OT: a-better-way-to-test-for-sleep-apnea

mollete wrote:However, they claim their Sleep Efficiency has dropped somewhat.

OTOH, CPAP compliance is 100%.

mollete wrote:

mollete wrote:However, they claim their Sleep Efficiency has dropped somewhat.

OTOH, CPAP compliance is 100%.

Mollete,

You are not being a troll, are you?

Come on now, why does someone with your great expertise and credentials have the need to do this?

49er

123.Shawn T.W. wrote:But ... will it measure brain waves to know if your asleep or not? What stage?

Still seems like it would need to attached toy your head, so the patient could move around, turn over ...

The Chinese have done an amazing job producing affordable wireless pulse oximeters. They have always worked well for me.

They are becoming quite sophisticated in their use and production of technology.

So what if they made a little thermal camera sensing unit that could be added to something looking like a headset microphone on my proposed wireless EEG sensor unit (Head Band in previous post). Might as well have audio available as well and do some Phonospirometry.

They will probably do this and make the greedy, slow, unimaginative doctors in America look like what they are.

Todzo wrote:

123.Shawn T.W. wrote:But ... will it measure brain waves to know if your asleep or not? What stage?

Still seems like it would need to attached toy your head, so the patient could move around, turn over ...

The Chinese have done an amazing job producing affordable wireless pulse oximeters. They have always worked well for me.

They are becoming quite sophisticated in their use and production of technology.

So what if they made a little thermal camera sensing unit that could be added to something looking like a headset microphone on my proposed wireless EEG sensor unit (Head Band in previous post). Might as well have audio available as well and do some Phonospirometry.

They will probably do this and make the greedy, slow, unimaginative doctors in America look like what they are.

Todzo,

What does the cost look like as you know that is a big time issue? Even if changes were made, I fear insurance companies might resist even more in paying for full scale studies.

49er

mollete wrote:... I just found a Sleep Center that's using this technology, employing Army surplus equipment (and personnel):

Oh-oh!!

Here comes one of those filthy pig apneas now!!



Stand back!! This could get messy!!

Whoa, bonus!!

AHI = 0.0, and breakfast to boot!!

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

123.Shawn T.W. wrote:But ... will it measure brain waves to know if your asleep or not? What stage?

Still seems like it would need to attached toy your head, so the patient could move around, turn over ...

The Chinese have done an amazing job producing affordable wireless pulse oximeters. They have always worked well for me.

They are becoming quite sophisticated in their use and production of technology.

So what if they made a little thermal camera sensing unit that could be added to something looking like a headset microphone on my proposed wireless EEG sensor unit (Head Band in previous post). Might as well have audio available as well and do some Phonospirometry.

They will probably do this and make the greedy, slow, unimaginative doctors in America look like what they are.

Todzo,

What does the cost look like as you know that is a big time issue? Even if changes were made, I fear insurance companies might resist even more in paying for full scale studies.

49er

The politics here currently make such change impossible - which is why we need to change that!!!

It is also why I think the Chinese are more likely to do this than we are.

Probably it is time for us all to study some Pinyin!

Todzo wrote:

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

123.Shawn T.W. wrote:But ... will it measure brain waves to know if your asleep or not? What stage?

Still seems like it would need to attached toy your head, so the patient could move around, turn over ...

The Chinese have done an amazing job producing affordable wireless pulse oximeters. They have always worked well for me.

They are becoming quite sophisticated in their use and production of technology.

So what if they made a little thermal camera sensing unit that could be added to something looking like a headset microphone on my proposed wireless EEG sensor unit (Head Band in previous post). Might as well have audio available as well and do some Phonospirometry.

They will probably do this and make the greedy, slow, unimaginative doctors in America look like what they are.

Todzo,

What does the cost look like as you know that is a big time issue? Even if changes were made, I fear insurance companies might resist even more in paying for full scale studies.

49er

The politics here currently make such change impossible - which is why we need to change that!!!

It is also why I think the Chinese are more likely to do this than we are.

Probably it is time for us all to study some Pinyin!

Not sure what you are talking regarding changing politics. Insurance companies will always be part of the equation no matter who is in power so you can't simply avoid the issue of cost.

49er

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

49er wrote:

Todzo wrote:

123.Shawn T.W. wrote:But ... will it measure brain waves to know if your asleep or not? What stage?

Still seems like it would need to attached toy your head, so the patient could move around, turn over ...

The Chinese have done an amazing job producing affordable wireless pulse oximeters. They have always worked well for me.

They are becoming quite sophisticated in their use and production of technology.

So what if they made a little thermal camera sensing unit that could be added to something looking like a headset microphone on my proposed wireless EEG sensor unit (Head Band in previous post). Might as well have audio available as well and do some Phonospirometry.

They will probably do this and make the greedy, slow, unimaginative doctors in America look like what they are.

Todzo,

What does the cost look like as you know that is a big time issue? Even if changes were made, I fear insurance companies might resist even more in paying for full scale studies.

49er

The politics here currently make such change impossible - which is why we need to change that!!!

It is also why I think the Chinese are more likely to do this than we are.

Probably it is time for us all to study some Pinyin!

Not sure what you are talking regarding changing politics. Insurance companies will always be part of the equation no matter who is in power so you can't simply avoid the issue of cost.

49er

I am not avoiding the cost issue I am going for it's throat. How about a 100 year moratorium on medical patents for example.

If memory serves it was about 1990. I needed a way to see if my antenna was working well. I fed it with 30,000 watts, it was at about 300' up the tower. Ground measurements at the frequency, considering the terrain, would not yield useful data. I considered making my own drone.

Then I thought about the watts and heat. “What about infrared” I thought. I found a guy with an IR camera and a germanium telephoto lens! No kidding. The cost for the survey - $300.00.

In the medical realm costs go through the roof because people are greedy and have gained too much political power. We need to change that!

Todzo wrote:http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/ ... leep-apnea

The new diagnostic procedure developed by Pavlidis, Murthy and their collaborators uses a thermal infrared camera to monitor breathing waveforms and airflow as a patient breathes in and out of his or her nose.

What if you're a mouth breather? And what if you toss and turn?

pikov22 wrote:

Todzo wrote: http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/ ... leep-apnea

The new diagnostic procedure developed by Pavlidis, Murthy and their collaborators uses a thermal infrared camera to monitor breathing waveforms and airflow as a patient breathes in and out of his or her nose.

What if you're a mouth breather? And what if you toss and turn?

I think one of the main problems with the current sleep test is that they have not moved to correct the problems that exist with it. Still using wires. Still using individual pads and grease, still doing the test in the lab - we are back in the 50s!

If you have a new method you take the time to develop it with the current technologies. So the potential problems you mention would be noted and overcome.

At least they are looking at new ways of doing things.

pikov22 wrote:

Todzo wrote:http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/ ... leep-apnea

The new diagnostic procedure developed by Pavlidis, Murthy and their collaborators uses a thermal infrared camera to monitor breathing waveforms and airflow as a patient breathes in and out of his or her nose.

What if you're a mouth breather? And what if you toss and turn?

Here is the referenced article in Sleep: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 1.1521.pdf

There is good information here to start building a next generation sleep testing system.

If I were doing this I would start with finding some commercial IR sensors (and probably some thermal sink devices) along with some optics to make a little “camera” that looks specifically at the nose/mouth region from a few inches away. I am thinking of something that looks like the microphone you have with computer head sets being fitted with the special “cameras” along with a microphone.

If it were added to my proposed head band you would have:

EEG

Sensing of air flow

Sensing of air pressures

Sensing of CO2 levels

Phonospirometry (some claim to be able to assess airway characteristics from this)

You could add little “spy” type cameras to detect eye movement for REM detection

All with no wires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With a wrist worn pulse oximeter you have pulse and oximetery.

With a special T shirt you can add detection of respiratory effort and ECG (add detection of heart rate variability down stream).

Strap some wireless sensors to the legs and ya got the rest.

So a person goes to a class and learns how to put all this on and the test is done in his own home, where it has needed to be done from the first.

I suppose I can see why some people might be upset at this as it would make what they have very very obsolete. Perhaps I can even understand why they would stoop to verbal abuse worthy of a grade schooler and implied verbal threat, pathetic as that is. I think they should go find something that they can do and get out of the way.

Mollete,

Since you are in the sleep medicine field, I really am curious about your prospective as to the feasibility of having sleep tests that would eliminate many of the wires.

Since it seems that so many people feel they have to take meds in order to being able to sleep through the test, wouldn't the profession have an interest in coming up with a system that would make people more comfortable and thus increase the chances that people wouldn't feel the need to take a med? I am concerned that taking meds would impact the accuracy of the studies although I thought I had read somewhere that the impact isn't that great.

But even if meds aren't an issue, wouldn't simply wanting to get as many people screened as possible be an incentive to work on changes since many people have qualms about the current setup of a fully scale study? I am not asking by the way to be accusatory but am curious as to what the thought process is for change besides considering the issue of cost.

Thanks!

49er