My Husband and Sleep Apnea....I need you help

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Slinky wrote:James Skinner!!!!! Gasp!!!! O'm'goshes, it is SO GOOOOOOOOD to see you two posting!!! James we've missed your wonderful smile! And, Gasp, ah, Gasp, you KNOW how much I love your avatar!!1 Welcome back, guys, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS, even if a bit early!

Thanks Slinky : )))) The worst of the busy/move/house sell is over - hopefully and I have a life again. It's good to be back, although I feel like a bit of a stranger not recognizing so many new members

He has to take owership of his disorder, so back off a little for now. He must be frustrated. CPAP is not for everybody. He had a bad experience with CPAP mask so it is time for a surgical consultation. Not surgery, but a consultation to review his options. Sometimes after talking to a surgeon, people take a fresh look at CPAP. Sometimes surgery fixes the problem so CPAP is not needed. An oral/dental device is not ideal for severe apnea. Also consider seeking out a different sleep clinic, sometimes a different approach improves the situation. Finally, find a local AWAKE group. THe AWAKE group may help him understand the situation without the nagging or authority figures.

frtwome, my heart goes out to you!! Many, many passionate posts, you've hit at the heart string of us all!!

Situation is very similar to being married to an Alcoholic. Reasoning part of the brain is oxygen deprived. Rationality is diminished and denial is a 'nice warm blanket'.

I would identify the 'enabling' behavior. How am I enabling the disease?? Set up healthy boundaries, unconditional love for someone who is very sick, but not enabling the disease. Easier said then done!! You can get drawn in, exhaustively (physically and mentally) enabling someone with OSA. Your codependent behavior can cause you to suffer tremendously...

Do you have a nice 'Recliner' your husband can sleep on?? Maybe that's a nice start...

My prayers and thoughts go out to you,

SG

identify the 'enabling' behavior. How am I enabling the disease?? Set up healthy boundaries, unconditional love for someone who is very sick, but not enabling the disease.

Yes - this.
He is getting lots of positive strokes from you for not trying cpap. You are hovering, stressing out, "showing you love him" getting more and more anxious about it. You are probably doing his chores for him because he is so tired. The whole family is going "Ahhh poor boy , looks so bad, so tired, off course it is hard to wear a mask, you poor thing, and with a nagging wifey too".
Those are lots of "feel good" reasons not to use cpap.

You tried the persuasion, the begging the crying. Time to put that all behind you. You need to use elementary dog training methods, simple reward system. He wants "cuddling" with you in bed ? - that is a reward for good behavior - wear your mask buddy and I will come back to bed.

Cut off his supply of enabling strokes and emotion and tell him until he is again the MAN you married instead of the toddler he is acting now then you will be a wife to the man again.

frtwome wrote:I haven't actually video taped him sleeping, but I have told him so many times, what he does when he is sleeping. We also have had friends over that spent the night, and they told him too. I thought that he would believe them, more than his wife. And, I think that he does believe it. But, I cannot get him to have the will power to help himself, We are only 53 years old, he is 80 lbs over weight, with absolutely no activity. He is always tired, so I can't get him to do anything, he just dozes all day long. It's terrible.

I don't say this to upset you further, but: My Dad died of a heart attack two years ago. He was 53 years old, and about 100 lbs overweight. His favorite activities were overeating and napping in front of the TV.

For years, he got more and more irritable, and fell asleep at the drop of a hat. My Mom would cut his hair using a Flowbee (remember those?) and he could never keep his head up for it. For some reason, no doctor diagnosed sleep apnea, but his snoring rattled the walls at night when I lived at home. He wouldn't take advice from anyone about changing his life, and considered it nagging. He got progressively crankier and frustrated that he couldn't even think straight, and blamed everyone around him for it. My parents even got divorced around 10 years ago, after I was well out of the house and things came to a head. This all sounds so familiar.

My Grampa on my Dad's side snores louder than my Dad, but won't get CPAP. He's still alive, but he's had a quadruple bypass and then a series of debilitating strokes. I'm pretty sure he rolled down the same hill in terms of irritability and nodding off.

When sleep apnea symptoms ran me down, I resisted at first. But, my girlfriend (now wife) managed to set me straight, if only partially because I didn't want to turn out like my Dad. I was finally nodding off even at short red lights in the car, and as a computer programmer I would blink and then find that I'd held down a key on my keyboard for 5 straight minutes. And I was getting more and more cranky. My wife and I had fights, and I was so confused. I'm not generally the kind of guy who even raises his voice, so there was definitely something happening to me.

I practically hugged my CPAP machine and mask when I got them. I went to bed for 18 hours that afternoon when I brought them home. Since getting the equipment, I've only missed 4 days in 5 years, and I manage all 6-8 hours of sleep with it on every night. And I feel better than I had for years before it. My girlfriend became my wife, and I've managed to write several computer books and have been very successful in my career since then. I know that kind of sounds like an infomercial, but it's true. The weirdest thing about this CPAP stuff is that, out of all the crap they sell in the world to make your life somehow magically better—this thing actually delivers!

Maybe I'm lucky because I'm a nerd for gadgets and don't want to be like my Dad, so I've accepted this thing on my face every night without question—but there's nothing to be ashamed about or feel hurt pride about in accepting this therapy.

I tried convincing my Dad for years that he needed it, but no luck. And I'm just so angry that I never could get him on it, and that he died so young and spent so many years in a foul mood and unable to stay awake.

Your husband sounds so much like my Dad. I don't know if showing him the things people are saying here will help, and I'm pretty sure talking to a stranger won't change his mind. But you know, if it would help, I'd even give you my phone number to have a chat with him.

Your offer of talking with David is so nice of you. Everyone on this site are really nice, considerate people. And I truly appreciate it. It's nice to talk with people that have been through this and people who are dealing with it.
I try to be tough with David, but I fail because I know that he is very sick and he needs me. I keep telling him, if he will please try the CPAP, he will feel so much better, it would help him in so many ways. If it could get some real sleep, he would feel more like doing things, which would be some activity. It will help his health regarding his blood pressure, lose weight.
Like you with the computer, it's routine for him to wake up at 2:00am every morning. Then he gets on the computer. I can see him at the computer from our bedroom, I can see him dozing, I see his head keep going down. I call his name, ask him if he is okay, he very grumpy says...yes I'm okay, he tells me to leave him alone and go back to sleep. Many times I fix boo-boo's on the computer , from him holding down buttons when he dozes off. He can be talking with me and he falls asleep in the middle of his sentence. It's so sad.
But, like I've said. Dec. 16th when we are at his doctor. I want something done. I can't see him like this, when I know thare must be a way to help him have his life back. I am very scared for him.
Thank you again,
Judy

lmorchard wrote:

frtwome wrote:I haven't actually video taped him sleeping, but I have told him so many times, what he does when he is sleeping. We also have had friends over that spent the night, and they told him too. I thought that he would believe them, more than his wife. And, I think that he does believe it. But, I cannot get him to have the will power to help himself, We are only 53 years old, he is 80 lbs over weight, with absolutely no activity. He is always tired, so I can't get him to do anything, he just dozes all day long. It's terrible.

I don't say this to upset you further, but: My Dad died of a heart attack two years ago. He was 53 years old, and about 100 lbs overweight. His favorite activities were overeating and napping in front of the TV.

For years, he got more and more irritable, and fell asleep at the drop of a hat. My Mom would cut his hair using a Flowbee (remember those?) and he could never keep his head up for it. For some reason, no doctor diagnosed sleep apnea, but his snoring rattled the walls at night when I lived at home. He wouldn't take advice from anyone about changing his life, and considered it nagging. He got progressively crankier and frustrated that he couldn't even think straight, and blamed everyone around him for it. My parents even got divorced around 10 years ago, after I was well out of the house and things came to a head. This all sounds so familiar.

My Grampa on my Dad's side snores louder than my Dad, but won't get CPAP. He's still alive, but he's had a quadruple bypass and then a series of debilitating strokes. I'm pretty sure he rolled down the same hill in terms of irritability and nodding off.

When sleep apnea symptoms ran me down, I resisted at first. But, my girlfriend (now wife) managed to set me straight, if only partially because I didn't want to turn out like my Dad. I was finally nodding off even at short red lights in the car, and as a computer programmer I would blink and then find that I'd held down a key on my keyboard for 5 straight minutes. And I was getting more and more cranky. My wife and I had fights, and I was so confused. I'm not generally the kind of guy who even raises his voice, so there was definitely something happening to me.

I practically hugged my CPAP machine and mask when I got them. I went to bed for 18 hours that afternoon when I brought them home. Since getting the equipment, I've only missed 4 days in 5 years, and I manage all 6-8 hours of sleep with it on every night. And I feel better than I had for years before it. My girlfriend became my wife, and I've managed to write several computer books and have been very successful in my career since then. I know that kind of sounds like an infomercial, but it's true. The weirdest thing about this CPAP stuff is that, out of all the crap they sell in the world to make your life somehow magically better—this thing actually delivers!

Maybe I'm lucky because I'm a nerd for gadgets and don't want to be like my Dad, so I've accepted this thing on my face every night without question—but there's nothing to be ashamed about or feel hurt pride about in accepting this therapy.

I tried convincing my Dad for years that he needed it, but no luck. And I'm just so angry that I never could get him on it, and that he died so young and spent so many years in a foul mood and unable to stay awake.

Your husband sounds so much like my Dad. I don't know if showing him the things people are saying here will help, and I'm pretty sure talking to a stranger won't change his mind. But you know, if it would help, I'd even give you my phone number to have a chat with him.

Hang in there Judy, awareness is half the battle!!

take care,

SG

I know that you are absolutely correct. I have tried everything except being tough. But, when it comes to me being the tough guy with him, making him do things for himself, putting my foot down. That is where I fail. And yes, friends come over and tell him that he looks so tired, and poor baby. Usually they will end up telling me that I should do something, make David go see his doctor. But, none of them understand about sleep apnea. They just thing that he is over tired.
I know, I have to do whatever it takes. And, I will.
Judy

BlackSpinner wrote:

identify the 'enabling' behavior. How am I enabling the disease?? Set up healthy boundaries, unconditional love for someone who is very sick, but not enabling the disease.

Yes - this.
He is getting lots of positive strokes from you for not trying cpap. You are hovering, stressing out, "showing you love him" getting more and more anxious about it. You are probably doing his chores for him because he is so tired. The whole family is going "Ahhh poor boy , looks so bad, so tired, off course it is hard to wear a mask, you poor thing, and with a nagging wifey too".
Those are lots of "feel good" reasons not to use cpap.

You tried the persuasion, the begging the crying. Time to put that all behind you. You need to use elementary dog training methods, simple reward system. He wants "cuddling" with you in bed ? - that is a reward for good behavior - wear your mask buddy and I will come back to bed.

Cut off his supply of enabling strokes and emotion and tell him until he is again the MAN you married instead of the toddler he is acting now then you will be a wife to the man again.

On the prescription that I will be getting from David's doctor Dec. 16th. Will it tell me what kind of CPAP machine that we have to buy? How am I suppose to know what to get. Is it his doctor that I get this information from?

SuperGeeky wrote:Hang in there Judy, awareness is half the battle!!

take care,

SG

frtwome wrote:On the prescription that I will be getting from David's doctor Dec. 16th. Will it tell me what kind of CPAP machine that we have to buy? How am I suppose to know what to get. Is it his doctor that I get this information from?

Here is a document I give to all my friends when they will be visiting the sleep doctor to discuss the results of their sleep study.

Things To Ask About Your Polysomnogram (PSG) and Titration Study

1. Did I have any central apneas? How many?

2. Were there any comorbidities? What were they?

3. Did I breathe or leak through my mouth? How often? What do you recommend to prevent it?

3. Did I exhibit Positional Sleep Apnea (PSA)? Was my apnea more severe in one sleeping position as compared to others? Is my pressure requirement higher in one position as compared to others? (Often sleep apnea is more severe when sleeping on the back.)

4. Is there anything else unusual about the results?

5. How will I know my therapy is preventing apneas?

6. I am determined to own a data-capable machine and software to monitor apneas, hypopneas and mask leak. This will allow me to call your office with specific questions if I have problems with the therapy. Will you help me with the appropriate prescription?

In addition to the questions:

1. Get a copy of your PSG. It is your legal right to have one.

2. Get a copy of your CPAP prescription.

3. Make sure the prescription calls for a humidifier with the machine.

After that meeting come back here and get help from the members on which machine you should acquire. In the meantime, try to get hubbie to sleep on his side or tummy. It is not the solution, but it helps some people a little bit.

God bless you.

Welcome, I am The Spouse too, maybe the only one on this forum I can think of who has stayed the course and turned my husband's and my life around. So I TRULY know what you are going through and you've brought me to tears. Since this is such a complicated situation, I'd welcome a PM from you if you'd like, to discuss some specific personal actions I took to get my husband's attention. In Mike's case, he was more frightened than angry and rather than lash out at me he just retreated into a shell where I couldn't reach him. I remember vividly at the end of his denial stage after I just stopped "nagging" completely and when he started to ask me a few questions on his own and read some of the paperwork and seemed more reachable, I finally found the hard words that made him want to fight.(Black Spinner would be proud of me). I told him quietly that if he didn't do this, I would wake up one morning and find him dead beside me and he would leave me with that guilt for the rest of my own life that I should have done more to save him. That would be his legacy to me. For whatever reason, that seemed to reach him as nothing else I had said before did, and his next words to me were, "Let's Go". As a matter of fact, he says those same two words every night when he puts on his mask and I smile. If you think he might read them, you can print out some of my posts especially the early ones and leave them lying around. I hope I didn't overwhelm you with too much emotion but you've touched my heart. Dori

Judy
I totally agree with the poster who said your story has touched many hearts here, Mine is one,
Am thinking of you & willing this to work out well,

DSM

Judy, I recommend you videotape his nodding off at the computer, sleeping (for snoring gasping and choking), etc. and log the times he wakes up and plays on the computer, when he nods off in the middle of conversations, how many naps he takes. He doesn't know he's doing these things; all he knows is that he feels bad and you're nagging him to fix what in his mind is simple sleepiness (or so I'm guessing from the others here who say that's how they were). Take the tape with you to the doc's appt and play it for both of 'em. Hard to deny what's on the video. DoriC is so inspiring in her efforts with her beloved hubby...I wish you the same success.

I know that you're concerned about your husband... but also make sure that you're getting enough sleep. There's no way that you can look after him effectively if you're not looking after yourself as well.