Canadians Being Truthful About Socialistic Medical Care

hegel wrote:Sleepybob: yes, according to the IRS 50% who file owe no federal taxes: because they've already paid them through their automatic pay check deductions. I didn't "owe" the IRS either when I FILED my taxes: the IRS owed me, because I'd overpaid during the course of the year through my paycheck deductions. Unemployment is high in the U.S., but it's not 50%.

Total amateur ignorance. Listen to Bob and you might learn some basics.

hegel wrote:Sleepybob: yes, according to the IRS 50% who file owe no federal taxes: because they've already paid them through their automatic pay check deductions. I didn't "owe" the IRS either when I FILED my taxes: the IRS owed me, because I'd overpaid during the course of the year through my paycheck deductions. Unemployment is high in the U.S., but it's not 50%.

He wasn't talking about owing or not owing at the end of the year to complete the tax filing. But the whole net amount. As in. a person pays $1200 in income tax during the year, but gets the full amount refunded, or even more.


There are many ways to end up not paying federal income tax. It's about total income as well as exemptions and credits. People who are unemployed, maybe retired or disabled, often make so little income that they don't pay federal income tax.

If you lose your job and thus only work part of the year, you may get all your previously paid income tax back because they count your income for the whole year, and the amount taken from your paycheck was based on you having income all year. So, a person can pay it, but end up getting the whole thing back.

Many people qualify for the earned income credit and also child credits. So, some people, depending on those credits and their income, will end up getting a refund larger than what they paid over the year.


Unfortunately, because of the bad economy, there are a lot more people dealing with job losses, fewer hours, etc, so their income is lower than in previous years. So, the percentage of people not paying federal income tax has gone up. In 2011, it was 46%. Hopefully, the numbers will start to improve, but so far it doesn't seem to be.

zoocrewphoto wrote:

hegel wrote:Sleepybob: yes, according to the IRS 50% who file owe no federal taxes: because they've already paid them through their automatic pay check deductions. I didn't "owe" the IRS either when I FILED my taxes: the IRS owed me, because I'd overpaid during the course of the year through my paycheck deductions. Unemployment is high in the U.S., but it's not 50%.

He wasn't talking about owing or not owing at the end of the year to complete the tax filing. But the whole net amount. As in. a person pays $1200 in income tax during the year, but gets the full amount refunded, or even more.


There are many ways to end up not paying federal income tax. It's about total income as well as exemptions and credits. People who are unemployed, maybe retired or disabled, often make so little income that they don't pay federal income tax.

If you lose your job and thus only work part of the year, you may get all your previously paid income tax back because they count your income for the whole year, and the amount taken from your paycheck was based on you having income all year. So, a person can pay it, but end up getting the whole thing back.

Many people qualify for the earned income credit and also child credits. So, some people, depending on those credits and their income, will end up getting a refund larger than what they paid over the year.


Unfortunately, because of the bad economy, there are a lot more people dealing with job losses, fewer hours, etc, so their income is lower than in previous years. So, the percentage of people not paying federal income tax has gone up. In 2011, it was 46%. Hopefully, the numbers will start to improve, but so far it doesn't seem to be.

Zoo Crew, thank you for pointing that out. As I was reading these posts yesterday, I got so frustrated that this situation was being portrayed inaccurately as a bunch of freeloaders taking from the government. And these folks pay other taxes which take a big bite out of their income.

And by the way, there are plenty of corporations that didn't pay taxes either as an FYI.

49er

Forum rat libs have gotten totally out of control since I was last here.

But anyway, wanted to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! to all you fellow souls. You rock!

So Well wrote:Forum rat libs have gotten totally out of control since I was last here.

But anyway, wanted to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! to all you fellow souls. You rock!

It wasn't the libs that started this but some con turd blasting another country's system of health care to try and score points. Happy solstice and Saturnalia.

"Since 1992, Sweden has, across the board, seen consistent government cutbacks while increasing restrictions on welfare policies, deregulating markets, and privatizing former government monopolies. The country has instituted an overall new incentive structure in society making it more favorable to work. The national debt tumbled from almost 80 percent of GDP in 1995 to only 35 percent in 2010.

In other words, Sweden successfully rolled back its unsustainable but world-renowned welfare state."

Full article - http://www.mises.org/daily/6619/How-Gov ... Depression

(Tip of my hat to SleepyBobR)

So Well wrote:Forum rat libs have gotten totally out of control since I was last here.

But anyway, wanted to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! to all you fellow souls. You rock!

Good to find you in the holiday spirit. Merry Christmas to you too from me and my irrepressible fellow rat libs.

Happy Solstice and Saturnalia? Those are not the holidays being celebrated today. Those are pagan, non Christian holidays.

Merry Christmas!!!

Eric

BlackSpinner wrote:

So Well wrote:Forum rat libs have gotten totally out of control since I was last here.

But anyway, wanted to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! to all you fellow souls. You rock!

It wasn't the libs that started this but some con turd blasting another country's system of health care to try and score points. Happy solstice and Saturnalia.

SuddenlyWornOut45 wrote:Happy Solstice and Saturnalia? Those are not the holidays being celebrated today. Those are pagan, non Christian holidays.

Merry Christmas!!!

I have lots of friends who celebrate them. May the Yule Father bring you relief and open your eyes to the gods and goddess of your ancestors who are watching over you.

SleepyBobR wrote:Romney's comments clearly disabled his campaign but, to be fair, is there really no problem when the number of people in the US who don't pay any federal income tax is almost 50% and keeps growing?

There is a problem, but think about it a little more deeply. If the number is in fact 50%, or even if it's only 30%, shouldn't that tell you something is wrong with the income levels of the people at the lower end of the earnings scale? If that many people can't earn enough money to get above the safety net levels built into the income tax program, there is a problem out there. And it isn't by far all laziness and freeloading, although that is a component.

A huge and growing dependent class may be good for the Democrats but it can't be good for the country. Is there anyone here who really doesn't believe that generous entitlements can discourage initiative and are ultimately harmful to some people? People on social assistance lose a dollar of welfare assistance for every dollar earned discouraging them from taking the only jobs that may be available to them because they would be working for nothing. People should always come out ahead after a days work. The tax system should be used to ensure that work is always financially rewarding, encouraging people to try to become independent. No country on Earth spends more money than the US on social programs of all kinds but, 50 years after LBJ's War on Poverty, there has emerged a culture of dependency or partial dependency in the US that simply didn't exist before. I don't have the solution but I suspect it won't be to just continue increasing entitlement spending while vilifying business and capital and driving out the real investments needed to create jobs, wealth and prosperity for all.

Did you ever think about the idea that maybe capitalism is what's driving us toward socialism? The capitalist ideal is for the business owner to get as much for himself as possible. He does that by paying his workers and suppliers the absolute minimum he can get away with. It's happening in this country as income distribution is favoring more and more those at the top of the economic ladder. All we need to do in this country is adjust the income structure of the business world to better favor the real producers, the ones doing the daily grunt work in the factories and stores, and the push for income redistribution would soften. To try to argue that low wage jobs are mostly taken by high school students and unskilled workers is a red herring. There are millions of skilled and semi-skilled jobs in this country that pay a wage insufficient to live adequately.

It's going to be interesting to watch both parties in the next few years try to create more jobs. To a great extent it can't be done. There are more workers available than the supply of physical resources can support. The productivity of workers has risen to the point where fewer workers are needed to produce all the goods and services needed to support the American population. Add in global labor supply and we have a real imbalance between the potential human resources available to produce goods and services, the supply of physical resources world wide, and the amount needed to support human existence.

So Well wrote:"Since 1992, Sweden has, across the board, seen consistent government cutbacks while increasing restrictions on welfare policies, deregulating markets, and privatizing former government monopolies. The country has instituted an overall new incentive structure in society making it more favorable to work. The national debt tumbled from almost 80 percent of GDP in 1995 to only 35 percent in 2010.

In other words, Sweden successfully rolled back its unsustainable but world-renowned welfare state."

Full article - http://www.mises.org/daily/6619/How-Gov ... Depression

(Tip of my hat to SleepyBobR)

Interesting article, but as one of the comments on that page notes, there is a serious lack in documenting cause and effect. He does say it is a work in progress so maybe we'll see more later.

The capitalist ideal is for the business owner to get as much for himself as possible. He does that by paying his workers and suppliers the absolute minimum he can get away with.

WTH iddmatnboy???

Capitalism is about markets and voluntary exchange. Absent government interference the capitalist is under tremendous pressure to produce products that consumers want and to sell products at prices low enough that consumers will voluntarily buy them.

You live a strange life I take it?

And what is wrong with that? That is the way its always been. Do you think businesses are a charity or something? The thing is, ANYBODY who has a strong work ethic and some sort of marketable skill to sell or product to manufacture to sell, can be their own business owner. YOU can be a business owner, should you choose to be one.

Its all about getting off your ass and doing stuff. And not having this dependent mentality so many Americans have now. Americans used to be a lot more DIY and a lot more hands on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a business owner trying to get as much for himself as possible, as long as the business owner does it legally. Our legal system has put in place certain basic laws to prevent people from being abused. Slavery, for example, is outlawed in the USA. We have a minimum wage in this country. There is OSHA to prevent workplace accidents and illnesses (although I personally think OSHA does a poor job many times at their job).

I want to know why you think it is so wrong for someone who has taken the big risk and developed the big kahonahs to go into business for themselves, to also want to make as much money for themselves as is possible? Why?

Eric

idamtnboy wrote:[quote="SleepyBobR"
Did you ever think about the idea that maybe capitalism is what's driving us toward socialism? The capitalist ideal is for the business owner to get as much for himself as possible. He does that by paying his workers and suppliers the absolute minimum he can get away with. I

The United States hasn't had real capitalism for over 100 years. Much of what's left is crony capitalism, a distorted caricature of the real thing and a creature of big government. And that same big self-serving government ensures that what's left of real free markets gets the blame for all the problems. Vilifying business may make some people feel good but it won't keep the lights on or put food on the table.The road to serfdom has been well traveled in the 20th century. One can only marvel at how far along that road the great United States has traveled in the 21st.

And it's not about blaming poor people. Statist government is to blame. It is up to the people to get rid of it.

Eric (and friends) - Through no fault of their own, people are NOT created equal, let alone are they born into similar circumstances. And very much of the time they simply, really, do not have the resources or means to advance as you'd like them to. Whether it's a question of plain poverty, health - both physical and mental, lack of good educational venues, etc. etc. the only thing obvious - and it holds true for all of the animal world as well - is that the fittest survive, and the rest scramble to catch up. But if you believe that gives you the freedom to damn them/us to hell (or its earthly equivalent), or that it makes you superior - shall I call you an ubermensch? - you are 1000% wrong! And you apparently do believe in some god - what happened to mercy and kindness and loving your brother and helping him up? And don't talk about minimum wage - it may work for a teenager living at home, but does nothing at all for a family - just ask Wal-Mart employees about that. I'm sure Mr. Capitalism Buffett could spout some double-talk to excuse what he's doing.

Anything else I could say would not be printable here, so won't say any more.