Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

cathyf wrote:Just a question here... I have to tell my machine what sort of mask I'm wearing, and somewhere I got the idea that it uses that to decide if I'm leaking or not. When you are switching between masks, are you resetting your machine?

Oh boy! You are so right!

When I first started trying to use the new F10 a few nights ago, I re-set the machine from "Nasal" to "Full" and when I have been switching masks half asleep in the middle of the night, back to my old Wisp, I totally forget to switch it back!

All of these charts from the last few nights have been with the machine set at "Full."

So I should throw out the readings past the nightly switch, I guess. Or what???

Best wishes, Nate

On the other hand, while the readings may be not reliable for the 2nd portion of each of these nights, the leak problems occur during the 1st portion, when the machine setting matches the mask being worn.

Which leads to an associated question: Does the Mask choice on the machine alter the force of the airflow needed to create the designated variable pressure responses (I'm on ASV), or merely affect the calculation of the numbers the machine reports records and reports which create the graphs, etc.?

I just PM'd Jedimark to ask him this question and gave him the link to this thread.

Nate

NateS wrote:So I should throw out the readings past the nightly switch, I guess. Or what???

Best wishes, Nate

On the other hand, while the readings may be not reliable for the 2nd portion of each of these nights, the leak problems occur during the 1st portion, when the machine setting matches the mask being worn.

Which leads to an associated question: Does the Mask choice on the machine alter the force of the airflow needed to create the designated variable pressure responses (I'm on ASV), or merely affect the calculation of the numbers the machine reports records and reports which create the graphs, etc.?

I believe, and others may and do, disagree, that the mask choice in the resmed world is what prs1 copied (with more precision) in their 60 series, it has to do with the restriction of the mask to airflow.

I did a little spreadsheet of masks and the resistance spec'd in the manuals pretty much grouped around with full face, then nasal, then pillows.

I DO know that if my vpap auto is set for full face, and I put nasal pillows on it, it won't automatically stop when I take the mask off, (because it's seeing more resistance to flow than a full face mask off situation) but if I set the mask setting to pillows, then it auto stops properly.

it makes sense that there'd be a minor tweak to the pressure delivery depending on what kind of mask it is, to get the 'right' pressure in your nose/mouth.

ymmv, batteries not included, some assembly required, not valid in where prohibited, tax is extra, etc.

IOW... I think it matters, but I don't think it matters MUCH.

Nate, when I did the DIY liner, I did not adapt it to the size of my mask - I created it as is, knowing that if too big I could cut it down. You do need to have some of the fabric going beyond the edges of the cushion, on both sides so that none of the cushion touches your face... the fabric that goes beyond will curl away from your face. When you get the RemZzzs that you ordered, read the directions on the package and you will see what I mean when you put them on. The DIY liner is bigger than the RemZzzs for my Medium F10, but I didn't cut it down; it works as is. Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for jumping back into this thread, palerider - I really appreciate it.
I was worried that you had given up on me.

palerider wrote:…

it makes sense that there'd be a minor tweak to the pressure delivery depending on what kind of mask it is, to get the 'right' pressure in your nose/mouth. …

IOW... I think it matters, but I don't think it matters MUCH.

So are you saying I shouldn't necessarily worry about it? I know that if I forced myself awake enough to turn on the light to find my eyeglasses, jump into the clinical menu, find the mask portion and switch the settings in the middle of the night, there is no way I would fall back asleep for the rest of the night.

Taking off the Airfit F10 and slipping on the Wisp, headband etc. is about all I can manage in the dark without waking myself completely up for the night!

Best wishes, Nate

PS - Any comments on my leak and event charts for last night appearing above, before and after the mask switch?

library lady wrote:Nate, when I did the DIY liner, I did not adapt it to the size of my mask - I created it as is, knowing that if too big I could cut it down. You do need to have some of the fabric going beyond the edges of the cushion, on both sides so that none of the cushion touches your face... the fabric that goes beyond will curl away from your face. When you get the RemZzzs that you ordered, read the directions on the package and you will see what I mean when you put them on. The DIY liner is bigger than the RemZzzs for my Medium F10, but I didn't cut it down; it works as is. Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks very much for your additional ideas and suggestions, library lady!

The more detailed information I receive keeps me hopeful of staying on course until I solve this leak dilemma with the F10, so that I can get to the point where I can retire my Wisp+Headband over my mouth, Ruby, etc.

And I've ordered some gel for the dry mouth, since I get it even with the FullFace F10.

Best wishes, Nate

NateS wrote:Thanks very much for jumping back into this thread, palerider - I really appreciate it.
I was worried that you had given up on me.

never, it's just sometimes I don't feel that there's anything I have to add that might help...

NateS wrote:

palerider wrote:…

it makes sense that there'd be a minor tweak to the pressure delivery depending on what kind of mask it is, to get the 'right' pressure in your nose/mouth. …

IOW... I think it matters, but I don't think it matters MUCH.

So are you saying I shouldn't necessarily worry about it? I know that if I forced myself awake enough to turn on the light to find my eyeglasses, jump into the clinical menu, find the mask portion and switch the settings in the middle of the night, there is no way I would fall back asleep for the rest of the night.

when I was still switching between the mir quattro and p10, I left the setting on pillows. it's not exact, but I think it's close enough. and, as with you, I'd NEVER get back to sleep after jumping through all those hoops!

NateS wrote: PS - Any comments on my leak and event charts for last night appearing above, before and after the mask switch?

I couldn't think of anything worth adding... it's clear you're still having big leak problems, though they didn't look as continuous... but still way too much.

I've got a friend that was using the quattro air with his big bushy beard, and having acceptable, though not great leaks with it. the air uses the same cushion but a different frame, I believe. maybe he got it tighter at the bottom?

NateS wrote:

library lady wrote:Nate, when I did the DIY liner, I did not adapt it to the size of my mask - I created it as is, knowing that if too big I could cut it down. You do need to have some of the fabric going beyond the edges of the cushion, on both sides so that none of the cushion touches your face... the fabric that goes beyond will curl away from your face. When you get the RemZzzs that you ordered, read the directions on the package and you will see what I mean when you put them on. The DIY liner is bigger than the RemZzzs for my Medium F10, but I didn't cut it down; it works as is. Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks very much for your additional ideas and suggestions, library lady!

The more detailed information I receive keeps me hopeful of staying on course until I solve this leak dilemma with the F10, so that I can get to the point where I can retire my Wisp+Headband over my mouth, Ruby, etc.

And I've ordered some gel for the dry mouth, since I get it even with the FullFace F10.

Best wishes, Nate

Nate, sorry to see you still can't get the leaks worked out. I had dry mouth with the F10 as well until I taped, though I know this isn't a favorable option for you. It also helped with any jaw drop leaks at the bottom of the mask. It seems like the challenge is finding a way to keep our mouths closed or finding a way to accomodate them being open. Easier said than done obviously Funny thing. My mouth has been even drier using the Wisp and Eson nasal masks even with acceptable leak levels. I can't remember if you mentioned ever using a mask liner with the wisp? I was wondering if it might help with the Wisp riding up and blocking things in case you end up reverting to it. I'm certainly willing to give it a try if you had some positive experience. A lot of other wisp using posters recommended the mask liners to improve the wisp's comfort and fit. Keep plugging with the F10. I'll keep following as I'm learning a great deal.

Best,

Mike

Nate. Too bad you are still having issues. Last night with my F10, one of the bottom straps came off around 3am and stayed off till I woke up at 7am. My leak rate went up but still stayed below large leak territory. SH showed me going into LL for 2.35% of the night.

So its a great mask. Very stable (even with 3 anchors as last night taught me). So hang in there and work out the kinks. Its worth it.

Nate, I had a consistently dry mouth with the F10 when I started using it. I never had dry mouth with the QFX. Couldn't figure out why one and not the other...anyway, when I woke up with the dry mouth, I popped a xylimelt for a while, then started sucking to create a vacuum in my mouth. After about a week of this, I no longer experience dry mouth! I guess having a vacuum seal keeps my big mouth shut!

Macpage wrote:
Nate, sorry to see you still can't get the leaks worked out. I had dry mouth with the F10 as well until I taped, though I know this isn't a favorable option for you. It also helped with any jaw drop leaks at the bottom of the mask. It seems like the challenge is finding a way to keep our mouths closed or finding a way to accomodate them being open. Easier said than done obviously Funny thing. My mouth has been even drier using the Wisp and Eson nasal masks even with acceptable leak levels. I can't remember if you mentioned ever using a mask liner with the wisp? I was wondering if it might help with the Wisp riding up and blocking things in case you end up reverting to it. I'm certainly willing to give it a try if you had some positive experience. A lot of other wisp using posters recommended the mask liners to improve the wisp's comfort and fit. Keep plugging with the F10. I'll keep following as I'm learning a great deal.

Best,

Mike

Thanks very much for your encouragement and interest, Mike.

Yes, even though I bought the AirFit F10 with free return insurance from cpap.com, I have made up my mind I am going to keep it and keep working with it until I resolve the leaks, and I am not going to worry about the return privilege time running out. I am determined to conquer this otherwise very comfortable mask, even if it takes months! And even if it means switching back and forth between the Wisp and the F10 for awhile.

I am hoping that my sample pack of Remzzzs will arrive soon so I can try those, and if those don't work after some fiddling, I will try something else.

When I first got the Wisp, I did buy a Padacheek cloth liner for it, but the hole for my nose was too small and the instructions said to cut it (carefully) to fit. I tried, but ended up butchering it so badly that I had to throw it away - my clumsiness and not Padacheek's fault, but as it turned out I learned to use the Wisp without any liner but yes I do sometimes still have the "riding up" problem with it but not as often. And leaks are no longer a problem with my Wisp. So I am likewise going to work with my F10 until I conquer the problem and get it right!

Best wishes, Nate

Guest1 wrote:Nate. Too bad you are still having issues. Last night with my F10, one of the bottom straps came off around 3am and stayed off till I woke up at 7am. My leak rate went up but still stayed below large leak territory. SH showed me going into LL for 2.35% of the night.

So its a great mask. Very stable (even with 3 anchors as last night taught me). So hang in there and work out the kinks. Its worth it.

Thanks Guest1 for your encouragement too! I am going to stick with it and get these leaks resolved one way or another and I will keep all of you posted as long as you may be interested. Even if it ends up taking some ritual chants and dancing around the bed three times every night before climbing in.

Best wishes, Nate

M'ohms wrote:Nate, I had a consistently dry mouth with the F10 when I started using it. I never had dry mouth with the QFX. Couldn't figure out why one and not the other...anyway, when I woke up with the dry mouth, I popped a xylimelt for a while, then started sucking to create a vacuum in my mouth. After about a week of this, I no longer experience dry mouth! I guess having a vacuum seal keeps my big mouth shut!

Thanks, M'ohms - I never would have thought about that idea of creating a vacuum, but I'll try anything within reason.

I did try those xylimelt things one night - kinda messy but I still have more in the box I can try.

Best wishes, Nate

I did it!

Last night, for the first time, I managed to wear the AirFit F10 for 6 1/2 hours before the leak alarm went off, and had a likely accurate AHI of 0.00 with a 95% leak rate right on 24.0!





The four little spikes at the beginning were simply the four times I had to reach in and scratch my nose because the new homemade liner we cut from my same old T-shirt was such a HUGE floppy donut that it was tickling my nose until I readjusted it. In fact, it was so large the top part of it served as a sleep mask over my eyes! (I'm talking about the liner here, not my nose. Just thought I'd clarify that.)

Stay tuned - tonight the sample pack from Remmmz was delivered and I hope to try one of those tonight - perhaps for a less ticklish, more conventionally-sized liner.

Best wishes, Nate

NateS wrote:I did it!

Last night, for the first time, I managed to wear the AirFit F10 for 6 1/2 hours before the leak alarm went off, and had a likely accurate AHI of 0.00 with a 95% leak rate right on 24.0!

keep at it! you're making progress on those leaks. now if you can get your 95% number lower, won't get waked up by the alarm anymore! (you could, of course, just turn the leak alarm off) and keep working on the leaks in quiet