Opponents of universal health care in the US

Now, that's funny! Also, disagreement on somebody in/re a pertinent issue= troll? I don't think so.

KengEsq wrote:

KENGESQ occupation= ATTORNEY. I was right--doesn't want higher taxes, and got called out on it. So, who is the real troll?

I work extremely hard for my money, and I resent it being taken from me by force and used to fund programs that are not truly needed, that do not benefit everyone, or that do not reflect my religious values. Although universal health care would benefit everyone, it is not truly needed, and it is going to be expensive beyond everyone's imagination. Don't believe what Congress is telling you, we 'sheeple' are in for a serious 'fleecing' unless we take a strong stand against this Socialist madness.

What the health care system really needs is a thorough purging of the rampant greed that is nearly inherent in the current system, and the creation of wide-open competition. We also need to be able to decide our own care for ourselves (and be responsible for the consequences).

Health care is not an inalienable right. Our freedom to live without being controlled and fed upon by Government is. And this is the meaning that was written into the Declaration of Independence. Also notice that the 'pursuit of happiness' is an inalienable right, not happiness per se. 'Life' is closely associated with 'liberty'-- someone who is under Government control has given up both their life and their liberty.

By the time this is all done, our overall taxes will have increased 15 to 30 percent. We will be told what to do, what to eat, when to exercise, etc. Our alternative choices will be cut off. For instance, imagine being FORCED to get a xPAP machine through a DME, paying their ridiculous price or co-pay and having no say in what machine we get. (And they call that 'medical necessity'-- you get only the absolute minimum to do the job. It isn't important that it doesn't work as well as it could. And it will be illegal to work around the system. Some doctors and DME are doing this already, invoking the name of 'the chosen one' in defending their decision.) This bill also give the Government sweeping powers to look into our personal finances, etc. This is all plain WRONG! (Yes, some of this might not be in the bill, but it will have to come, as things like obesity are now considered 'social problems'. Therefore, in a socialistic society, the Government will control our diets to prevent obesity-- by their prescribed methods-- whether we like it or not.)

I'm still slackjawed by the OP.

If my own personal responsibility makes me greedy, then I guess I'll just have to be accountable for it and take my lumps.

By the same token, if money is really that vile to you, send me all of yours and get it over with.

By the way, I'm stepping out the door and changing my focus to Thanksgiving.

I'm thankful we live in a country where we can all express our opinions (no matter how wrong they are, autopapdude ).

I hope y'all have a great Thanksgiving. We all have plenty to be thankful for.

- Dave

Hmm. So, I am greedy because I don't want money I earn to be taken from me and given to people who did not earn my money. So, APD, can I stop by your house? I suspect your TV is better than mine, and I want it.

I deserve it.

It's my right.

timbalionguy wrote:I work extremely hard for my money, and I resent it being taken from me by force and used to fund programs that are not truly needed, that do not benefit everyone, or that do not reflect my religious values. Although universal health care would benefit everyone, it is not truly needed...

I don't disagree with you until you hit that last little bit. Not really needed? I know companies that have dismantled organizations so they can get rid of expensive employees (read had an expensive medical condition). And where does that leave that person - without ANY support.

There are way too many studies (and people you may well know), who had to declare banckruptcy due to medical bills. And the vast majority of those families had insurance. Here's one example of such a study:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2 ... study.html

Now, I don't pretend to know the best way to fix this, but SOMETHING must be done. We all have a stake in this. And in more ways than just our personal health. After all, we are defined as a people - as a country - by how we treat the least, the lost and the last.

So, as we take time to give thanks. Let's remember that giving thanks should be an active outreach to others.

Now, I don't pretend to know the best way to fix this, but SOMETHING must be done. We all have a stake in this. And in more ways than just our personal health. After all, we are defined as a people - as a country - by how we treat the least, the lost and the last.

So, as we take time to give thanks. Let's remember that giving thanks should be an active outreach to others.

_______

John, I sincerely LOVE that comment. I could not agree more. WE have a stewardship over that which we have been given. That responsibility is to share it with others, and make life better for all, not just a few. You are so right.

work extremely hard for my money, and I resent it being taken from me by force and used to fund programs that are not truly needed, that do not benefit everyone, or that do not reflect my religious values. Although universal health care would benefit everyone, it is not truly needed, and it is going to be expensive beyond everyone's imagination. Don't believe what Congress is telling you, we 'sheeple' are in for a serious 'fleecing' unless we take a strong stand against this Socialist madness.

Once again, the issue is simply MONEY. You don't want to share it, do you? It isn't how government spends it, it is that it DOES spend it for people other than yourself.

The problem IMO is we need to get rid of the "politics as usual".
How do we do that?
We elect ONLY independents into congress. Elect them for what they believe, not what party they align.

It's the ideas , not the credit for the ideas that matters. I think we have lost sight of that in the two party system today.

Face it people, Ross Perot was correct, funny looking but right about just about everything he preached .

That sucking sound was damn in loud in NC when the textile industry went to Mexico and now ABB here in Orlando .
My next car? A Ford Fusion Hybrid .. guess where its built? Mexico.

Ross Perot:
Funny guy.
SMART guy.

I say independents only for congress. We need health care, we just need a smart way to accomplish that without worrying about what party wins the mid term elections.

I say, we pass a health care bill that covers everybody, with NO PREEXISTING CONDITIONS. Stop using all sorts of excuses of why we cannot do it, and just make it happen. As I pointed out, MONEY Is the only issue, despite the fact that excuse-itis tries to make it as if there were other substantive issues. Health care is the most important issue that Congress has dealt with since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (I bet there are a few on this board who opposed that one also).

My two cents....

I have not studied the new health care bill, but I know what we have now is NOT working. We need change, but I think bureaucrats make it too hard with hidden agendas. I think we need to study the 36 countries that have BETTER HEALTH CARE THAN WE DO and choose the one that we want, (pick one out of a hat for all I care) and use that as a model for our health care plan. Sure some things will have to be changed, but we will know how it works already because another country has already worked out most of the "kinks".

This formula is from the Bill Gates "playbook" by the way. LOL

Autopapdude wrote:

work extremely hard for my money, and I resent it being taken from me by force and used to fund programs that are not truly needed, that do not benefit everyone, or that do not reflect my religious values. Although universal health care would benefit everyone, it is not truly needed, and it is going to be expensive beyond everyone's imagination. Don't believe what Congress is telling you, we 'sheeple' are in for a serious 'fleecing' unless we take a strong stand against this Socialist madness.

Once again, the issue is simply MONEY. You don't want to share it, do you? It isn't how government spends it, it is that it DOES spend it for people other than yourself.

Money is a funny thing. If you don't have enough of it, you don't eat. I wish it wasn't this way. The taxes that will result from this health care bill will cripple many people. I will probably have to get rid of the few enjoyable activities I have outside of work because there will be no money left to fund them. Many charitable organizations will fold (and they already are due to the current economic situation) because no one will be able to afford to give anymore. I want to choose who I support, and I tend to support agencies that help the whole person, and do so for religious reasons. These people are DEDICATED to making people better, not punching a time clock. (There are some-- a few-- good public health care providers.)

APD, I will be more than happy to let you pay my share of the taxes, because you seem so intent in making me pay for your health care.

Yes, John, something needs to be done to the current system-- purge the greed. Then, people and businesses will be able to afford health care again. I can remember when my (single payer)health insurance cost me $60 quarterly. Those days need to return.

There is no way on earth that Government can efficiently run a health care system. They were never meant to. The founding fathers knew they couldn't do things like this efficiently, so they limited government's power. Government has been trying to shake off that limitation ever since, because 'power feels good'.

Public health care should be an absolute last resort for people that for reasons beyond their control, cannot dig themselves out of their health care situation. And when that threshold is crossed (for instance, being permanently blind, or paraplegic, etc., they should be able to get the care they need without having to constantly justify it.

Speaking from a purely personal perspective...I was laidoff last March. Company I worked for has <20 employees here in the US, so I'm not covered under federal COBRA; however, I am covered under my State's miniCOBRA which mimics COBRA except it's only lasts for 9 months (increased from 3 moths last yr). I live in State heavily hit with unemployment so my insurance ends next month. I can't afford to buy any even if I could find a plan given that severe OSA makes me uninsurable. This does not make me happy. I must have quarterly blood tests to ensure prescriptions I am on are not damaging my kidneys or liver, they are not cheap (the Rxs or the tests); there are no alternative to these meds, tho I am investigating all alternatives before I must consider reducing or stopping them.

Should I lose insurance because my company decided it was financially reasonable to lay me off? I don't think think anyone laidoff should lose healthcare insurance...period. Do I think my former company should foot the bill until I find new employment? Doesn't seem reasonable. I think this comes under the common good that govt is dedicated to handling because this is a common situation. Now that said, I am a fervent supporter of anything that gets profit-driven insurance companies & pharma OUT of the healthcare system and those dollars invested in something else. There's a lot of other countries who have better delivery systems than ours with enough $ to pay for everyone -- are we so stupid we can't design a system that would work here?