Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

Sorry pr, I was writing at the same time as you!

palerider wrote:

NateS wrote:

NateS wrote: We worked on making a homemade liner, and have one set to try tonight. Wish me luck!

Now I am truly, truly baffled!
I had a 0.00 AHI. That's the good news! <- not really!
The bad news is that the machine's screen gave me a red angry face under mask fit,
What's going on!

your leaks were so large the machine couldn't detect any events.
if you turn off the calendar, you'll see data about how large they were, and how much of the time you spent over the leak threshold, as well as all the LL flags at the top, and the red bars signifying large leaks on the strips below.

Yes, I understand your point about the 0.00 not being a reliable reading due to the leaks - my point was just that that was good news until I saw the red angry face and the chart. On the other hand, my AHI has been down low for a long time. I've been on my VPAP since Dec 2011 and I do not have obstructive apnea. It's centrals that I watch for and they've been rare for a long time since being on the machine. My objective is to keep them way down while avoiding leaks which disturb our sleep and avoiding dry mouth.

Is the below what additional info you wanted to see?:



Best wishes, Nate

M'ohms wrote:Refer to palerider's previous comment a about detection when leaks are large.

I use the F10 and have ASV pressures up to 25 every night. I wear a Large even though my DME fitted me for a Medium. The bottom of the mask cups my chin slightly thus anchoring it on my face. My vulnerability for leaks is in the same place as yours.

With the mask anchored around my chin, I am able to stabilize the position of the mask at my nose area. Tight around the jaw, looser around the nose. Allow the cushion to inflate at the nose area to fill in the low spots. I also start out the night with everything a little tighter than I would like because as the night progresses, my facial structure relaxes too. By morning, the mask is just snug enough to prevent leaks!

I have a homemade mask liner made out of micro fleece. This fabric might do a better job of gripping to your beard to further help in stabilizing the mask.

Thank you for these additional tips, M'ohms.

I have a large F10 and the bottom of it fits into the notch below my lower lip. I don't think they make a cushion larger than "Large" so I don't think I can get one which would go under my chin. Also, I printed out the fitting guide and it confirms my size as Large.

But I am going to try all your other tips and suggestions.

Best wishes, Nate

M'ohms wrote:Sorry pr, I was writing at the same time as you!

never be sorry for that. I don't view it as detracting from what I say if someone agrees with me, I feel it helps reinforce the point if multiple join in and say essentially the same thing, or 'yeah, what he said'

and, if I screw up, please do correct me

NateS wrote:Is the below what additional info you wanted to see?

yes, showing that you were over redline 48% of the night, I've heard that at around 30lpm leak the s9 machines start having problems figuring out what kind of an event you have, and yours were 52lpm at the 95% mark.

you can zoom in on the waveform and scroll, and see whether it looks like you had events.

it IS possible you didn't have anything that would count, but you might not even be able to tell from the flow trace... though eyeballs are sometimes better than the machine at spotting some things.

After last night, my main two questions are:

1) Leaks
How do I track down these terrible leaks when my leak alarm only beeped a couple short times during the night, and there was no noise or sensation of air rush coming out from anywhere around the mask?

2) Dry Mouth
Why did I get the worst dry mouth I ever had while wearing a full face mask, worse than any dryness previously experienced from wearing any nasal mask, and what is the best alternative to stopping this mouth dryness?

My AHI and events on therapy have not been a serious concern for the past several years, at least as long as I stay on therapy, but I need to track down and reduce the mask leaks to a minimum; and I need to eliminate as much of the mouth dryness as possible, which only occurs during the therapy, as it is of course an unhealthy side effect, not to mention the discomfort.

That's my concentration at this point. (As you may have noted in my signature line, my AHI was 62.6 back in 2011 before therapy started, but since then my AHI pretty much runs between 0 to 1.3 when measured with leak rates staying below the red line.) But I want to switch to this AirFit F10 because one minimalist full face mask beats putting on 3 different things every night and fighting to keep the chinstrap and headband in place over my mouth.)

If at all possible, I want to stick with this mask and master and fix the problem. I don't want to go back to horsing around with ineffective chinstraps (tried them all), taping (which gives me a hostage panic attack) or a sweat band around my mouth (which when I wake up, is usually down around my neck instead of over my mouth). Though our dog always seems very pleased in the morning to see me with the headband around my neck, giving the two of us one more thing in common, I guess. )

Thanks in advance for all past and further advice and tips.

Best wishes, Nate

Gee - Did I scare everybody off?

Regards, Nate

Re-reading some of these posts made me think of something that I tried last year. That is, to get a stretchy headband and pull it over your head and over the mask just above the exhalation ports (being careful not to block them, of course). This will put direct pressure in the area where the leaks seem to be occurring. Be careful, though, because some headbands are tighter than others, and I bought headbands that are on the bigger/looser end of the spectrum.

Maybe the indirect pressure of the original headgear's top straps is just not doing it for you. If so, then the headband trick might work. If not, headbands have proven to be multi-purpose tools in my ever-evolving repair kit. Good luck!

M'ohms wrote:Re-reading some of these posts made me think of something that I tried last year. That is, to get a stretchy headband and pull it over your head and over the mask just above the exhalation ports (being careful not to block them, of course). This will put direct pressure in the area where the leaks seem to be occurring. Be careful, though, because some headbands are tighter than others, and I bought headbands that are on the bigger/looser end of the spectrum.

Maybe the indirect pressure of the original headgear's top straps is just not doing it for you. If so, then the headband trick might work. If not, headbands have proven to be multi-purpose tools in my ever-evolving repair kit. Good luck!

Okay, thanks I'll try that. In the meantime, here's my update. Last night, we cut out a larger homemade liner (wider margins both inside and outside the opening), but the leaks were much worse and the leak alarm went off so much that just before 6AM my beloved begged me to switch back to my Wisp + Headband over my mouth in the middle of the night, and here is the result:



As you can see, the leaks were horrible with the AirFit F10+bigger, wider homemade liner. Then when I switched to my old Wisp nasal+Headband-over-my-mouth, the leak line dropped below the red line and stayed below the rest of the night! It's as if my Wisp is jealous and desperately trying to win me back by sabotaging the new AirFit F10 performance!

I'm not giving up though. I am going to order some Remzzz and see what happens with those.

Best wishes, Nate

PS - You will note from the 6AM forward portion of the charts above that it is not uncommon for me, with my ASV machine on, to have 0.00 to very low AHI reports even when I stay below the red line and have no large leaks.

NateS wrote:

palerider wrote:

NateS wrote:May I ask what specific liner you are successfully using with your AirFit F10?

fwiw, I used the remzzz liners on my mirage quattro, they didn't stop leaks, but they did keep them from being noisy, and helped keep the mask in place (without them, the mask would get sweaty/oily or whatever, and start sliding around, and making annoying sleep disrupting noises)

I've tried the stiff stick-on ones and they didn't work and I also tried the soft floppy ones and they didn't work either; tonight I'm going to try cutting one out of an old T-shirt! Maybe I can get it closer to the correct size and shape of the F10 cushion.

Regards, Nate

Nate, you asked about the liner that I use. I'm using RemZzzs and my own homemade liners. There's a pattern online; I don't know the URL but if you google "DIY Mask Liner" you should find it. I bought a big white t-shirt at the Goodwill Store, and used that instead of going to a fabric store. I still have some unused RemZzzzs and have a stack of both... as they wear out I'll break out another RemZzz, and at some point I cut out a few more from my pattern. The package says they are one-time use only because the fabric absorbs facial oils, etc... but I have found that I can wash them, lay them out flat to air dry and iron them for many uses. I do use them only one time, using a clean one every night. Every couple of weeks i put them in a mesh bag and toss them in the washer. When I run out of RemZzzs maybe I won't even buy another pack of them...

NateS wrote:May I ask what specific liner you are successfully using with your AirFit F10?

library lady wrote:Nate, you asked about the liner that I use. I'm using RemZzzs and my own homemade liners. There's a pattern online; I don't know the URL but if you google "DIY Mask Liner" you should find it. I bought a big white t-shirt at the Goodwill Store, and used that instead of going to a fabric store. I still have some unused RemZzzzs and have a stack of both... as they wear out I'll break out another RemZzz, and at some point I cut out a few more from my pattern. The package says they are one-time use only because the fabric absorbs facial oils, etc... but I have found that I can wash them, lay them out flat to air dry and iron them for many uses. I do use them only one time, using a clean one every night. Every couple of weeks i put them in a mesh bag and toss them in the washer. When I run out of RemZzzs maybe I won't even buy another pack of them...

Thanks a lot, library lady! We did download and print out the DIY pattern, which isn't labeled as to size, so we made the assumption it was about medium, and enlarged it. But maybe our t-shirt material was too thin. I will get a better idea when I see the sample Remzzzs I just ordered earlier this evening.

Best wishes, Nate

Nate,

If the Wisp is riding up and blocking your nostrils try cutting the inner seal down a bit. I cut mine and it no longer blocks my nostrils when it rides up. I'm pleased to hear that they make a wide now. I'll try to get one. The thing that I most dislike on the Wisp is that I have to cinch it down to where it impinges on my sinuses. Maybe with a wide I can get it out past them. I switched the last few nights back to my Nuance Pro nasal pillow, but I'm having bad leaks with it too. I'm thinking I will have to shave to try a full-face, but I guess I'll try taping first. See if I'm opening my mouth and leaking there.

Another Split Night

1hr 25 min on the AirFit F10+Homemade liner
5hr 47 min on the Wisp+Headband-over-mouth
AHI reading: 0.00





Nota bene: Point at which green leakline plunges and flattens

Nate

Suenyo wrote:Nate,

If the Wisp is riding up and blocking your nostrils try cutting the inner seal down a bit. I cut mine and it no longer blocks my nostrils when it rides up. I'm pleased to hear that they make a wide now. I'll try to get one. The thing that I most dislike on the Wisp is that I have to cinch it down to where it impinges on my sinuses. Maybe with a wide I can get it out past them. I switched the last few nights back to my Nuance Pro nasal pillow, but I'm having bad leaks with it too. I'm thinking I will have to shave to try a full-face, but I guess I'll try taping first. See if I'm opening my mouth and leaking there.

Suenyo, that's very interesting! How did you manage to cut down the bottom seal without causing the Wisp to leak like crazy? Any chance of before and after photos?

As for cinching the Wisp down, yes I tried doing that by taking a second headband and using it as a strap tucked under my chin and attached to each side strap. It worked to keep the bottom of the Wisp from partially blocking my nostrils, but it left a heck of a red dent dug into my nose every morning, so I abandoned that idea! Not to mention the fact that that caused me to have four (4) different gizmos to fiddle with and try to keep adjusted just right all night!

Best wishes, Nate

Just a question here... I have to tell my machine what sort of mask I'm wearing, and somewhere I got the idea that it uses that to decide if I'm leaking or not. When you are switching between masks, are you resetting your machine?