New TSA rules?

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billbolton
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by billbolton » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:27 pm

Amigo wrote:We should absolutely be profiling those who are most likely to be terrorists rather than subjecting every single airline passenger to what amounts to a complete violation of their rights to privacy.
Pragmatically, profiling has it own set of invasion of privacy issues and opportunity for wrongful the curtailment of normal civil liberty for the profiled citizenry, and in any case there are some relatively recent examples where profiling did not do anything useful related to detecting a realised threat.
Amigo wrote:Do you realize that the contents of the cargo hold are in no way subjected to the scrutiny that you are?
How do you figure that?

I have a quite a collection of TSA examination slips, found in my baggage after domestic flights in the US.

Cheers,

Bill

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jnk
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by jnk » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:04 pm

"Currently, passenger plane cargo is screened at airports and at Transportation Security Administration-certified facilities, both of which use radiation, chemical trace detection, dogs, and physical searches to check for explosive devices. The TSA now screens all cargo on domestic passenger planes, but told Markey that it is screening only 80 percent of cargo on inbound overseas flights and won’t be able to get to 100 percent for two more years."-- http://www.boston.com/business/articles ... screening/

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So Well
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by So Well » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:09 pm

idamtnboy wrote:
So Well wrote:So these are the same type of government agencies that are going to straighten out your medical care?
Yep. The managers went to special training on how to run large a organization. The training was put on by top executives from Enron, General Motors, Chrysler, Worldcom, and some others I don't recall. Bernie Madhoff made a guest appearance as did Billie Sol Estes and Charles Keating. Jim Baker was the ad hoc chaplain. Oh, that we would have paid attention to W when he said Government should be run like a business!
There is a huge difference between incompetent companies in a free market and incompetent governments. Incompetent companies will soon cease to exist (unless incompetent governments protect them with regulation, bailouts and other favors).

Incompetent governments go on and on to the distress of the citizens.

No one is forced to buy products from, work for, invest in, or in any way deal with incompetent businesses. All dealings are voluntary.

Incompetent governments at the threat of violence and imprisonment, force the citizens to work for them, invest in them, and buy their products and services no matter how poor the quality and how high the cost.

I bought a new vehicle from GM in 1973 and learned enough to not buy another one for 37 years and counting. I have also avoided Chrysler products. The market has consistently given me much better choices.

The government gives me no choices. I must use and pay for their services even when they are of poor quality and high price.

The free market is different. I have choices and only engage in voluntary transactions. During my lifetime the free market has created a level of prosperity that my generation could not have imagined. What our government did during WWII was invaluable. Much of what it has done since is tyrannical.

A government cannot be run like a business. A business has to compete; has to offer a product so good that the customer will voluntarily pay for; is at the mercy of the customer; and is under constant threat of failure.

If George W. Bush said government should be run like a business he was wrong. The U.S. government was formed to protect us from foreign threats and preserve our God-given rights. Read the U.S. Constitution.
So Well
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chunkyfrog
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:40 pm

How are they going to handle the boycott?
Two lines; one for scanner, one for pat-downs, first line done leaves with the plane?

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idamtnboy
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by idamtnboy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:06 pm

So Well wrote:There is a huge difference between incompetent companies in a free market and incompetent governments. Incompetent companies will soon cease to exist (unless incompetent governments protect them with regulation, bailouts and other favors).
Agree.
Incompetent governments go on and on to the distress of the citizens.
Eventually the citizens find a way to undermine or sabotage an incompetent government. USSR for example.
No one is forced to buy products from, work for, invest in, or in any way deal with incompetent businesses. All dealings are voluntary.
Theoretically, yes, in reality, not the case. Try to tell that to the former employees of Enron who were prevented from moving their retirement funds from the investment in Enron. Tell that to computer makers who 2 decades ago were given the choice, install the MS operating system, or sell a computer with only a blank HD.
Incompetent governments at the threat of violence and imprisonment, force the citizens to work for them, invest in them, and buy their products and services no matter how poor the quality and how high the cost.
Dictatorial governments maybe. Only incompetent ones, no. You are not forced to work for Uncle Sam, yet you label it incompetent.
I bought a new vehicle from GM in 1973 and learned enough to not buy another one for 37 years and counting. I have also avoided Chrysler products. The market has consistently given me much better choices.
Not consistently. The market today gives us crappier plywood than ever before, wrenches that break more easily than in the past, food filled with chemicals. Alternatives are either not available or are much, much higher priced and out to reach of most. The market today gives us telephones with a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years. Sixty years ago Bell Labs built telephones to last 40 years. The market gives land line telephone service to homeowners for a comparatively much higher price today than 50 years ago.
The government gives me no choices. I must use and pay for their services even when they are of poor quality and high price.
Free market monopolies do the same thing.
The free market is different. I have choices and only engage in voluntary transactions.
I guess you've never engaged in discussions of how Microsoft strong armed computer builders to pay for an MS operating systems even if they wanted to install OS/2 on a PC. Cite me one major retailer who sells Apple products at a steep discount from the Apple mandated retail pricing structure.
During my lifetime the free market has created a level of prosperity that my generation could not have imagined. What our government did during WWII was invaluable. Much of what it has done since is tyrannical.
Review history. Much of what you would consider tyrannical, such as trust busting, took place before WWII. The tyrannical approach of government is often a response to tyranny by private industry. Pollution control laws, for example, in response to the free market created Love Canal.
A government cannot be run like a business. A business has to compete; has to offer a product so good that the customer will voluntarily pay for; is at the mercy of the customer; and is under constant threat of failure.
Your idealism clouds your view of reality! Doesn't look like that's the case with the big banks. But then again maybe it is a free market result. The banking industry has succeeded in putting into place the best Congress money can buy!
If George W. Bush said government should be run like a business he was wrong. The U.S. government was formed to protect us from foreign threats and preserve our God-given rights. Read the U.S. Constitution.
And therein lies the crux of the problem today. What some view as their God-given rights others see as human-given intrusions into their rights. Your rights end where my rights begin.

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So Well
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by So Well » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:11 pm

idamtnboy wrote: What some view as their God-given rights others see as human-given intrusions into their rights. Your rights end where my rights begin.
Your statement seems to address the underlying issue, but your statement is obscure to me. Clarify if you care to.
So Well
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lktnky
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by lktnky » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:17 pm

Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread?

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So Well
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by So Well » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:21 pm

On another point, I flew from Newark last night. They don't have the body scanners and I did not see anyone pulled for patdowns. Things were pretty much as usual except the cab ride was very slow through heavy congestion.

TV news just now showed a lady in some airport wearing a coat. When she opened the coat, a small bikini was revealed. She said it was to make it easy and quick for TSA. Good idea I thought.

Haven't slept in about 36 hours. Think I will be in bed by 9:00 tonight. In-laws will pile in tomorrow.

Happy Thanksgiving.
So Well
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson


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So Well
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Bullbleep

Post by So Well » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:22 pm

lktnky wrote:Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread?
Start one yourself.
So Well
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson


lktnky
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by lktnky » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:25 pm

I started this one.

jnk
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by jnk » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:36 pm

So Well wrote: . . . Newark . . . They don't have the body scanners . . .
Depends on the terminal.
. . . there are six body scanners in Terminal B at Newark Airport that are in use. Two body scanners are also in place in Terminal C, but they have not been placed in operation yet . . .
http://www.northjersey.com/travel/11241 ... c=y&page=2

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So Well
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by So Well » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:39 pm

lktnky wrote:I started this one.
Starting a topic here is like starting a fire in the brush - sometimes it gets into the woods.

You are in the woods now. Do your best.
So Well
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson


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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by idamtnboy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:10 pm

lktnky wrote:Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread?
I passingly thought about that since we've taken this one pretty far afield from the original topic. But, I plan to just let this aspect of the thread die since the discussion has gotten so far from the intent of this thread, and this forum. Besides, changing some folks' minds, like maybe my own, is an exercise in futility, or awfully close to it!

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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by idamtnboy » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:34 pm

So Well wrote:
idamtnboy wrote: What some view as their God-given rights others see as human-given intrusions into their rights. Your rights end where my rights begin.
Your statement seems to address the underlying issue, but your statement is obscure to me. Clarify if you care to.
My last comment on this diversion from the original topic. I will use 'I' and 'you' to mean anyone and anyone else, not you and me specifically. An example: I have a right to raise a young child free of the fear of childhood diseases such a chicken pox, mumps, and measles because the medical resources are available to prevent those diseases. You have a right (under libertarian viewpoint) to decide what is best for your child and to refuse to have him or her vaccinated because of rare anecdotal experiences where vaccines have endangered a child's health. My, i.e. 99.99% of the population, right to be knowingly free of a disease trumps your, 0.01% of the population, right to not vaccinate your child to avoid a remotely possible bad reaction. (Percentages are illustrative guesstimates only based on what little I have actually read about the issue.)

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jlk
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Re: New TSA rules?

Post by jlk » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:53 pm

Another good example that ruffles feathers every day is cigarete smoking. Smokers want the right to smoke in public places and non-smoking people in public places don't want to breathe cigarette smoke. I and my employees deal with this problem almost weekly. Oregon enacted a law to ban people from smoking with-in 10 feet of a public building door, window, vent...I own rental beach cabins and have the website, entry steps, office, porches and inside the cabins posted as non-smoking. This law is supposed to be inforced by the busines owner and can be punishable by a $500 fine to the business owner. People want to go to the beach and smell the ocean and sleep with windows open to hear the ocean, then you have the people that want to smoke outside on the decks and it blows in peoples rooms at night and we hear complaints about it quite often. So your (smokers) right to smoke ends where my right to breathe clean air begins. It can be applied to many instances of life and people will never agree on who's rights should apply. john

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