Opponents of universal health care in the US

Medical care is still cheaper and of higher quality in advanced nations; how you people come up with more expensive and poor quality is beyond me.
I must attend the wrong church or something--well, NO church. Which is why some Americans can actually reason, require ethical values and calculate costs.

Incidentally, speaking of goodies for a great society: Finland's parliament recently passed a law stating that affordable wireless internet was a necessity for all citizens.
The good ol' USA is going downhill. Fast. But we can always brag that we are better off than Somalia!!

I was looking forward to joining the discussions here at CPAPTALK but I, being a small business owner, who is small enough that I will not be affected either way the bill goes, oppose healthcare reform as as written and do not see it as reform at all. Reform can be accomplished without a 2000+ page implementation of of hogwash that is nothing more than a pure power grab. I wish after my 54 years I could look at things in the 2D world of autopapdude, but I can't. I love my country too much. I find autopapdude's proclamation that all that oppose the bill do so solely because of money, VERY OFFENSIVE, yet I notice only views opposing his was censored. IMHO his original post should of been nipped quickly as it is a useless attack on good people who have a different opinon than him and has no relevancy to ASO at all. Also, since it appears to be OK to assume people's stature and status, I predict autocpapdude is bigtime UNION.

Don't feel bad, he's a rampant Liberal who posts BS so often, no one bothers to correct it anymore. It's kind of fun to confuse him with facts occasionally, but soon gets tiring. When challenged to provide substantion, he goes beserk and gets nasty. Last time he started a whole new topic apologizing for his behavior. Then, two days later retracted his apology, then deleted the post retracting it.

The "Money" rant is just the latest simplistic concept he's latched onto.

There are plenty here who don't buy into the current "reform" plan, and are fearful about what it will do.

Medicare is a disaster.....approximately $80 BILLION a year in bogus claims that they have not been able to reduce.
H1N1 shots manufacture and distribution controlled by the government.....A DISASTER
Can't control the Drug companys because of the large political contributions to politicians.

What makes you think that the government can control a public option...much less Universal Health Care??????????

Well, they've done a great job with Socialist Security, haven't they?? It's flourishing! (And, yes, ACM, it IS about the money...)

I support the Public Option. I am on Medicare and the medical service that I receive with my Medicare Plan is better and less expensive than the Private Insurance Plans that I had throughout my career. I believe that our government should provide universal health care to its citizens like all the other "advanced" nations (England/France/Canada/..) are able to do (and at lower overall cost and usually with improved medical outcomes). I've always been willing to pay my share. I fully agree with the following statements posted by another member:

I say, we pass a health care bill that covers everybody, with NO PREEXISTING CONDITIONS. Stop using all sorts of excuses of why we cannot do it, and just make it happen. As I pointed out, MONEY Is the only issue, despite the fact that excuse-itis tries to make it as if there were other substantive issues. Health care is the most important issue that Congress has dealt with since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (I bet there are a few on this board who opposed that one also).

timbalionguy wrote:By the time this is all done, our overall taxes will have increased 15 to 30 percent. We will be told what to do, what to eat, when to exercise, etc. Our alternative choices will be cut off. For instance, imagine being FORCED to get a xPAP machine through a DME, paying their ridiculous price or co-pay and having no say in what machine we get. (And they call that 'medical necessity'-- you get only the absolute minimum to do the job. It isn't important that it doesn't work as well as it could. And it will be illegal to work around the system. Some doctors and DME are doing this already, invoking the name of 'the chosen one' in defending their decision.) This bill also give the Government sweeping powers to look into our personal finances, etc. This is all plain WRONG! (Yes, some of this might not be in the bill, but it will have to come, as things like obesity are now considered 'social problems'. Therefore, in a socialistic society, the Government will control our diets to prevent obesity-- by their prescribed methods-- whether we like it or not.)

It's not just that "some of this stuff might not be in the bill." NONE of this stuff is in the bill. And I cannot imagine why anyone would think it will have to come, either. As many people have pointed out, the rest of the industrialized world has some form of universal health care legislation, often going back 50 years or more. This forum has plenty of British, Canadian, Australian, and other non-U.S. members. None of them have ever reported having their diets controlled by the government. If it has to come, why hasn't it happened in these countries?

One more question. Can anyone point to any provision in the bill that prohibits a person from buying medical equipment of his choice with his own money?

PST wrote: One more question. Can anyone point to any provision in the bill that prohibits a person from buying medical equipment of his choice with his own money?

I had to do this, and I HAVE insurance, not the cheap stuff either. But the insurance/doctor/dme struggle was too much for me. The ONLY way for me to get an "Auto" unit was to purchase myself. Ended up being cheaper than going through my insurance/doctor/dme.

LSAT wrote:Medicare is a disaster.....approximately $80 BILLION a year in bogus claims that they have not been able to reduce.
H1N1 shots manufacture and distribution controlled by the government.....A DISASTER
Can't control the Drug companys because of the large political contributions to politicians.

What makes you think that the government can control a public option...much less Universal Health Care??????????

And, lawyers associations contribute to the politicians (plus many of the politicians are lawyers).
The Insurance industry contributes to the politicians.
The medical supply industries contribute to the politicians.
The doctors associations contribute to the politicians.
(and on and on and on it goes)

Former politicians become lobbyists for many of the industries they got money from.

How ironic.......WE elect these crooks and then they take money and other perks from the various industries and then vote AGAINST what the people thought they were going there to do.

The original poster of this thread continually used the word "WE" in his posts ("WE do this" and "WE do that"). There is no "WE" (as in "We the people") anymore.......the politicians are all working for the lobbyists and special interest groups (the ones who pay them more than their salaries).

According to what I heard the other day, Senator Ben Nelson (D) from Nebraska managed to pull the public option from the bill before it was voted on. Nelson was a former Governor. And......GUESS where he made his money?

"Nelson made his name and money in the insurance industry. After graduating from law school, Nelson landed a job as assistant general counsel for Central National Insurance Group of Omaha. In 1975, he became state insurance director before going back to work for Central National Insurance as an executive vice president and eventually president.[4] He won his first elected office in 1990 when he became governor of Nebraska."
From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Nelson

The Democrats have the capabilities of torpedoing this legislation so that it never gets passed (they don't need any help from the Republicans since they control all political branches of the government). And, IF it gets passed, it won't "fix" the problems that are costing the U.S. taxpayers the most. It's just going to keep prices high and tax everybody else into oblivion.

The best solution is to vote EVERY one of those people out of office and start over. If the next batch doesn't do any better.....vote THEM out of office. Career politicians need to go the way of the dinosaur.


Den

PST wrote: Can anyone point to any provision in the bill that prohibits a person from buying medical equipment of his choice with his own money?

You mean in addition to existing prescription requirements?

Heck, we'll be required to buy medical equipment for indigents we don't even know "with our own money"...

LinkC wrote:

PST wrote: Can anyone point to any provision in the bill that prohibits a person from buying medical equipment of his choice with his own money?

You mean in addition to existing prescription requirements?

Yes. Something in the new bill. Timbalionguy seemed to be suggesting that this would change somehow.

YawnGirl wrote:

PST wrote: One more question. Can anyone point to any provision in the bill that prohibits a person from buying medical equipment of his choice with his own money?

I had to do this, and I HAVE insurance, not the cheap stuff either. But the insurance/doctor/dme struggle was too much for me. The ONLY way for me to get an "Auto" unit was to purchase myself. Ended up being cheaper than going through my insurance/doctor/dme.

Free Enterprise Capitalism At Work. If all of healthcare gave us options like cpap com that was cheaper than co-ripoff I mean co-pay. Healthcare would be affordable for All. For those "American Citizens" who legitimately can not get healthcare, I'm sure a solution other than total government takeover of healthcare can be found. However the government wants to cover "anybody here" and for procedures most of us do not want "our money" to pay for. Not saying I'm radical pro life, but I could not in good conscience allow my money to be used for abortions and I should not be made to contribute to fund them. IMHO Government can't pull it off... No Way.

Why do we have to have a 2,000 page bill to reform our health care or have universal health care? An indeed it is true, it's all about money, let's follow the money and see where it goes.

Muse-Inc wrote: Should I lose insurance because my company decided it was financially reasonable to lay me off? I don't think think anyone laidoff should lose healthcare insurance...period.

Insurance is part of your compensation package. You lose your job, you lose your salary AND your insurance. You are free to find health ins OUTSIDE your employer's plan if you like...at least for the time being!

Don't feel bad, he's a rampant Liberal who posts BS so often, no one bothers to correct it anymore. It's kind of fun to confuse him with facts occasionally, but soon gets tiring. When challenged to provide substantion, he goes beserk and gets nasty. Last time he started a whole new topic apologizing for his behavior. Then, two days later retracted his apology, then deleted the post retracting it.

The "Money" rant is just the latest simplistic concept he's latched onto.

There are plenty here who don't buy into the current "reform" plan, and are fearful about what it will do.

Don't feel bad, he's a rampant ultraconservative who thinks he's hot feces, cuz he has some penny ante engineering job. It is kinda fun to bait him with accusations, as he gets all defensive, but it is getting old, as he's so predictable with knee-jerk responses. His modus operandi is to demand "PROOF" from anybody who makes a statement with which he disagrees--like he's the Grand Imperial Poobah, worthy of getting a personal explanation???
I apologized to some nice people, who might have been offended by my bluntness. I do not apologize to Link, who enjoys the "bully" role, and obviously covers up his insecurities and inadequacies by playing that one to the hilt.

The money rant is quite accurate. People begrudge spending their tax dollars to help others-it is actually as simple as that. Then, they use invective and labels such as "socialist" so as to brand Liberals as traitors or whatever. This is what was done by the Bushies for 8 years, and is continuing now, despite the fact that Bush and his kind are out of office, and in the minority party. They are enjoying being spoilers, as they have NO ideas to contribute to the health care debate.