people should die to help the economy along... I guess he was right... Who knew just how low the Republicans really are. I hope you get your wish.

Jnk I'm sorry you had friends die. That is awful. Sending you virtual hugs and positive thoughts. While I don't agree with your views I can absolutely empathize with it and see why you might think differently. I hope you stay safe.

"Virtual hugs and positive thoughts" mean nothing at all, *nothing*. Less than nothing, just meaningless mouth sounds from someone who is eager to help spread the disease.

But, since you're not going to change, I'm done with this,and you.

You're disgusting. Bless your heart, have a nice day.

Sorry you feel that way, PR. Stay safe. And I don't mean anything except exactly that. No hidden meanings.

[babydinosnoreless]

I'm not here to judge anyone or label anyone, myself. I have seen evidence you are a caring, loving person. I am only here to give honest gut reactions and spread knowledge as accurately as I can, hopefully without hurting too many feelings along the way.

I hope the job search goes well, my friend.

Thank you, JNK. Please stay safe.

[babydinosnoreless]

How am I risking anyones life NO ONE here is sick! I know zero people who have been sick, my friends , relatives, their friends and relatives know zero people who are sick,

Not directing my comments at babydino or anyone else who feels this way but I do want to express a concern that I have.

Asymptomatic COVID carriers. They aren't sick...they don't know they carry the virus but they can sure share it.

“Young, healthy people tend to be the community transmitters and they affect the most vulnerable. "

I see this statement or something similar in almost every article I've read. I can assure you all I am not young nor healthy. I fit the profile of the person who will die from it. I have asthma, autoimmune disorders, high blood pressure etc. Nor am I out partying.

I would think that those of us willing to sacrifice for the greater good would not be so vilified for expressing our desire to place the health and the well being of our country first. I'm not suggesting anyone else make the same choice. I firmly believe if you want to stay home safe you should. I believe with every fiber of my being that everyone should have the freedom to make that choice for themselves.

It makes me sad that this country has lost the ability to have these tough conversations civilly. I almost wish social media had never been invented. It sure seems like it amplifies the polarization.

Stay safe Pugsy. Cpap talk needs your calm voice.

[Pugsy]

“Young, healthy people tend to be the community transmitters and they affect the most vulnerable. "

I see this statement or something similar in almost every article I've read. I can assure you all I am not young nor healthy. I fit the profile of the person who will die from it. I have asthma, autoimmune disorders, high blood pressure etc. Nor am I out partying.

I am neither young myself at age 67 but I can't guarantee anyone that I am not an asymptomatic carrier.
This virus infects young and old and kills young and old. It doesn't care what your age is or even if you are healthy or not.
Too many dead young healthy people prove that fact. Yes, the people with underlying health problems get hit hard but it's not like the young and healthy are home free.

[palerider]

Say safe.

"Staying safe" is made much more difficult by people like yourself, who want to get out and about, damn the cost.

I would think that those of us willing to sacrifice for the greater good would not be so vilified for expressing our desire to place the health and the well being of our country first. I'm not suggesting anyone else make the same choice. I firmly believe if you want to stay home safe you should. I believe with every fiber of my being that everyone should have the freedom to make that choice for themselves.

It makes me sad that this country has lost the ability to have these tough conversations civilly.

Do you not comprehend how absurd your statement is?

"Willing to sacrifice for the greater good", by going out and potentially spreading a fatal, or damaging disease and avoiding the ability to see, through tracking, who you infected, because *freedom*?

The "well being of our country" comes from the *people* living through this, by not getting sick, having strokes, lung damage, or dying. History tells us this, if only the ignorant would read and understand it. Read the economic studies of the aftermath of the 1918 pandemic, locales that restricted your precious "freedoms" sooner, and longer, rebounded *faster and better* than those that lost more *people* by letting them have their "freedoms", thus leading to more deaths.

I'm sorry you are incapable of comprehending these facts. Stop getting your "news" from politically motivated propaganda outlets.

I pity you.

[DreamDiver]

There seem to be differences in what "lock-down" means for different towns, states, etc.

For me, lock-down has meant

1. Stay home, but you can go out if you need toilet paper and milk. Wear a mask.
2. You can walk around your neighborhood. Just cross to the other side of the street when you're passing someone. It's a suburb, so nobody is really driving. People are walking their dogs, but absolutely social distancing.
3. In some instances, close neighbors are behaving like family, doing things together, but they do not socialize with anyone else.
4. There is no law saying you can't be out getting ice-cream, but it's probably wiser if you're out getting medications or food shopping, getting mail or donating goods to the appropriate venue. Exercise includes being allowed to go to the local public garden. It involves a five-mile drive from most anywhere in town, so it's not like you could just walk there. It's never really full of people because it is distant, but there's always just loose enough people density that you can easily social distance. They closed the kids garden because its essential a playground, and yeah, that would be bad.

Stores that are open include: food stores, hardware stores, garden centers, restaurants

All stores are generally enforcing social distancing. Some stores are better at this than others. Only so many people in the store at one time. One in, one out. Everyone is wearing face masks. Restaurants are take-out only. Order our cats' kibble over the phone and pick it up at the vet, but we never get out of the car. The vet has entirely isolated their space.

Being mostly a homebody, this has not really affected me or my wife much so far. We already had toilet paper. We're only now seeing shortages like dishwashing detergent and frozen veg. Now, more and more store shelves are empty, but most of that stuff was stuff I couldn't eat, so we haven't really been affected there either. We still get plenty of fresh veggies and fruits.

I can imagine that if you live in an apartment, especially a densely packed apartment complex in the middle of a densely populated city, the lock-down would be a lot different.

We're also mostly work-at-home. Most other people not. That's a challenge.

America is the third-most populous country in the world after China and India. Managing the needs of that many people has pros and cons. We often wrap ourselves in the bill of rights, wear the flag as a cape and shout "MURKA, YEAH!", endorsing and embracing the bill of rights that bestows freedoms on citizens born here and citizens made. Yet we rarely talk about the responsibilities that those freedoms are tied to. Maybe part of living in the land of the free is being brave enough to recognize that occasionally we have to work together as one country toward a common goal, even giving up some of those freedoms at least temporarily while we're working on that goal.

In WWII there was rationing of just about everything. We got ration cards. Victory gardens were planted. The best of our supplies went to the soldiers on the front line. We suffered the inconvenience in silence knowing that it was for a good cause. It seems we're in a similar situation today.

1. The disease is causing some people to stop being able to breathe on their own.
2. This is new: It's causing blot clots that are partly responsible everything from pulmonary embolisms to full-on strokes in a wide age range. People ages 30-40 are being most heavily hit - prime of life. We haven't been watching this, so we don't have a good count. This is on top of the elderly, young and immunocompromised.
3. There's no vaccination. We have no wide-spread reliable immunoassay 15-minute tests for IgA (contagious) or IgM (past contagion). We're not contact tracing. We have no federally aligned path forward. We are essentially leaderless on this front.
4. Fullly opening stores when you can't possibly know who is infected seems foolhardy at best, and likely to kill far more than have already died at worst.
5. We two choices: damn the torpedos like Sweden and Japan, or wait it out.
6. We don't have the third choice of limited opening because we don't have anything from "3" above. If we had these options, we could have a firmer grasp on exactly who is sick before they even show as sick, isolate them and treat them separately from the rest of us and re-introduce them after they're no longer contagious, 2 to 6 weeks later.

The only way to contact trace the third most populous country in the world is to use a massive database, probably via apple and google. Nobody else has the capacity. Nobody else is more aware of the privacy issues that are involved because they already deal with that only daily basis for doctors, lawyers... lots of professionals.

In the absence of actual leadership, someone must take up the mantle and say something. The president is the only person who can be reasonably tasked with this job, but he has fumbled this play. So it sounds less credible when it comes from the mouths of a few governors and business people. In an age when social media makes everything seem like a conspiracy theory, if it's not coming from the lips of your preferred leader, well then, it must not be true. Science has left the building. Yet the message is still just waiting to be delivered. It's a message that should have been delivered in December of last year:

It's time to give up some of your freedom today so that we can survive and thrive after this is over. Make the tests, do the contact tracing, isolate and care for the sick. Stay home. Do this for your country. It takes all of us working together.

The message was never delivered in time. Unfortunately... it never will be.

THAT is the crux of where we are.

[palerider]

Well said,well thought out, very rational,and unfortunately going in one ear and out though the empty heads of far too many people who can't see past the ends of their noses.

[DreamDiver]

Well said,well thought out, very rational,and unfortunately going in one ear and out though the empty heads of far too many people who can't see past the ends of their noses.

Surely there is a threshold over which at some point every living person will be able to clearly see that the emperor has no clothes. Yet this continues to be my wish.

[jnk...]

Somewhere between "oh my!" and "yikes!":

"There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection," [WHO] said.--https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2270FB

I ain't no expert, but that makes me wonder about the nearness of any easy, workable, universal approach for a vaccine in the next few years.

Not sure my hunker can go that far down.

[DreamDiver]

Somewhere between "oh my!" and "yikes!":

"There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection," [WHO] said.--https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN2270FB

I ain't no expert, but that makes me wonder about the nearness of any easy, workable, universal approach for a vaccine in the next few years.

Not sure my hunker can go that far down.

Huh... It's almost like Mother Nature is telling us to "Calm TF Down"...
Basically, it would mean travel would almost cease for most people. There would only be minimal travel, sort of like before we had airplanes, trains, autos. If anyone could die randomly in the next wave of infection, the only way to stop it is to quarantine like city-states. Foods, goods and services would have to be produced locally. Large cities would be abandoned because they depend on goods and services being delivered from far away. Wow, this sounds eerily like one of Octavia Butler's "Parable of the Sower" novels... Go figure.