OT: Time out and/or Duke it out thread

[Pugsy]

Grace...the crickets thing was an attempt at a gentle reminder that the way the thread was going wasn't in a good direction and an attempt to stop ugly behavior...it was before your time.
The problem was no one heard the crickets or cared and a lot of the newbies didn't realize that we were chastizing someone for poor behavior...so they thought no one cared about the flame war going on in their thread and that war wasn't about anything in particular except name calling....and they think we are all a bunch of bullies because we allow that sort of behavior.

Hence this thread...it's not a hint..it's a 2 X 4 up the side of the head when things get real ugly in a thread.
It's not for use when people just disagree...it's for when people disagree in an ugly manner and name calling starts and more time is spent in name calling than in educational responses.
Will it stop the flame wars...don't know (doubt it) but at least the person in the thread with the question not getting answered because of the name calling will know that there are people on this forum who find that sort of behavior unacceptable and we aren't all like that.

We can't change people...only they can do that if they want to but we can let it be known in a polite way that it's not acceptable and not everyone here is okay with that kind of talk.

[SleepyEyes21]

It's not exactly so. Not long ago Pugsy used my advanced age to belittle me when I posted that she had almost zero knowledge in biology and or medicine. I could dig out those posts from 4 years ago.

Well...

I am just like everyone else..poke me often enough and I will poke back.

And yes...if someone did it now...I would poke back but what I won't do is make a dozen posts in one thread poking back at one person. I will usually do one well thought out return poke and then I am done.

Hi Pugsy, can you clarify some things for me please? I thought you stated in an earlier post that 'two wrongs don't make a right?' Are you saying you believe it is okay to poke back if someone pokes you enough? How much is enough for you, and what if that amount is not enough or is way too much for someone else? Then what should they do?

Also, are you trying to say you believe you are not 'as guilty' of the same problem because 'you usually do one well-thought out return poke and then you are done'? How is such a thing measured and who is the designated measurer of that?

Thank you for making my posts in another thread the example of what you are referring to as far as threads that should be moved to this one. I think my posts that you refer to are excellent examples that show other forum members how to respond to bullies in the forum in a more mature manner, and not stoop to their level of harassment, cursing, and other vile/ vicious/ negative behaviors.

I do like the idea of having a separate OT thread for Time Out/ Duke It Out, and I think it's a great step in the right direction for the good of the forum. Hey- it would have been a helpful idea if you had used the opportunity today to respond to my posts in the other thread with a link to this thread (as you stated in an earlier post that you would) so I could have posted here, and you could have modeled to others how this is done in a nice way

Would you be so kind as to post instructions for all of us on how to post a link to this thread when suggesting it to other members? Thank you!

[palerider]

Pugsy and Avi were acting like adults and actually joking around. You couldn't stand that, could ya PR. You'd much rather see people attack each other. That's who you are PR, and my hope is that everyone here finally sees that!

I am going to respectfully take issue with what you said. I wasn't going to respond but it bothers me because I can't see where anything PR said was meant to provoke me or Avi attack each other...and the font nut thing...he's dead on about that one. That nut job doesn't need any provoking to stir up shit.
What he said was true and wasn't said in an insulting manner that I could see. He pretty much stated the facts as they are. How you come up with his trying to stir up shit is beyond me.

it seems pretty clear who's actually trying to stir up shit, not that I care anymore... (see name quoted above )

*goes back to polishing the tarnish off the halo*

[palerider]

Grace...the crickets thing was an attempt at a gentle reminder that the way the thread was going wasn't in a good direction and an attempt to stop ugly behavior...it was before your time.
The problem was no one heard the crickets or cared and a lot of the newbies didn't realize that we were chastizing someone for poor behavior...so they thought no one cared about the flame war going on in their thread and that war wasn't about anything in particular except name calling....and they think we are all a bunch of bullies because we allow that sort of behavior.

iirc, the 'crickets' was originally suggested as a reminder to the attacked person not to respond to the attacker... just 'turn the other cheek', it was immediately perverted into another tool for those that like to pretend they're holier than thou to use to beat on people they didn't like...

so it went from "just ignore them, don't feed the troll" to "SHUT UP!" and thus died an unfortunate death.

[Lucyhere]

Pugsy and Avi were acting like adults and actually joking around. You couldn't stand that, could ya PR. You'd much rather see people attack each other. That's who you are PR, and my hope is that everyone here finally sees that!

I am going to respectfully take issue with what you said. I wasn't going to respond but it bothers me because I can't see where anything PR said was meant to provoke me or Avi attack each other...and the font nut thing...he's dead on about that one. That nut job doesn't need any provoking to stir up shit.
What he said was true and wasn't said in an insulting manner that I could see. He pretty much stated the facts as they are. How you come up with his trying to stir up shit is beyond me.

I know you really believe that PR is the way you see him and want all the rest of us to see him like you do but it's not going to happen. You will get a few to agree with you but the majority of us know different.
Yeah...he can be a dick sometimes but I don't know many of us here who hasn't been a dick ourselves one time or another. I know I have and admit it.

It's simply, Pugsy. You and Avi were starting to act like adults and joke around. There was NO need for PR to stick his two cents in and say what he did. No need at all!

The "nut job"... I didn't even know what PR was talking about, nor did I care. But, now that I know, what was the point of sticking the "nut job" in with you and Avi? There was no point. PR wrote a post that there was no need for... you and Avi were doing just fine without his 2 cents.

[robysue]

Would you be so kind as to post instructions for all of us on how to post a link to this thread when suggesting it to other members? Thank you!

Just paste the url into your reply like this: viewtopic/t114176/OT-Time-out-andor-Duk ... hread.html

The forum software will recognize it as a live link and anybody clicking on it will be redirected to this thread.

[Grace~~~]

font of uselessness is great

better than fontnutjobtroll or nutjob
when font means font it's really good ~~~*I* think.

...though even font as 'fount' (receptacle?) of uselessness is funny

FUD ... as an acronym I do not know
...but still just as a SOUND to say in your reading head voice is funny
onomatopoeia? I can see that ...

BOTH are totally new to me

It's weird how anything can be used as even an endearment with the right attitude?

There's hopefully someone in all our lives that can call us a 'font of uselessness' and it makes us smile and want them to *dip in then*?

I got your uselessness, ya know?

(probably not )

~~~help crickets~~~

[Pugsy]

Would you be so kind as to post instructions for all of us on how to post a link to this thread when suggesting it to other members? Thank you!

Save this link somewhere and insert it in a post where you see that maybe the ugliness has got out of hand.
I am not saying just because someone disagrees with someone...what I am talking about is when there's name calling and stuff like that and all they are doing is name calling and poking or whatever. When all educational material is absent from the comments and it's obvious there is a fight going on.
posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=114176#postingbox

can you clarify some things for me please? I thought you stated in an earlier post that 'two wrongs don't make a right?' Are you saying you believe it is okay to poke back if someone pokes you enough? How much is enough for you, and what if that amount is not enough or is way too much for someone else? Then what should they do?

Not for me to say...see above...are there multiple posts with nothing but poking and name calling and no educational material offered.???

If you call me troll...an idiot..or otherwise say something blatantly nasty... if I return in kind does that make it right or okay for either of us to act like children? We would both be wrong to do that....that's where 2 wrongs don't make a right come from.
As for how much poking is too much...dunno..when more time is spent attacking the messenger and not the message or god forbid the entire message gets tossed out the door....when there's multiple pokes going on and it's obvious the thread has got hijacked. One poke doesn't do it...one get lost if people ignore it...but when you have a 1/3 of the posts in a thread have nothing to do with original question...it's gone too far.

Also, are you trying to say you believe you are not 'as guilty' of the same problem because 'you usually do one well-thought out return poke and then you are done'? How is such a thing measured and who is the designated measurer of that?

Nope..never said I wasn't guilty of being a dick....I admit it freely..I can be a real big dick if I get really pissed off..and yes I often get one little dig in but I don't come back and repeat the same dig 6 or 7 times every time I get called a dick by the person I was digging. I usually try to get my one dig in and try to avoid name calling if at all possible and certainly I don't call them what I am probably thinking in and I am done then usually that person goes on the Foe list and I never read anything they ever write in response....I will usually try to apologize to the OP in the thread for my bad behavior in advance.

Who is the measurer....you are.. you are the adult. If this is lost on you I can't explain it.

Thank you for making my posts in another thread the example of what you are referring to as far as threads that should be moved to this one. I think my posts that you refer to are excellent examples that show other forum members how to respond to bullies in the forum in a more mature manner, and not stoop to their level of harassment, cursing, and other vile/ vicious/ negative behaviors.

You needed 2 posts to point out that there was a flame war that I am pretty sure most of us recognized and you think that none of us know how to deal with them and need to be told how to respond..not once but twice??
And nowhere a mention about the problem the OP had?
I didn't blast your posts...I only mentioned that they were part of the several others that had no educational material in it and when I say educational material I mean educational in relation to the original question or problem presented at the beginning of the thread.
My apologies for not making it clear what I am referring to when I say educational material..

I will repeat again...this thread is for when the "discussions" change from being civil to not civil...when things get rude and there's repeated bantering back and forth and name calling and direct personal insults.
We all know when disagreements turn ugly...it's no big secret and isn't rocket science. We all know when the line gets crossed from a slight poke to a full fist up the side of the head.
For when a newbie comes to their thread and can't find the answer to their question or problem because there's so much shit slinging and that includes the posts pointing out the shit slinging. Maybe I am different but I can usually spot the bullies and shit slinging without it being pointed out to me.
It's our way of showing the person who is lost in the flame war that not everyone acts like that here.

I just went back and again read your two posts in the thread in question.
I saw you pointing out some people you feel are well known bullies. You mention one of them has zero moral character (can you explain how you come to know that about him)....he may be an ass often but I don't have clue about his moral character..
I didn't see anything on how to deal with the people you named as bullies or forum bullies in general and you weren't responding to the OP in the thread..you were responding to a couple of participants in the flame war ugliness...
Apparently taking side of one and poking at the other which is fine...I don't care who you side with.
I saw nothing about how to deal with forum bullies at all.
I did see where you mentioned that there are more good people here than bullies.

To be clear...your type of response in that thread isn't something that I would give you a link to this thread over.
Now I don't know about someone else...you might catch them on a bad day or something.
You stated your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it and other than calling some people bullies you weren't particularly nasty to them or anything like that. A little poke at PR about the mirror but that's it.
I really didn't have a problem with what you said...but it is included in the number of posts that isn't particularly helpful to the OP in that thread in terms of education or thoughts or discussion as to his original problem.
That's okay too...most of the threads here never stay totally on topic anyway.

I haven't decided how I will word things when I see a thread totally going down the tubes...I won't do or say anything until things get really bad ...and I think most of us know when that happens and it isn't with the first couple of pokes unless profanity is used.

I am going to try to compose something along the lines of

"My apologies to the OP in the thread for the direction it has taken especially if you haven't received all the help you need. This sort of behavior the majority of the forum members don't find acceptable and for that reason I am asking the participants to take their fighting somewhere else and if you can't find a place....insert my link to this thread."

Nicely asking the participants to take the fight elsewhere and let the OP know that this sort of behavior is frowned upon so that they don't think we are all nothing but bar room brawlers.

I am NOT going to call the participants names of any sort ...like bully, troll, dickhead..nothing like that.
When we do that we become part of the problem and not the solution.
I guarantee you that anyone reading the thread already knows that so and so is being a dick. No need for me to point it out again and I don't want to have any more poking going on because I am wanting it to stop and for me to call someone a name (even though I am thinking it) then I am doing the very thing I want to stop and for me that defeats my purpose.

You can handle it anyway you wish but I would hope that you will find a way to convey displeasure with how someone is acting without stooping to name calling. Trust me...we already know what they are and there's no need to poke them again just because you can.

Now sometimes you are going to run into someone whose just really going to be a problem...we've had a few in the past but none since you have been here that I can think of.
And I know that some people think PR is a huge problem but we have had some who make PR look like a saint.
I think the guy with the font fetish may be a new really big problem. Remains to be seen but I don't have a good feeling about that one. I have already been a dick where he is concerned..I admit it freely but I don't think you will find anyone but his alter ego who disagrees with me.

So no..I am not perfect...never said I was. Never will be...but I care about the overall image of this forum and the members and I would respectfully hope that we can self moderate and keep the ugliness to a minimum so that it isn't out there so much that all the newbies see is the ugliness.
That's my main concern...how newbies see this forum and when I have people send me a private message asking for help and apologizing for sending a PM because they were afraid to post on the forum...our image here sucks. All they see is the ugly and don't see the good people we have here.

We are going to have the bullies...it's part of forum life but we don't have to become a bully ourselves as a way of dealing with them. We have to find some other way or this forum will die a slow and painful death because we run off newbies...and the only people left will be the old timers like me who have learned to survive the ugly or the bullies who relish in being the cause of the ugly.

[SleepyEyes21]

Would you be so kind as to post instructions for all of us on how to post a link to this thread when suggesting it to other members? Thank you!

Just paste the url into your reply like this: viewtopic/t114176/OT-Time-out-andor-Duk ... hread.html

The forum software will recognize it as a live link and anybody clicking on it will be redirected to this thread.

Thanks so much for your help, RobySue

Have a nice weekend and Happy Halloween

[Stormynights]

There was a time that I thought PR was a hateful person until I noticed how kind he could be when trying to offer help to someone in need. There have been others here that have been the same way. Once I had a headache and I was typing a reply when my husband walked in and started talking to me. What I ended up saying was not at all what I meant and a lady here gave me a prompt scolding. I was flabbergasted until I went back and read what I had typed. I was grateful to her for correcting me. I had a chance to apologize before things got worse. We all make mistakes but a little consideration goes a long way. Mostly I think a lot of us just needs to grow up.

[Hang Fire]

I started my first post with an observation and a joke ...

Well, my Little Angel, let's fact-check that one.




OK, you actually started your very first post with an insult to unnamed forum members:

Such ornery people on this forum. ....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111472&p=1099964#p1099964

[exiii]

I started my first post with an observation and a joke ...

Well, my Little Angel, let's fact-check that one.




OK, you actually started your very first post with an insult to unnamed forum members:

Such ornery people on this forum. ....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111472&p=1099964#p1099964

That was the observation. The joke was that sleep deprivation was the cause. Seems dead on accurate as much now as then.

[Pugsy]

That was the observation. The joke was that sleep deprivation was the cause. Seems dead on accurate as much now as then.

I actually got the joke when it was first posted and really didn't think much about it.
And there are a bunch of "ornery" people here and some of them just like to be ornery and we can't blame it on bad sleep.

[Stormynights]

I remember putting my children in time out to try to argue by themselves. They learned that it takes two to argue.

[Pugsy]

It has come to my attention that some people think that because PR is counted among my friends that I don't see him as a bully sometimes. That is wrong...when he is a smart ass/bully/jerk...I see it clearly...I am not blind and I certainly don't condone it.
When he prefaces a comment with a derogatory comment...I see it and I cringe...and I already talked about that above.
When he directly attacks someone..I cringe and when he gets in a flame war...I am really sad because I know he is a better person than that.

I am also not blind to the fact that it takes 2 or more people to have a flame war...it can't happen with just one person all by themselves being a jerk/bully/asshole/or whatever.

This thread isn't about one liners where someone gets a little dig in or I suppose one big dig...it's about taking those digs and letting them blow up into a flame war and the helping part of the thread is a casualty.
One or two snide remarks isn't a flame war...full blown direct attacks where the shit slinging is the only focus of the of the response..those are flame wars. When it's obviously the original problem is no longer the focus off attention and the thread is badly hijacked.