CPAP Basics - 4

carbonman wrote: . . . is SleepWell a pen name?. . . .

Not mine. I got no masters in business, and my wife doesn't claim to be a witch and can't paint like that.

carbonman wrote:I love the way each new "step" goes wild and spirals out of control.
It's like blowing up a balloon and then releasing it.

SleepWell,
You can take a shot, roll w/it and
come out for the next bell.
Something to be said for that.
God love you for trying.

Well said.

I'm not sure why I'm hoping so much that this guy will find his niche here, even though so many others seem irritated by him. Maybe I've got a soft spot for people from Oregon. I have a feeling he has some valuable help to give and a useful perspective, once he figures this place out.

Cheering for ya, Jim.

-jeff

I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.? Just pick a topic and talk about it.

jnk wrote:

carbonman wrote: . .SleepWell,
You can take a shot, roll w/it and
come out for the next bell.
Something to be said for that.
God love you for trying.

Well said.

I'm not sure why I'm hoping so much that this guy will find his niche here, even though so many others seem irritated by him. Maybe I've got a soft spot for people from Oregon. I have a feeling he has some valuable help to give and a useful perspective, once he figures this place out.
Cheering for ya, Jim.
-jeff

I think I know why! It's because Jim seems to be a gentleman...just like my two "boys"!

zoocrewphoto wrote:I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.?

Because this matches CB's pamphlet and will be used as material for the Second Edition.

zoocrewphoto wrote:I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.? Just pick a topic and talk about it.

Totally agree Zoo Crew. It comes across as a one size fits all mentality that so many people in the medical providers and folks in the medical industry have.

49er

49er wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote:I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.? Just pick a topic and talk about it.

Totally agree Zoo Crew. It comes across as a one size fits all mentality that so many people in the medical providers and folks in the medical industry have.

'Zactly!

Clearly from a non-user's, DME POV so they can get through 30 days compliance and get their $$$.

It's always about the $$$.

DME$.

Who needs 'em.

49er wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote:I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.? Just pick a topic and talk about it.

Totally agree Zoo Crew. It comes across as a one size fits all mentality that so many people in the medical providers and folks in the medical industry have.

49er

Personally, I think the group here is way better than any book can ever be. The order of importance is going to vary based on each person's experience. Some people may get lucky with a good DME, a good machine, a suitable mask for the first choice, etc. Others may get all the worst things to start off. And most people will have a mix of good and bad.

I also believe it is much more useful to get this type of information from people who have actually experienced sleep apnea and used a cpap machine. I understand that Jim has tried some masks on, and I believe he tried them with pressure. But I did not get the impression that has slept a whole night with one on and running. I get the impression that most DMEs have no idea how hard it can be to get to used to sleeping with a mask and higher air pressures. They don't realize how disturbing leaks can be, how painful some masks can be, etc. So, they truly don't know what is important and how to really deal with it.

Books can only really give general information. Can you imagine how large a book would have to be to explain the fitting and tips for every single mask along with common problems with the masks and how to correct them? Yet all of that is here? You don't even have to know what questions to ask. The people here will ask you the important info, and people familiar with the same mask and same problems will help you solve them.

I do appreciate that the signature is better than before. But I have had an icky feeling about this whole situation since it started. I do not like infomercials. I do not want somebody who hasn't slept with a cpap machine to preach to me about cpap basics. And I find it really odd that a question is asked (what is number 1, 2, etc), yet the answer is ignored and the lesson continues on.

And I really don't understand the motive. Everything being "taught" has already been discussed many times, and is not new and not very specific. I really think it is a way to discuss the topics in the book so as to improve his book. Or simply a way to keep getting the sig line seen as often as possible as a way to advertise. To me, that is inappropriate. And probably useless since anybody here already has access to this forum, which is far better than any book.

zoocrewphoto wrote: The order of importance is going to vary based on each person's experience.

.....and there it is.

zoocrewphoto wrote:I get the impression that most DMEs have no idea how hard it can be to get to used to sleeping with a mask and higher air pressures. They don't realize how disturbing leaks can be, how painful some masks can be, etc. So, they truly don't know what is important and how to really deal with it.

If you don't know the pain and fatigue,
if you ain't strapp'n it on every night,
how can you tell some one that is, how to.

The only way to know what this is like is.....
to live it.

zoocrewphoto wrote: a way to advertise. To me, that is inappropriate.

I agree with many/most/if not all of your points. I appreciate Johnny allows us the freedom to post our individual opinions on such matters. That is part of what I love about this place. Just remember that the thread we each choose to post in is the thread we each choose to bump. In that sense, there is no such thing as bad publicity in a forum.

As for Johnny's opinion on the matter, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that it was most recently expressed in the following words, unless he chooses to update his guideline and direction in the future:

johnnygoodman on Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:50 pm wrote:On a related note, people ask me from time to time why [certain businesses] get to promote their stuff on the forum. I think its GREAT that we've got CPAPers thinking outside the box, making CPAP more comfortable, lowering the barrier to newbie entry and building small businesses along the way. So long as they are promoting by engaging with users who are interested and being upstanding CPAPtalkers, why wouldn't I be thrilled to have them choose CPAPtalk as the place to put down roots?--viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37042&p=322643#p322643

Color, and the wording inside the brackets, were both added by me.

As has often been said, our views on free speech are indicated by our attitude toward speech we do not agree with.

I may find certain posts, or certain kinds of posts, or certain posters irritating, but I would find it even more irritating if they were ridden out on a rail, so to speak, carpet-baggers or not.

But hey, that's just me.

zoocrewphoto wrote:

49er wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote:I am totally puzzled by this weekly topic thing. I thought it was pretty clear that nobody agrees on what is number, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. So, it seems like each weekly post ignores the fact that nobody agreed on what the previous number's topic should have been.

Why bother with most important, second most important thing, etc.? Just pick a topic and talk about it.

Totally agree Zoo Crew. It comes across as a one size fits all mentality that so many people in the medical providers and folks in the medical industry have.

49er

Personally, I think the group here is way better than any book can ever be. The order of importance is going to vary based on each person's experience. Some people may get lucky with a good DME, a good machine, a suitable mask for the first choice, etc. Others may get all the worst things to start off. And most people will have a mix of good and bad.

I also believe it is much more useful to get this type of information from people who have actually experienced sleep apnea and used a cpap machine. I understand that Jim has tried some masks on, and I believe he tried them with pressure. But I did not get the impression that has slept a whole night with one on and running. I get the impression that most DMEs have no idea how hard it can be to get to used to sleeping with a mask and higher air pressures. They don't realize how disturbing leaks can be, how painful some masks can be, etc. So, they truly don't know what is important and how to really deal with it.

Books can only really give general information. Can you imagine how large a book would have to be to explain the fitting and tips for every single mask along with common problems with the masks and how to correct them? Yet all of that is here? You don't even have to know what questions to ask. The people here will ask you the important info, and people familiar with the same mask and same problems will help you solve them.

I do appreciate that the signature is better than before. But I have had an icky feeling about this whole situation since it started. I do not like infomercials. I do not want somebody who hasn't slept with a cpap machine to preach to me about cpap basics. And I find it really odd that a question is asked (what is number 1, 2, etc), yet the answer is ignored and the lesson continues on.

And I really don't understand the motive. Everything being "taught" has already been discussed many times, and is not new and not very specific. I really think it is a way to discuss the topics in the book so as to improve his book. Or simply a way to keep getting the sig line seen as often as possible as a way to advertise. To me, that is inappropriate. And probably useless since anybody here already has access to this forum, which is far better than any book.

Zoo Crew, if we had post a rating system in this forum, I would give you the highest number and double it. Excellent, excellent post.

49er

jnk wrote:

zoocrewphoto wrote: a way to advertise. To me, that is inappropriate.

I agree with many/most/if not all of your points. I appreciate Johnny allows us the freedom to post our individual opinions on such matters. That is part of what I love about this place. Just remember that the thread we each choose to post in is the thread we each choose to bump. In that sense, there is no such thing as bad publicity in a forum.

As for Johnny's opinion on the matter, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that it was most recently expressed in the following words, unless he chooses to update his guideline and direction in the future:

On a related note, people ask me from time to time why [certain businesses] get to promote their stuff on the forum. I think its GREAT that we've got CPAPers thinking outside the box, making CPAP more comfortable, lowering the barrier to newbie entry and building small businesses along the way. So long as they are promoting by engaging with users who are interested and being upstanding CPAPtalkers, why wouldn't I be thrilled to have them choose CPAPtalk as the place to put down roots?--viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37042&p=322643#p322643

Color, and the wording inside the brackets, were both added by me.

JNK,

The issue for me isn't that people come to this forum to sell things as long as their agenda is clear which it is with alot of sellers. And many folks who do, like stl Mark, provide a clear benefit in doing so as he sells machines in great condition that are deeply discounted.

Zoo Crew nailed it precisely by about Jim's posts being an infomercial and essentially ignoring our feedback. That is a whole different ballgame in my opinion.

Sadly, in spite of her excellent post, I don't expect anything to change on his part for various reasons.

49er

49er wrote:. . . I don't expect anything to change on his part for various reasons. . . .

I don't know--he's been accommodating so far, IMO, to suggestions.

I just added these words to my post above:

As has often been said, our views on free speech are indicated by our attitude toward speech we do not agree with.

I may find certain posts, or certain kinds of posts, or certain posters irritating, but I would find it even more irritating if they were ridden out on a rail, so to speak, carpetbaggers or not.

But hey, that's just me.

Give him time to learn his way around. His ways may change. His selling a product IS irritating. But he may have something useful in spite of that. Or not. We'll just have to see. In my opinion.

Meanwhile, the posts suggesting ways he can be more helpful and less CBish may be very valuable info for him in how to be more of an asset around here, and less of an irritation.

I very much respect your take on it, though, 49er. And zoocrewphoto's.

49er wrote:Zoo Crew, if we had post a rating system in this forum,
I would give you the highest number and double it.

Uh-oh .....now we have to decide on a rating system?

....so, what determines an excellent, excellent post?
What determines a bad post?
What is the most important thing that can be posted?
Who should decide what these criteria are?
Who is going to decide who decides?

I think we should, now, break up into focus groups.
.....oh, wait....what should we focus on?
Who is going to decide that?

..... UH-OH .....I'm sensing a vicious circle here.

carbonman wrote:

49er wrote:Zoo Crew, if we had post a rating system in this forum,
I would give you the highest number and double it.

Uh-oh .....now we have to decide on a rating system?

....so, what determines an excellent, excellent post?
What determines a bad post?
What is the most important thing that can be posted?
Who should decide what these criteria are?
Who is going to decide who decides?

I think we should, now, break up into focus groups.
.....oh, wait....what should we focus on?
Who is going to decide that?

..... UH-OH .....I'm sensing a vicious circle here.

It was only a random thought Just forget what you just read

All jokes aside, I felt Zoo's post was excellent because she did a great job of summarizing some tough issues without flaming anybody. I just thought it was a great balancing act.

Continue with your own rating systems such as +1

My rating system is this:

Statements that say "I disagree with his opinion" get a +1.

Statements that say "I don't think people like him have a right to give their opinions here" get a -1.

Within reason.

Forums are complicated places. But IMO, variety of opinion, as opposed to pure consensus without outliers, is what increases a forum's overall value.

But that is only my opinion.