Resmed Press Release

For those of you who feel confused over this discussion or the differences in machines, one thing to know: it's how well the device's breathing technology matches up with your own breathing pattern that's important. Each mfg uses it's own unique technology and that's key. As some here can attest (I'm thinking specifically of CarbonMan), one mfg's machines will deliver more effective therapy for you than other mfgs...just because the technology is more aligned with your natural breathing resuling in a more restful sleep with better numbers. For those of us for whom ResMed makes the ideal machine, it appears that the S9 models help us sleep a bit longer than the equivalent version of the earlier machines.

Personally, I think it's a shame we can't rent several different machines to determine which is the best for us when we're diagnosed.

PS I love my mask off alert and the multiple levels of mask fit -- ResMed shoulda keep those features IMHO... like they care what I think

Slinky wrote:

chunkyfrog wrote:First of all; 50 is not a statistically valid sample--but besides that----
Second; I love my S9 Elite--I don't know if any other machine that shows the AHI and leaks on screen.
I just don't have the time to use my computer before work. ...

Ahhhh, the Resmed S8s and S8 IIs provided EASY access to and a superior amount of data via the LCD screen. The Respironics pre-M (Legacy) Series and the Respironics M Series and the new PR SystemOnes provide some efficacy data via their LCD screens (of course, Respironics didn't have the brains God gave a goose to provide backlighting for their LCD screen so you could SEE the data w/o a flashlight). DeVilbiss, Fisher & Paykel and what WAS Puritan Bennet, then Covidien and now Sandman, are all offering fully data capable CPAPs and APAPs now too.

And the Resmed S8s and S8 IIs provide ACTUAL Leak data, not some stupid, insulting Smiley face.

I'm still far from convinced that the S9s are that big a step forward from the S8s and S8 IIs for durability or data reporting or for that matter for therapy efficacy over the S8 IIs which also have that new EasyBreathe technology.

I thought this was another Resmed commercial until the end....lmao.

Slinky wrote:Amen to the Smiley face, Chunky!! I actually find it rather offensive. At least w/the S8s, S8 IIs Resmed respected our intelligence enough to give us actual numbers to work with instead of that asinine insulting smirking smiley face.

Wow, I didn't know about that. That would really irritate me.

This conundrum of product loyalty.

I like to believe in and support the products that I use.
Especially this product, as it is my life.

Once I made the switch from Mseries to Resmed, my therapy
really stabalized. I can't say enough good things about
my family of S8s. All I can do is echo what Slinky has
said in support of them......and give her the majority of
credit for convincing me to try Resmed.

I have never been convinced that the S9s are really any
better and highly suspect that the change in event detection and
reporting is nothing more than user manipulation.
Before all you S9'ers get the flame throwers out,
if they are working for you, great. It's just the way
I see it.....end of discussion.

In the face of the bullying, greedy face that Resmed has
presented and the disgracful way that they have treated
cpap.com and Johnny, I have a real problem.
Everynight when I indulge in the care and feeding of my
life giving system, I have this feeling of contempt....
like I am supporting the Black Knight.
It's an ugly feeling.
Resmed doesn't care about us, the users.
They care about money and control.

I have years of Resmed therapy stashed in the closet that
was obtained through cpapauction at VERY reasonable cost.
I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to
stock my DME warehouse when I had the chance.
Thanks! Johnny.

Such is the conundrum of loyalty for a product that gives me a life and
at the same time, have such disdain for the company that provides that product.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions

carbonman wrote:Thoughts/comments/suggestions

I think patients should do what is in their best interest without regard to emotional issues.

That said, I believe that RedMed's tactics are going to hurt their business, even if no one boycotts them. It is waking people up to the fact that there are cheaper alternatives out there, and I suspect people are going to start giving the cheaper machines a more serious look.

Respironics has engaged in similar bad behavior with their refusal to let anything other than the MSRP be advertised.

These are the two big companies. I suspect both of them will lose market share, because what they are doing is penny wise and pound foolish. If people cannot easily acquire a used RedMed machine, some people may start with another brand simply because they could get it at a good price. There is a tendency of people to stick with the brand they already have the next time they purchase a machine, because it's what they know, regardless of whether it's the best.


Imagine if Toyota would not allow their used cars to be sold easily. This is not a perfect analogy, but just imagine it for a moment. Would that affect people's decision on which car to buy new? You bet it would.

I don't think RedMed's restriction of sales of used machines is helpful to them. A lot of people are going to look at that and realize they can't get rid of their used ResMed machine very easily when they get a new machine. I suspect that will make a difference to some people.

I'm just waiting to see if Respironics will follow suit.

But what I'm really waiting to see is if some of the minor players will become a lot more popular.

The last estimates that I read were that Respironics and Resmed controlled 80% of the xPAP market in the USA which is the largest market of xPAP users in the world. Granted Respironics has a CONSIDERABLY larger portion of that market than Resmed does, but (in my personal opinion) the S8s were giving Resmed a real serious in-road into the Respironics market given the gaffs Respironics made w/the M Series. But now ..... ???

I wonder what percentage of CPAP/APAP are purchased directly from sources like cpap.com vs. DME. I would guess that Resmed and Respironics manage to hold their market share because of the DME. I know my DME (a large, national DME) told me they carry Resmed and Respironics CPAPs.

jmcd wrote:I wonder what percentage of CPAP/APAP are purchased directly from sources like cpap.com vs. DME.

I don't know the percentages, but my bet is that people who purchase a CPAP online are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to those who receive their machines from brick/mortar DMEs.

The brick/mortar DMEs are the CPAP manufacturers' real customers.
They're the BIG customers.
They're the ones who matter.

How we, the online buyers, spend (or don't spend) our money for this brand or that brand of CPAP is an insignificant blip (if it even causes a miniscule blip at all) on the sales charts of ResMed and Respironics.

Just my opinion. I wish it weren't like that.

LoQ wrote:
I think patients should do what is in their best interest without regard to emotional issues.

I disagree. Sometimes one must stand up for principles, regardless of one's own self interests.

LoQ wrote: That said, I believe that RedMed's tactics are going to hurt their business, even if no one boycotts them. It is waking people up to the fact that there are cheaper alternatives out there, and I suspect people are going to start giving the cheaper machines a more serious look.

I wish this was the case, but I'm not so certain. The reality is that many (most?) xpaps are selected by DMEs and paid for by insurance companies. Most end-users don't get to select which machine they get. The enlightened users of this forum are the exception rather than the rule.

DMEs like to select Resmeds because Resmed's artificially-high prices provide much higher profit margins for the DMEs. Insurance companies don't fight this cost, choosing instead to recover the higher costs through higher premiums for coverage.

Because DME's make more money when they sell Resmed products, they preferentially use Resmed. And this means better sales for Resmed. Capitalism at it's worst.

It's all rather insidious, and in my mind, it begs for regulatory controls.

rested gal wrote:

jmcd wrote:I wonder what percentage of CPAP/APAP are purchased directly from sources like cpap.com vs. DME.

I don't know the percentages, but my bet is that people who purchase a CPAP online are a tiny drop in the bucket compared to those who receive their machines from brick/mortar DMEs.

The brick/mortar DMEs are the CPAP manufacturers' real customers.
They're the BIG customers.
They're the ones who matter.

How we, the online buyers, spend (or don't spend) our money for this brand or that brand of CPAP is an insignificant blip (if it even causes a miniscule blip at all) on the sales charts of ResMed and Respironics.

Just my opinion. I wish it weren't like that.

If we (the minuscule, online purchasers) ARE so insignificant........how come all the manufacturers read this site?
(And then try, by whatever means they can get away with, to squash us?)
Yeah, I know......we're a small segment of the users, but apparently they're gleaning something out of our exchanges here.


Den

I don't think it's "us" they are trying to squash.

It's the online dealers the major manufacturers would like to squash. More specifically, it's the advertised low prices by online dealers the major manufacturers want to squash -- in order to protect their big customers' (the brick/mortar DMEs) businesses.

The brick/mortar DMEs probably are afraid (and rightly so) that insurance company and Medicare bean counters will notice the low online prices and come to the conclusion that they (insurance and Medicare) have been reimbursing too much for CPAP and accessories.

Insurance and Medicare lower their reimbursements, the brick/mortar DMEs make less profit, some of them go out of business...some of them simply stop carrying CPAP and concentrate on their other durable medical equipment stuff. That's one less BIG customer to buy machines from the manufacturer.

Yeah, the major manufacturers probably do read this message board fairly regularly. Perhaps sometimes to get ideas about what could use improvement. But most of the time just to laugh at us. Am I cynical, or what?

rested gal wrote:Perhaps sometimes to get ideas about what could use improvement.

Sure took them long enough to get past the old "smart cards". Remember some years ago when there were "mystery guests" showing up here asking for ideas about how to improve or design machines? I remember that one of the suggestions was for larger and more universal memory storage for the data. I find it somewhat ironical now that BOTH of the big manufacturers are using the SD memory in their latest models. (there may be others using it, too)


Den

rested gal wrote:...Am I cynical, or what?

Yeah, but then so are the rest of us who've been here awhile.

LoQ wrote:

carbonman wrote: Respironics has engaged in similar bad behavior with their refusal to let anything other than the MSRP be advertised.

I had an on-line retail company once and that practice is a common one and lots of companies do that. Distributors are compelled to enforce it and they do after a point. You can tell a customer a lower price, but they can't see it directly advertised. So you have to "put in cart" to see the discounted price or get and e-mail, etc. You're supposed to mimic being in a store and having a shopkeeper open a display case and telling you what the real price is.

It is most uncommon in retail now and years ago to have a manufacturer not allow a retailer to discount an item. Resmed pulls that stunt, and it's one of the more sleazy ones that a manufacturer can do. Essentially it is price fixing. The irony is that I would guess that (behind the scenes) Resmed allows reimbursements for DME's and insurance companies to vary. That's a way to totally hide their mark up and real value from the consumer. while discounting their equipment. I highly doubt an insurance company would risk paying more for anything thinking they could catch up with higher premium costs. We will never know and anyone who sells Resmed is probably not allowed to tell you their sales policy. On the Internet, you will never see a discounted Resmed anything. The last thing they want is for people to know what their machines could really cost. It protects them, and also protects the insurance companies. That's the only sense I can make of it.

Now to restrict the sales of used machines should be illegal, frankly. All of this needs tighter regulation. We are talking about what makes health care so expensive beyond reality here. Companies like Resmed probably add to health care inflation. Respironics just has their advertised price restriction which happens commonly everywhere (even at amazon.com). But to play those games with medical equipment is wrong - especially the ones Resmed plays.

Because of a very high price, I was compelled to use a DME for my current machine (BiPAP Auto SV Advanced). I had problems, too and kind of wish I had 'stuck to my guns' and purchased online, despite the price.

The DME I used had a couple of ResMed machines on display in his office. But he told me that he did not like them very much and did not often dispense them.

I found in my case that I am very sensitive to machine algorithms. The DeVilbiss IntelliPAP autoadjust almost, but not quite worked for me. I like that machine a lot, and is now my backup/camping machine. The ResMed VPAP Auto 25, used as an APAP was a wonderful machine to breathe against, and very well made. But it inherits the infamous 'A10 algorithm' from the other S8 series machines, and it did not respond to 'my kind' of apnea (which is a odd mix of a lot of things, both OSA and central). So that machine will eventually be sold-- if I can sell it now.

I suspect that the thing that makes the S9 better than the S8 series is the use of 'Forced Oscillation Technique' detection of open-airway apneas. This allows the machine to more or less discern obstructive from central apneas, even at higher pressures. This eliminates the need for the troublesome A10 algorithm. By knowing if an event was obstructive in nature, it can be successfully treated with higher pressure. So overall, I bet the average S9 patient has a lower overall average pressure, which definitely helps with therapy comfort. They will also tend to feel better, because the therapy is effective over a greater range of pressures.

Ultimately though, nearly the entire health care industry needs to be 'slapped down' for their outrageous greed. And this recent Ob_______ legislation is making things worse rather then better.