COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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chunkyfrog
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by chunkyfrog » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:44 am

Hexus wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:19 pm
Airbreak.dev has just released instructions on jailbreaking resmed airsense 10 CPAP which allows the machine to access all other modes. The primary purpose was to turn the machine into a ventilator for COVID patients. Looks like anyone with these instructions can jailbreak their device now? https://airbreak.dev/
If this is not a typo, maybe there is hope for turning a s##tty BRICK into an auto!
"Warranty, my rump! Override stupid at all costs"

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by DreamDiver » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:59 am

zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
jnk... wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm
2022, maybe. But 2024? Not sure I can do this for four more years and keep what's left of what passes for my sanity.
"Intermittent distancing may be required into 2022 unless critical care capacity is increased substantially or a treatment or vaccine becomes available”, the Harvard researchers said in findings published Tuesday in the journal Science. . . . The study added that even in the case of “apparent elimination”, SARS-CoV-2 surveillance should still be maintained, as a resurgence in contagion may be possible as late as 2024.--https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928764
i am absolutely in the horns of a dilemma. i believe totally that coming out of shelter in place is going to cause a second wave of covid-19. i don't want me or my loved ones to die. nor actually mass deaths of anyone.
...
Stages of Societal Containment:

1. Sheltering in place - this what we have to do while we have no quick testing and cannot easily do quick-testing and contact tracing. It's a last resort. This is what they had to do in 1918 because they didn't have quick testing and contact tracing. There are studies that compare what happened to cities that sheltered in place for long after the first rush of the pandemic as compared with cities that allowed things to go back to "normal" after the first flush, and invariably the cities that did not remain sheltered in place for a longer period saw worse casualties than those that remained sheltered.

2. Quick testing and contact tracing. There are FDA-approved tests that can be administered in fifteen minutes that are about $5 a piece. They test both for whether you're currently contagious and whether you're already past contagion. Unfortunately they're difficult to acquire. We need a billion of these tests made available now for pennies instead of dollars. They look like a pregnancy test, but work with a drop of blood instead of a drop of pee. This kind of test could be administered to everyone in an area in days. Those who test as contagious could be immediately quarantined. Those who test as past contagion could be rated to go back to work. They can't infect anyone, so they're less likely to be a vector. Those who have not been infected but are deemed vulnerable could be sheltered in place and attended by those who have already past contagion.

This stage would allow for a moderate reopening of businesses because we would know who is infected, who's no longer contagious and who is vulnerable. We don't have that now. Without quick testing/contact tracing there is only random guessing and a virus with an RO of 2.3 to 2.5 and a mortality rate that's unacceptable.

This is the stage we could be at since we don't have a vaccine. We're not here yet because we don't have quick testing and contact tracing in place. It's non-existent. That's why we're still sheltering in place.

3. Vaccination
This would be most ideal. Everyone would simply be vaccinated, and none of us would have to worry about getting infected.

The interesting thing that nobody's talking about is that we almost had the same thing happen with SARS and MERS, but because we had a pandemic task force with immediate quarantines, contact tracing and testing (though not quick testing) applied with precision where it first showed up, those viruses were killed before they could get into the general population. The need for a vaccine never came up because it was deemed too expensive to make a vaccine for something that was already dead. Now I wish a vaccine had been created for SARS (SARS-Cov-1) because it's closely related to SARS-Cov-2 that causes Covid-19. We could have had a new vaccine up and running a lot faster. But we didn't. It makes me think they need to develop a vaccine for MERS because if a new MERS crops up, we could be better prepared.

We have a lot to learn from this virus.
1. We could have been better prepared. We weren't.
2. The economic effect of a virus with R0 > 1 and unacceptable mortality rate is overwhelming.
3. Sheltering in place has reduced pollution by a lot.
4. Many people are re-thinking the fast-paced life they had before the virus.
5. We should probably develop vaccines for new/novel viruses as soon as we become aware of them even if they don't get into the genpop.
6. Human population density, climate change, enivronmental destruction -- these are all things that are creating the perfect environment for zoonotic infections from bats, livestock, pets to humans. We're going to see more of this.
7. We need to pay better attention to our scientists when they raise alarm bells because Covid-19 and economic downturn are only the tip of the iceberg. The real concern is what happens in about 9 years with un-addressed climate change.

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:05 am

jnk... wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:50 am
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
horns of a dilemma
I think many of us can relate.
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
believe totally that coming out of shelter in place is going to cause a second wave of covid-19
Until there is an effective treatment or a vaccine, there is nothing much to do beyond keeping the medical systems working as best they can for other conditions, seems to me. For most of us, that means hunkering down to the full extent that we possibly can.
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
don't want me or my loved ones to die
We do what we can and don't do what we can't. We make the best decisions we can and don't hold ourselves responsible beyond that. That is one similarity between docs and non-docs at this point.
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
to make the construction industry an essential service again
Tricky stuff, that. It will happen one day. Maybe little at a time in rolling waves by location during a new abnormal.
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
someone's death from covid-19 to be on my conscience
I file your good decisions under "loving thing to do" rather than making it a guilt-based assessment. Just me.
zonker wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:10 pm
as my daughter said the other day, it's like we are cursed.
Sounds to me like having such an articulate and open daughter willing to express herself to you is quite the blessing, worth putting on a thankfulness/blessing list for regular review, maybe. It is also a blessing to live in an era in which the causes and potential slowing-down processes for fighting disease are understood enough for us to make some meaningful, rational, objective decisions. And it is a blessing that so many medical people are willing to be so self-sacrificing in doing what can be done with present understanding. Times of horrible disaster are times when we individually have the most opportunity to make positive differences in the lives of people around us. That's probably as far as I can go in commenting without going all religious about this.

My heart goes to out to those navigating stress and pain right now.

Meanwhile, to keep my post relatively on topic for the thread (which I do occasionally just to throw people off), ResMed has some informative FAQ statements on their perspective on vents and on modifications of CPAPs during COVID-19:
Converting in-market CPAPs to support more advanced modes of ventilation requires careful assessment to ensure risk is acceptable, and must meet labeling requirements to be set forth by the FDA. We’re currently exploring options for achieving this. Meanwhile, we’re taking every safe measure to maximize production of ResMed ventilators and bilevel devices that are more suited to the care of COVID-19 patients.--https://www.resmed.com/us/en/healthcare ... id-19.html
no, the thread topic contains covid-19 so i feel this IS on topic. there are things that i can say here, under my guise of zonker, that i can't say irl. so this is rather therapeutic, i guess.

not quite sure how i'm going to format this response. i don't like quoting this much back at someone. it just feels like a lot to slog through for others.

all of your points are valid. i really like your point about our daughter. she has been an enormous help through all of this and i try to remember to thank her whenever i can. she and her husband are going through the strains of this pandemic as well. they are fortunate in that they both work for the government, are deemed essential and can work from home. this has been the case for her for years, but her husband is just now learning the joys of working from the kitchen table! :lol:

so they are doing what they can while looking out for a pair of aging parents. and i'm really glad they do.

since i posted this yesterday, i've read of a letter from the various construction related industries who have come together to urge gov inslee to ease the restrictions on them and let them get back to work. then i saw inslee's speech yesterday where he sort of addressed this. from both sides of the discussion, i took away that they both are seriously looking at this. they are addressing ppe and distancing and so forth. inslee cautions that this won't happen right away.

so, i guess i'll just try to tamp down my impatience and keep focused on the greater good. thanks for "listening" and responding!

(hmmm, seems i kept this long form after all.)
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:14 am

DreamDiver wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:59 am


Stages of Societal Containment:
wow! did you just write that all off the cuff?

won't quote that all back because i've already used up all my byte allowance quoting that windbag jnk..! :lol:

but i want to assure you that i agree with the points you've raised. and i want to stress that gov inslee is in no hurry to open up washington state. he is very vocal in expressing the need for systems to be in place before he does anything. that includes testing, ppe, social distancing and so forth.

and i agree with him, straight up. that doesn't prevent me from whining about my current situation. even though where we have landed, in this cottage, is terrific. i am very aware that i'm privileged. and that i was lucky to be here when this hit.

i just wish this could've happened next year and not now.

<whine>
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by jimbud » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:21 am

https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-cit ... udy-argues

MIT ground breaking study!

Who would have ever put this 2+2 together. :shock:

JPB

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by jnk... » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:34 am

zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:14 am
i'll just try to tamp down my impatience
That's what I'm trying to do, too. But it ain't easy. And in the case of the present situation with the virus, I think impatience, within reason, is a positive response, since it is impatience to get on with life instead of keeping it on pause.

In my penny-to-two-cent opinion, the worldwide economy is going to end up in a very different place, and that may have many profound effects on a lot of local construction at every level with supplies, approaches, priorities, and other economic realities.

Authorities may try to keep a positive spin to keep everyone's attention and everyone's hopes up--and hey miracles can happen medically any day--but without a medical grip on things, two years and more is not a temporary blip and bump in the road.

With construction, it could easily get to the point at which if it ain't subsidized, it ain't really practical. Saying so out loud in a meeting of people in the present could cause panic, though, so keeping the masses calm as the economists and scientists nod knowingly and quietly at one another in the back row as the masses get calmed from the podium is where most economically-driven industry associations are, I believe, in order to pretend like they are relevant as they try to keep themselves from shutting themselves down entirely for a few years once the new normal presents itself.
-Jeff (AS10/P30i)

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by DreamDiver » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:39 am

zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:14 am
wow! did you just write that all off the cuff?
...
won't quote that all back because i've already used up all my byte allowance quoting that windbag jnk..! :lol:
...
but i want to assure you that i agree with the points you've raised. and i want to stress that gov inslee is in no hurry to open up washington state...
<whine>
Yes. And apologies for being a windbag.
Glad you landed softly, and glad you realize how important what we're doing is.
Be safe out there!

And it's good you're friends with jnk. :D

Chris

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:42 am

DreamDiver wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:39 am
zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:14 am
wow! did you just write that all off the cuff?
...
won't quote that all back because i've already used up all my byte allowance quoting that windbag jnk..! :lol:
...
but i want to assure you that i agree with the points you've raised. and i want to stress that gov inslee is in no hurry to open up washington state...
<whine>
Yes. And apologies for being a windbag.
Glad you landed softly, and glad you realize how important what we're doing is.
Be safe out there!

And it's good you're friends with jnk. :D

Chris
(don't tell him but jnk... is my bitter enemy. i talk nice to him to lull him into a false sense of security)
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by DreamDiver » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:53 am

zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:42 am
(don't tell him but jnk... is my bitter enemy. i talk nice to him to lull him into a false sense of security)
I won't tell a soul...
Image

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:55 am

DreamDiver wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:53 am
zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:42 am
(don't tell him but jnk... is my bitter enemy. i talk nice to him to lull him into a false sense of security)
I won't tell a soul...
Image
though thousand wouldn't....
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by jnk... » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:14 pm

zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:42 am
to lull him into a false sense of security
It's working. I feel completely secure.

Well, in a Spy vs. Spy sort of way, anyway.

I mean, this is an Internet forum, so the only universally applicable rule book is Chapter XIII of The Art of War.
-Jeff (AS10/P30i)

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:37 pm

jnk... wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:14 pm
zonker wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:42 am
to lull him into a false sense of security
It's working. I feel completely secure.

Well, in a Spy vs. Spy sort of way, anyway.

I mean, this is an Internet forum, so the only universally applicable rule book is Chapter XIII of The Art of War.
Spy vs Spy.jpeg
though i WAS thinking more along the lines of boris and natasha actually.
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by MarylandCPAPer2 » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:18 am

I think this article fits here:
https://www.valuewalk.com/2020/04/sleep ... ronavirus/

CPAP Machines Fighting COVID-19, As We Suggested
Posted By: JOHN F. BANZHAF Apr 18, 2020, 9:24 pm

Although hospital ventilators were initially the standard treatment for COVID-19 patients experiencing breathing difficulties, doctors are now increasingly first trying CPAP and similar breathing machines normally used by those with sleep apnea. In this case, CPAPs with added oxygen are used to avoid putting patients on ventilators from which most eventually die, notes professor John Banzhaf, an MIT-educated engineer and inventor who is now a law professor.

Banzhaf was one of the first to suggest and aggressively publicize using CPAP machines – sometimes called a “poor man’s ventilator” – in situations of only moderate respiratory distress where a patient might not require the full power and sophistication of a hospital-type ventilator, especially since the latter involves very serious risks, and is a treatment from which many COVID-19 victims never recover.

His suggestion received a major boost when the Food and Drug Administration [FDA] not only recommended the technique but made it legal by a ruling dated March 22.

In a guidance document issued on that date, the agency said: “Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP), auto-CPAP, and bilevel positive airway pressure (BiPAP or BPAP) machines typically used for treatment of sleep apnea (either in the home or facility setting) may be used to support patients with respiratory insufficiency provided appropriate monitoring (as available) and patient condition.”

Sleep apnea patients to the rescue

The Australian counterpart of the FDA issued a similar ruling shortly thereafter, and doctors treating COVID-19 experimented with the devices, occasionally adding oxygen and/or making modifications.

This addition to the arsenal of weapons against the deadly virus is very important, says Banzhaf, because:

Ventilators are in short supply while there are millions of existing CPAP machines;
Hospitals are able to buy more CPAPs (at about $850) than ventilators ($25-50K), especially since there is little use for the latter once peak demand ceases;
People are readily donating their machines which are no longer needed; something Banzhaf originally suggested in a TV interview.

The New York Times has just reported that “Doctors at North Shore University Hospital on Long Island have been using machines designed for people with sleep apnea to keep scores of coronavirus patients breathing,” and that such innovations “may have helped stave off the dire ventilator shortages and rationing that some had feared but have not come to pass.”

The report also points out that “many hospitals are using them to increase oxygen levels without resorting to intubation. The devices, doctors say, have been especially helpful for coronavirus patients with moderately impaired lung function.”

Of all the tools for fighting the deadly virus which have come out of universities, this may be one of the most useful. It is rather clearly one of the most unusual, since Banzhaf isn’t a medical person, nor even a scientist and engineer.

Rather, he is an interdisciplinary academic figure who has made his mark in fields as varied as public health (“The Man Behind The Ban On Cigarette Commercials”); computer science, game theory, and political science (the “Banzhaf Index”); and public interest litigation (“a Driving Force Behind the Lawsuits That Have Cost Tobacco Companies Billions of Dollars”).

JOHN F. BANZHAF
John F. Banzhaf is an American public interest lawyer, legal activist and law professor at George Washington University Law School. He is the founder of an antismoking advocacy group, Action on Smoking and Health.
Started CPAP 12/09. Currently use (since 2015) AirSense 10 AutoSet FOR HER.APAP Range: 11-20, AirFit P10 mask. Started home oxygen at 2L on 8/7/20.
Previously (2010 to 2015) APAP, Pressure 10-16. PR System One.. Was Maryland CPAPer 12/09 to 4/20.

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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by fasttimes » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:29 am

I’m far too busy to read through all of these messages. The bottom line is I have two older working CPAPS (might even be BIPAP) that I’m not using. If they can be used during this crisis, how can I see they get into the hands of those that will see them put to good use? This is a straight up donation. I’m not looking for any renumeration whatsoever, even for shipping costs.

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zonker
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Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please

Post by zonker » Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:13 pm

ladies, dig out your husband's insurance policies!

'Men are at a huge disadvantage' — who is getting hit hardest by COVID-19 and why'

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/apr-18- ... -1.5534506
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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