Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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NateS
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Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:33 pm

I can't believe the leaks I'm getting with my new AirFit F10 Mask!

I am trying out an AirFit F10 Mask and I love the way it fits and I badly want to keep it, as it is the most comfortable mask I have ever used! And it doesn't seem to be disrupted by my trimmed beard and mustache when I first put it on - it snugs right up to my face and seems to work like a charm! And I breathe very comfortably through it. (Pay no attention to my avatar - that's just my warped sense of humor and my beard and mustache are really closely trimmed and do not resemble that avatar.)

It is totally silent for the first hour or two, and then the leak alarm starts going off like crazy, and the only thing that stops it temporarily is tightening the lower straps of the mask. That works for awhile and then it starts up again, and I have to tighten it even further until about 3-4 hours later when I have to take it off and go back to my old mask because the leaks won't stop and the leak alarm won't shut up!

I have tried liners but they seem to make it worse by preventing the inflatable lip from gripping my face, perhaps because of the indentations in the lip at the top and bottom.

I am a back sleeper and rarely change positions, so I don't think I am knocking the mask aside when I sleep.

Any suggestions or advice would be very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

Best wishes, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

library lady
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by library lady » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:01 pm

I use AirFit F10 with a liner and rarely experience leaks except when the cushion is wearing out. Your problem could be related to mask fit, which corresponds not just to mask size but to the strap adjustment. Too tight or too loose, there will be more leak difficulty. It needs to be just right, which is easier said than done. Have you tried the mask fit feature on your machine? You might try a different sized cushion instead of going to a different mask. Every mask shares this mask fit problem, and everybody responds differently to the fit that is needed.

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Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ F10 Full Face Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments:  Sleepyhead
Now using AirFit F10 mask; Quattro Air is backup mask. RemZzzz mask liners with both.

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Sheriff Buford
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by Sheriff Buford » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:21 pm

Since I've retired, I've grown a goatee. I uses to get zero leaks (it's true... ask Pugsy.... if she'll come back! ) until the goatee. Everywhere I have hair (on my face), I now get leaks. As you mentioned, I can't get the silicone to seal on my face like I could prior to the goatee. The mask will slide around where the hair is. To be honest, I get leaks like crazy... sometimes up in the 80's or 90"s l/h. As long as my AHI is low, I'm ignoring the leaks until pugs pulls out her baseball bat dedicated to the side of my head.

Sheriff

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NateS
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:32 pm

library lady wrote:I use AirFit F10 with a liner and rarely experience leaks except when the cushion is wearing out. Your problem could be related to mask fit, which corresponds not just to mask size but to the strap adjustment. Too tight or too loose, there will be more leak difficulty. It needs to be just right, which is easier said than done. Have you tried the mask fit feature on your machine? You might try a different sized cushion instead of going to a different mask. Every mask shares this mask fit problem, and everybody responds differently to the fit that is needed.
Thank you very much, library lady, for taking the time to reply, and for your kind suggestions.

May I ask what specific liner you are successfully using with your AirFit F10?

Thanks, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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palerider
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by palerider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:45 pm

Sheriff Buford wrote:Since I've retired, I've grown a goatee. I uses to get zero leaks (it's true... ask Pugsy.... if she'll come back! ) until the goatee. Everywhere I have hair (on my face), I now get leaks. As you mentioned, I can't get the silicone to seal on my face like I could prior to the goatee. The mask will slide around where the hair is. To be honest, I get leaks like crazy... sometimes up in the 80's or 90"s l/h. As long as my AHI is low, I'm ignoring the leaks until pugs pulls out her baseball bat dedicated to the side of my head.

Sheriff
you do realize that for the time you're getting leaks in the 80s and 90s, the machine can't really TELL if you're having an event?

when it gets much over 30lpm it starts having trouble telling the kind of event...

now, if they're short term leaks, it's no big deal. what's sleepyhead say is your time over leak threshold (which is 24lpm)?

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palerider
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by palerider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:48 pm

NateS wrote:May I ask what specific liner you are successfully using with your AirFit F10?
fwiw, I used the remzzz liners on my mirage quattro, they didn't stop leaks, but they did keep them from being noisy, and helped keep the mask in place (without them, the mask would get sweaty/oily or whatever, and start sliding around, and making annoying sleep disrupting noises)

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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

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NateS
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:58 pm

Sheriff Buford wrote:Since I've retired, I've grown a goatee. I uses to get zero leaks (it's true... ask Pugsy.... if she'll come back! ) until the goatee. Everywhere I have hair (on my face), I now get leaks. As you mentioned, I can't get the silicone to seal on my face like I could prior to the goatee. The mask will slide around where the hair is. To be honest, I get leaks like crazy... sometimes up in the 80's or 90"s l/h. As long as my AHI is low, I'm ignoring the leaks until pugs pulls out her baseball bat dedicated to the side of my head.

Sheriff
Thanks for your reply, Sheriff.

I was under the impression that I could not rely on the accuracy of the low AHI reading if I am getting big leaks like that!

Regards, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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palerider
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by palerider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:10 pm

NateS wrote:I was under the impression that I could not rely on the accuracy of the low AHI reading if I am getting big leaks like that!
that is correct.

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Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

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NateS
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:26 pm

Sheriff Buford wrote:Since I've retired, I've grown a goatee. I uses to get zero leaks (it's true... ask Pugsy.... if she'll come back! ) until the goatee. Everywhere I have hair (on my face), I now get leaks. As you mentioned, I can't get the silicone to seal on my face like I could prior to the goatee. The mask will slide around where the hair is. To be honest, I get leaks like crazy... sometimes up in the 80's or 90"s l/h. As long as my AHI is low, I'm ignoring the leaks until pugs pulls out her baseball bat dedicated to the side of my head.

Sheriff
Sheriff, in September I see you were also using the F10. Are you still using that mask? If so, any tips?

Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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Macpage
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by Macpage » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:19 pm

NateS wrote:I can't believe the leaks I'm getting with my new AirFit F10 Mask!
Nate,

You're trying the F10 which I've used for about 5 months, and I'm trying the Wisp after reading a lot of your posts on it. Small world!

I never had a huge issue with leaks on the F10 albeit on moderate pressures. Most of my leaks come from active sleeping on my side and stomach. However, I do find that I tighten the top straps pretty snug without any nose bridge issues. This helped with the upper leaks. Sometimes would get bottom leaks around the mouth due to jaw drop, which tape fixed. Before the tape, I would sometimes find my lower lip fighting with the bottom seal.

I do have to note that I could only get by on 4 or 5 days stubble. After that, my leak rate would increase. Also, if I got my mouth tape close to the contoured sections of the cushion, I couldn't get a seal at all.

The F10 sure is comfortable, quiet, and user friendly. It seems a lot of posters get it working in a lot of different situations. It might just be the classic mask fit issue, which would be a shame because there aren't alot of ffm's like this. Have you tried the Quattro Air or the F&P Simplus. I'm trying the F&P Eson with the Wisp and it shares a lot with the Simplus. I think everything about the Eson is so suited to a ffm. I really want to get my hands on the Simplus outside of the DME.

PS-the Wisp is a hoot! Whether it works or not, everyone should get to try it. It's one of those that just demonstrates what can be accomplished with a little thought. If only they had thought out more sizes...like a slight extra depth set of cushions. Thanks for all the great posts on it. Really helped me.

Best,

Mike

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Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
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princessbelle
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Post by princessbelle » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:25 pm

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Last edited by princessbelle on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DMHE
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by DMHE » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:59 pm

Nates I had the same problem with the AirFit F10. I am a new user, this is my third week. I was so frustrated and not getting any sleep. It turns out that the mask was too small. The nurse practioner recommended I try the Quattro Fx in a larger size. Do you think you have the correct size mask? Does the cushion around your chin ride up and cause leaks in the sides of the mask when you try to adjust it? Just a thought. DMHE

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NateS
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:16 pm

palerider wrote:
NateS wrote:May I ask what specific liner you are successfully using with your AirFit F10?
fwiw, I used the remzzz liners on my mirage quattro, they didn't stop leaks, but they did keep them from being noisy, and helped keep the mask in place (without them, the mask would get sweaty/oily or whatever, and start sliding around, and making annoying sleep disrupting noises)
I've tried the stiff stick-on ones and they didn't work and I also tried the soft floppy ones and they didn't work either; tonight I'm going to try cutting one out of an old T-shirt! Maybe I can get it closer to the correct size and shape of the F10 cushion.

Regards, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx

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cathyf
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by cathyf » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:20 pm

In my case the small F10 leaked because it was too big. For me "just right" is with the bottom of the cushion below the indentation of my chin with my mouth closed, and when I open my mouth, the mask is above the indentation and below my lip. I think even with a beard the mask would be above the beard line on the bottom.

Do you get leakage out the sides? I would think that would be the place where the beard would get in the way.

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NateS
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Re: Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Post by NateS » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:25 pm

Macpage wrote:
NateS wrote:I can't believe the leaks I'm getting with my new AirFit F10 Mask!
Nate,

You're trying the F10 which I've used for about 5 months, and I'm trying the Wisp after reading a lot of your posts on it. Small world!

I never had a huge issue with leaks on the F10 albeit on moderate pressures. Most of my leaks come from active sleeping on my side and stomach. However, I do find that I tighten the top straps pretty snug without any nose bridge issues. This helped with the upper leaks. Sometimes would get bottom leaks around the mouth due to jaw drop, which tape fixed. Before the tape, I would sometimes find my lower lip fighting with the bottom seal.

I do have to note that I could only get by on 4 or 5 days stubble. After that, my leak rate would increase. Also, if I got my mouth tape close to the contoured sections of the cushion, I couldn't get a seal at all.

The F10 sure is comfortable, quiet, and user friendly. It seems a lot of posters get it working in a lot of different situations. It might just be the classic mask fit issue, which would be a shame because there aren't alot of ffm's like this. Have you tried the Quattro Air or the F&P Simplus. I'm trying the F&P Eson with the Wisp and it shares a lot with the Simplus. I think everything about the Eson is so suited to a ffm. I really want to get my hands on the Simplus outside of the DME.

PS-the Wisp is a hoot! Whether it works or not, everyone should get to try it. It's one of those that just demonstrates what can be accomplished with a little thought. If only they had thought out more sizes...like a slight extra depth set of cushions. Thanks for all the great posts on it. Really helped me.

Best,

Mike
Glad you found my posts on the Wisp to be helpful, Mike.

I'm trying the F10 because I can no longer tolerate the dry mouth, even with my sweatband over my mouth because it still slips down during the night, so if I was going to relent and try a FFM the F10 seems really minimalist for a FFM. Very roomy on the inside yet leaves much of my face open and outside of the mask. And with the F10 there is no problem with the cushion sliding up my nose and partially closing off my nostrils at the bottom, which was the one drawback of the Wisp for me.

Mike, if it would help you, do you know that there is now a "Wide" size cushion for the Wisp?

Best wishes, Nate

_________________
Mask: DreamWear Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV; Dreamwear Nasal Mask Original; CPAPMax Pillow; ResScan & SleepyHead
Central sleep apnea AHI 62.6 pre-VPAP. Now 0 to 1.3
Present Rx: EPAP: 8; IPAPlo:11; IPAPHi: 23; PSMin: 3; PSMax: 15
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it." —Groucho Marx