Need Advice-AirFit F10 Leaks!

cathyf wrote:In my case the small F10 leaked because it was too big. For me "just right" is with the bottom of the cushion below the indentation of my chin with my mouth closed, and when I open my mouth, the mask is above the indentation and below my lip. I think even with a beard the mask would be above the beard line on the bottom.

Do you get leakage out the sides? I would think that would be the place where the beard would get in the way.

Thanks for your reply, cathyf!

Actually, the leaks seem to start on the left or the right side up near the top of my nose.


Regards, Nate

I'm loving my Airfit F10 for about six months now, mostly because it rarely ever leaks... that is, after I lost my goatee and started shaving right before bedtime with an inexpensive Braun electric shaver... I just do the areas the mask touches my face. A two minute operation, tops. I've generally experienced near zero leaks but then my face is almost totally average for your basic white American male (hey, did I just insult myself just then? ) Quick addendum: I do use a Padacheek liner too, but mostly for comfort.

princessbelle wrote:F10 first had the small for her mask and for her headgear, took the mask in and got the extra small for her. I still had issues so I took it back to get the Quattro and the lady talked me into trying different head gear.....large because they don't carry the standard I ran out room strapping that baby up. Well talked to my favorite person at my DME and she found a medium one in the fitting room and mailed to me promptly, actually had it the very next day. Went to bed and no matter what I did, use my home made liner (bandana with just a triangle cut around my nose) took that off, changed my mask to the p10 and darn if they would not stop leaking either. I gave up, grabbed my pillows and went to the couch. This is way more frustrating that I thought it would be. I am frustrated, the husband gets frustrated which means I get upset with myself for not getting this figured out. I guess I will try the wisp again, last time I tried that with a taped mouth I woke up choking, not cool!

Don't give up, princessbelle!

I have been on cpap since Dec. 2011 despite many frustrations, and it has helped me so much! I know what you are going through right now, because of my current dilemma with the F10: First I get the noise of the mask leak, but if I sleep through that; then I get the noise of the "beep beep beep" of the leak alarm on the machine; but if I manage to sleep through that, then I get my loving girlfriend exclaiming "I've got to get some sleep! I've got to get some rest!"

Best wishes, Nate

Sir NoddinOff wrote:I'm loving my Airfit F10 for about six months now, mostly because it rarely ever leaks... that is, after I lost my goatee and started shaving right before bedtime with an inexpensive Braun electric shaver... I just do the areas the mask touches my face. A two minute operation, tops. I've generally experienced near zero leaks but then my face is almost totally average for your basic white American male (hey, did I just insult myself just then? ) Quick addendum: I do use a Padacheek liner too, but mostly for comfort.

Thanks for your encouragement, Sir N!

I am tempted to try the Braun bit hear the top where the leaks occur, although I am not sure I have any hair up that high on my cheeks.

But the thought of totally changing my appearance after many years - that would truly be a last resort!
You are a brave man!

Best wishes, Nate

DMHE wrote:Nates I had the same problem with the AirFit F10. I am a new user, this is my third week. I was so frustrated and not getting any sleep. It turns out that the mask was too small. The nurse practioner recommended I try the Quattro Fx in a larger size. Do you think you have the correct size mask? Does the cushion around your chin ride up and cause leaks in the sides of the mask when you try to adjust it? Just a thought. DMHE

Thanks for your suggestions, DMHE!

I do have the large cushion on the F10 and it does seem to fit well into the notch below my bottom lip.
The cushion does not seem to ride up.
But something makes it leak on the left or right side, near the top of the mask, after I've been asleep in the same position for about an hour or two.

Regards, Nate

NateS wrote:I'm trying the F10 because I can no longer tolerate the dry mouth, even with my sweatband over my mouth because it still slips down during the night, so if I was going to relent and try a FFM the F10 seems really minimalist for a FFM. Very roomy on the inside yet leaves much of my face open and outside of the mask. And with the F10 there is no problem with the cushion sliding up my nose and partially closing off my nostrils at the bottom, which was the one drawback of the Wisp for me.

Mike, if it would help you, do you know that there is now a "Wide" size cushion for the Wisp?

I can certainly see why you would try the F10 for a ffm. There's not much more there than some nasal mask designs. I do give those top straps an extra pull more so than some others for leaks at the spots you mention. I haven't noticed any real draw back so far. The nose has survived and face marks aren't too bad. I do plan on trying some liners just to make sure I'm covering the bases. I really hope you get it figured out. It's nice to have a go to ffm in the tool box.

My mouth and nasal cavity gets dry using the Wisp even when I'm not opening! Much more so than with the F10. I guess it's just the nature of these tight to the nose interfaces. I know exactly what you mean about it sliding up and hitting you. It happens to me every night after 5 hours. It doesn't keep me from breathing just aggravates me a great deal. I think it's because the L is too big for me, and the S/M is way too small. Thus, the wide probably wouldn't help in my case. They really need a true medium and another series of cushions that are about .25" deeper with a little something to keep that bottom seal more stable. Good luck with the F10!

Best,

Mike

A few things worth considering:
1) Did you use the mask fit template. I was given a Large F10. And I thought it fit pretty well. But then after printing the mask template (from resmed UK site), making sure its to actual scale, I found that I am at the boundry of M and S. So I got a Medium sized cushion (fits the same frame as large). So you should be sure that you have the right size.

2) A cloth liner made from an old thin cotton t-shirt or a piece of thicker fleece stops most leaks for me. After 11 weeks of same cushion use, it still seals well. I use the DIY mask liner template that you can google, and cut an inch wider all around that. That way my cloth liner is anchored between the frame and mask cushion. This makes sure the liner doesn't move out of place during the night. It can happen because our mouth may twich, munch, grind or swallow when we are sleeping.

3) With the F10, I wear the mask a bit tighter on the top straps and real loose on the bottom strap. I am an active side sleeper so I test the mask by digging into my firm memory foam pillow. My pressures run till 14 on max.

4) After wearing the mask and starting the machine, do you lift off the mask from the face and make sure that the cushion inflates (especially the part at the top). That air cushion is great at stopping the leaks near the top which typically hit your eye and wake you up.

5) If all else fails, have you considered trying the Resmed Quattro Air. Same cushion different frame and headgear. You can buy those pretty cheap on eBay and try another mask that way. Its anchor is on forehead and may work better with your facial topography.

The leaking out the top was a sign of the mask being too big for me. Something that I was doing wrong was not pulling the mask down far enough. I would put it on over my head, and it was too tight, and I would stop when it was in the right place. But everything was squashed and the mask would "recoil" and creep back up, and leak out the top. Loosening the straps a bit allows me to get the mask, and headgear, down in both front and back, and then the mask floats straight out when the cushion inflates, and everything stays sealed.

Can you wear glasses with your F10? I can with the x-small. If I had realized that I was supposed to be able to wear my glasses with this mask, I would have figured out a lot earlier that the mask was too big because it was coming up too high on my nose.

Guest1 wrote:A few things worth considering:
1) Did you use the mask fit template. I was given a Large F10. And I thought it fit pretty well. But then after printing the mask template (from resmed UK site), making sure its to actual scale, I found that I am at the boundry of M and S. So I got a Medium sized cushion (fits the same frame as large). So you should be sure that you have the right size.

2) A cloth liner made from an old thin cotton t-shirt or a piece of thicker fleece stops most leaks for me. After 11 weeks of same cushion use, it still seals well. I use the DIY mask liner template that you can google, and cut an inch wider all around that. That way my cloth liner is anchored between the frame and mask cushion. This makes sure the liner doesn't move out of place during the night. It can happen because our mouth may twich, munch, grind or swallow when we are sleeping.

3) With the F10, I wear the mask a bit tighter on the top straps and real loose on the bottom strap. I am an active side sleeper so I test the mask by digging into my firm memory foam pillow. My pressures run till 14 on max.

4) After wearing the mask and starting the machine, do you lift off the mask from the face and make sure that the cushion inflates (especially the part at the top). That air cushion is great at stopping the leaks near the top which typically hit your eye and wake you up.

5) If all else fails, have you considered trying the Resmed Quattro Air. Same cushion different frame and headgear. You can buy those pretty cheap on eBay and try another mask that way. Its anchor is on forehead and may work better with your facial topography.

Excellent points, Guest1!

We worked on making a homemade liner, and have one set to try tonight. Wish me luck!

Regards, Nate

cathyf wrote:The leaking out the top was a sign of the mask being too big for me. Something that I was doing wrong was not pulling the mask down far enough. I would put it on over my head, and it was too tight, and I would stop when it was in the right place. But everything was squashed and the mask would "recoil" and creep back up, and leak out the top. Loosening the straps a bit allows me to get the mask, and headgear, down in both front and back, and then the mask floats straight out when the cushion inflates, and everything stays sealed.

Can you wear glasses with your F10? I can with the x-small. If I had realized that I was supposed to be able to wear my glasses with this mask, I would have figured out a lot earlier that the mask was too big because it was coming up too high on my nose.

No, I tried it and my eyeglasses don't sit down correctly on my nose with this mask! I ordered a Large because I've been a Large in all the nasal masks I've ever tried, but maybe I'd better check with the fitting guide!

Thanks a lot for this tip, carthyf!

Regards, Nate

NateS wrote:

Sheriff Buford wrote:Since I've retired, I've grown a goatee. I uses to get zero leaks (it's true... ask Pugsy.... if she'll come back! ) until the goatee. Everywhere I have hair (on my face), I now get leaks. As you mentioned, I can't get the silicone to seal on my face like I could prior to the goatee. The mask will slide around where the hair is. To be honest, I get leaks like crazy... sometimes up in the 80's or 90"s l/h. As long as my AHI is low, I'm ignoring the leaks until pugs pulls out her baseball bat dedicated to the side of my head.

Sheriff

Sheriff, in September I see you were also using the F10. Are you still using that mask? If so, any tips?

Nate

The vent on the F10 was too noisy for the wife... but I use it for a change of scenery. As you probably heard, the mask was very lightweight. I also was able to use the MIrage Quattro successfully, but I liked the F10 better. I wasn't a big fan of the forehead brace on the Quattro. But again, of the three masks, I was able to be leak-free thru the night until I grew the goatee. Now I get leaks with all three of em'. I don't think my leak rates are hurting my AHI result. Look at my avatar... no goatee or no leaks?

Sheriff

As a fuzzy guy, I'll chime in (see my avatar ). I go back and forth between the Air and F10. I get more leaks on the F10 not because of my whiskers but from my pillow pushing against the plastic frame/headgear. I prefer the F10 but as a side-sleeper, I find that the forehead support on the Air keeps the mask from moving around as much. Most of my leaks are at the nose bridge not at my beard. Washing my face and the mask before bedtime is a routine that helps. I also use the mask fit feature every few days to ensure the neoprene has not stretched and tension needs to be adjusted.

NateS wrote:
We worked on making a homemade liner, and have one set to try tonight. Wish me luck!

Regards, Nate

Now I am truly, truly baffled!

The good news is that the homemade liner seemed to work perfectly - Applying it between my face and the cushion of the F10, I was able to get my straps adjusted so that the leak alarm stopped within minutes after I first turned the machine on, and the alarm never came back on the rest of the night, and as far as I could tell, I had no audible leaks out of the mask and no sensations of air escaping out of the sides of the mask, and we both seemed to sleep uninterrupted for six hours, and when I woke up, the machine's screen said I had a 0.00 AHI. That's the good news!

The bad news is that the machine's screen gave me a red angry face under mask fit, and my mouth was so dry - much drier than when I used my Wisp nasal mask, that the inside of my cheeks were cleaving to my gums and I had to turn off the machine after the 6 hours, rinse and drink some cold water, then rinse with Biotene for some relief, and then go back to sleep without putting the mask back on to let my mouth heal. And look at this crazy report from SleepyHead! (Never mind the 2016 date - that's an unrelated problem.)





What's going on!

Regards, Nate

NateS wrote:

NateS wrote: We worked on making a homemade liner, and have one set to try tonight. Wish me luck!

Now I am truly, truly baffled!
I had a 0.00 AHI. That's the good news! <- not really!
The bad news is that the machine's screen gave me a red angry face under mask fit,
What's going on!

your leaks were so large the machine couldn't reliably detect any events.
if you turn off the calendar, you'll see data about how large they were, and how much of the time you spent over the leak threshold, as well as all the LL flags at the top, and the red bars signifying large leaks on the strips below.

Refer to palerider's previous comment a about detection when leaks are large.

I use the F10 and have ASV pressures up to 25 every night. I wear a Large even though my DME fitted me for a Medium. The bottom of the mask cups my chin slightly thus anchoring it on my face. My vulnerability for leaks is in the same place as yours.

With the mask anchored around my chin, I am able to stabilize the position of the mask at my nose area. Tight around the jaw, looser around the nose. Allow the cushion to inflate at the nose area to fill in the low spots. I also start out the night with everything a little tighter than I would like because as the night progresses, my facial structure relaxes too. By morning, the mask is just snug enough to prevent leaks!

I have a homemade mask liner made out of micro fleece. This fabric might do a better job of gripping to your beard to further help in stabilizing the mask.