Proving "Resmed Airsense 10 CPAP" (base model) is a brick

I have finally had a chance to be the guinea pig and download the "data" from my machine. Please see the screen shots below from both SleepyHead and ResScan. I am new here and I apologize if this is not the proper way to post screenshots. If wrong, someone please point me in the right direction. Moreover, if someone wants a screenshot of another page or more information. Just ask!

Pugsy, I have no clue how to read all these results (yet) but it looks to me like it does record Leak data (not in SH, but it looks like it does in RS). I had 0 leaks during my first night, at least thats how the machine reported it. I was very conscious of my setup and tube last night. I tolerate CPAP very well due to many years in healthcare and volunteering to be the test patient for any machine testing or setup.

Screenshots from ResScan:

http://imgur.com/DGZOfkV
http://imgur.com/e7qHBj9
http://imgur.com/I47XOZM
http://imgur.com/OgRTdL9

Screenshots from SH:

http://imgur.com/Z1RnsDd
http://imgur.com/FZoEhII
http://imgur.com/Jh8M0pO


I hope this helps someone avoid the mistake I made in accepting this machine. I was told by the DME that this machine "has the same efficacy data recording as the Autoset." Boy were they wrong..........

I would say they LIED.

chunkyfrog wrote:I would say they LIED.

Ain't that the truth! I can't believe it. And yes they even tried to pull the "your insurance doesn't cover the Autoset" card as I was fighting to get the machine I have wanted since the beginning!

Hmmm... the AHI is as I suspected. The generic total with no breakdown into categories...works if the AHI is nice and low...doesn't work so great if it is high.

Now the leak number...it is a 95% number but it's really unusual to have a 0.0 95% number. Highly unusual...almost everyone has some little sort of leak that will cause the 95% number to increase at least a little. It's easily raised....now the median average leak...those take a lot of leak to get off 0.0.

Can you do me another favor? Create a big leak for about 30 seconds...just pull the mask away from your face and let it blow hard...then check the report again later (after you sleep some is fine) to see if the 95% number moved off 0.0.
If it didn't...then that 0.0 isn't a real worthwhile data point. Probably like FL flags on Respironics machines in cpap mode...worthless because it is always 0.0 because it doesn't flag them in cpap mode. Stupid engineers. Wonder if they are now designing for ResMed bricks.

Yep, I shall disable auto off and will make a leak big enough to clean off the nightstand. I will report back tomorrow!

I was actually surprised to see that 0.0 as well. I would assume that even the inherent design of the mask allows some leaking to occur just to keep some air flowing. But I could be wrong. Pretty excited to see what the results of this test say

lowsats wrote:I would assume that even the inherent design of the mask allows some leaking to occur just to keep some air flowing. But I could be wrong.

You aren't wrong...all masks used with these machines have what we call an intentional vent rate...or intentional leak rate. That's to blow off carbon dioxide that we exhale so we don't keep breathing our own exhaled breaths...and kill ourselves at worst or wake up with massive headache at the least.
Each brand reports leaks a little differently...some include that vent rate and some remove all or part of it prior to reporting leaks.

Vent rates increase (there's a little graph in your mask paperwork showing how it goes up) as pressures go up. Your ResMed machines..they subtract a generic vent rate prior to reporting the leak...it's generic because while they know the pressure used they don't know the exact brand and each model individually...that's where the mask selection feature on ResMed machines comes in...it helps the machine know what generic vent rate to subtract before reporting only excess leak. There may be some additional things that the mask selection does but I think that the main thing for us to understand and use is the leak calculations. It's a generic number...and they may use the starting point of the night when we assume there are no leaks as part of the calculations. They never really tell us exactly what all is involved in the that mask selection choice except if you don't have the right mask chosen the leak data may not be all that accurate but I have used the wrong mask selection before and it really didn't make a huge difference in the reported leak numbers...so I am not so sure that is horribly critical.

In general full face masks will vent more than a nasal cushion mask with the nasal pillow masks typically venting the least of all the mask types if pressures are the same. There's not a huge amount of difference in vent rate between the various brands in each mask category.....but there are some minor differences.

Since you have a ResMed machine....the leak you see reported is excess leak...the vent rate is removed from the calculations. If you see a Respironic report...their leak numbers are much higher because those machines report total leak as primary leak number and they include the vent rate.
So if you see a Respironics report where the person is showing a leak of 50 L/min...that's probably a "good" leak number for them....but would be horrible for you.

ResMed uses 24 L/min as the line in the sand where large leaks start impacting things (sensing, recording, responding) but I think that is probably a bit uber conservative as it's not like things go totally to hell if you hit 25 L/min...it's a gradual worsening...the further you go over 24 L/min the iffier things get. Once you go over 35 L/min leak line...the machine is serious compromised but up to that point it still will do a fairly decent job.

I don't worry about short lived large leak spikes...or the 95% leak number because it is so easily skewed...I look at how far I went into large leak territory and how long I stayed deep in LL territory.
Don't rely soley on the 95% numbers unless they are nice and low....here's a night where the 95% number made it sound like the total night was trashed but it really was only for part of the night.
See this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=108724&p=1036669&hi ... t#p1036669

Excellent write up x2, now the 95% thing makes much more sense to me and I also see why having the graphs to use as we evaluate our treatment is truly paramount. I cant wait for my Autoset to come in. I'm so excited to finally have some real data, I'm a total data nerd and Mr Smiley and Mr Frowny (as well as the lack of data reported by my CBRICK) just do NOT cut it for me!

Thanks again Pugsy

lowsats wrote:I hope this helps someone avoid the mistake I made in accepting this machine. I was told by the DME that this machine "has the same efficacy data recording as the Autoset." Boy were they wrong..........

well, er, we did know that, and have for a couple years, and have been telling people to avoid the CPAP model... but, er... thanks?

When I was first diagnosed, I had no idea the conspiracy was REAL.
Others have been in your shoes. I dodged the bullet by finding the forum before getting my machine. But.
I was only able to get an Elite, and suffered through nine months of 3 cm too much pressure before I was able to buy my first S9 Autoset. From cpap.com, of course. The crooked DME lost my business, and that of anyone I could warn.

palerider wrote: well, er, we did know that, and have for a couple years, and have been telling people to avoid the CPAP model... but, er... thanks?

I'm well aware that its a well known fact the CPAP model is a brick. I'm just trying to provide the data via screenshots of ResScan and SH that further reinforce that fact. As far as I know by searching this has not been done here with RS and SH, there are only posts by yourself and others stating that this machine is a brick. My mistake was made by only researching the machine that I wanted (Autoset) and not the other models, thus when I was dropped this machine, I made a second mistake of trusting that they would know its data recording capabilities. I only found out in retrospect, thanks to this forum, that this machine was inadequate.

I apologize if you found the information less than useful.

In other news, Pugsy, I created a massive leak when I was getting ready to fall asleep for about 45 seconds. Interestingly, my fiance also reported that last night she woke up to the sound of air leaking via my open mouth. She noted it happened two or three times. When I checked the sleep report this morning, it still shows 0 leak. Ill hook up the card and get the data for more screen shots (sorry palerider ) after work this evening.

FWIW...I ask lowsats to do this experiment for me. I had not seen exactly what data this model showed.
I assumed it would be like the other half assed brick, the S9 Escape Auto, and give the generic whole number AHI without then category breakdown. I kinda think the breakdown is important especially if the AHI is high.

The leak...that's new...and I really wanted to see what it offered.

I wanted to see what SH showed and what ResScan showed...so I could say with certainty "this is what this half assed brick shows....or doesn't show".

Now I want to see if that 95% leak number is even accurate...or if it is a big lie...and if it is, I feel that is worse lie because it could potentially mislead someone into thinking "hey....I never leak" when in fact they could be leaking like crazy and not know it with a 95% leak number stuck on 0.0 forever. A generic AHI is still an AHI which I suppose is better than nothing but barely...but a useless leak number stuck on 0.0 is potentially dangerous in terms of therapy effectiveness and that bothers me a lot.

So I asked for this experiment...it was for my own education so that I could back up what I said when I called this model a half assed brick. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Last night, before I fell asleep, I pulled my mask away from my face and let a huge leak happen for more than 30 seconds, I then opened my mouth and let a mouth leak happen for another 30 seconds. In addition, my fiance reported that I woke her up on several occasions with leaking air from my open mouth. This will be evaluated more in depth once I get my Autoset and a mask change or chin strap may be in order.

Pugsy and I were interested in finding out just what the CPAP model shows (or doesnt show), as after the first night I was surprised to see that my leak numbers were 0.0.

See the attached screenshot to see that this machine does NOT record leak data as some have suggested, at least not with any sort of useful resolution. At least not that I can see. Please advise if this assessment is incorrect.

http://imgur.com/TtbyIox

Well...looks like it is stuck on 0.0 for a 95% number.
Sort of like the Respironics cpap models showing 0.0 for Flow limitations..and they don't even flag FLs at all. While they say they are reporting leaks...that's not a leak report.

You might try one more experiment...try same big leak but for a little longer and this time pull the SD card and go check the data prior to going to bed so that the leak data time is all alone on the sleep session and not being pulled down by the time spent with no leak.
I will be surprised if it moves off 0.0 in the face of massive leak and the leak data session/experiment is all alone and not followed by sleep time.

Just a little more extra work...one more time and I will be satisfied.

Ill just do it right now! Standby just a few.