American Airlines took my medical equipment bag

I think about eight carriers now charge severely obese passengers for two seats.

In Canada they just made that illegal (with qualifications of course)

As a matter of fact during the last fuel crisis many airlines were considering charging all passenger by weight. Like they used to do in the 1920's.

As I posted previously, the relevant law controlling passenger carry-on baggage is found in Title 14 of the US Code of Federal Regulations, (Aeronautics and Space PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS, Subpart T—Flight Operations, § 121.589 Carry-on baggage.

In a nutshell, it makes the airlines responsible to adopt and enforce their own carry-on rules consistent with the equipment they're flying and their own operating procedures.

This position is reiterated on the FAA website where it advises passengers that ultimately it is up to the airline to determine how much, if any, baggage may be carried into the cabin.

The continued reference to the TSA rules only confuses the issue. Their responsibility is security and they could care less if a passenger brought a set of barbells onboard as long as it passed the explosive swab test. They don't get to determine what gets carried aboard a plane ....... only what cannot be carried onboard. If the airline allows the passenger to carry on cpap equipment, they have confirmed it's alright with them since there's not much chance the blower can be used as a weapon.

Then we have the Department of Transportation setting guidelines that essentially warn airlines if you do allow carry-on, you better allow cpap equipment, and as long as its packed seperately, it cannot count toward a passenger's typical carry-on limit. But it also warns passengers that if they don't ask for pre-boarding assistance, if by the time they do board there is no room for their carry-on (including the assistive device) the airline does not have to ask any other passenger to remove theirs. That allows the airline to advise any passenger if there isn't room to stow their stuff they can either check it in or wait for the next flight, presumably this determination shouldn't occur until someone boarded the plane and it was clear there was no more storage room.

For the record, most airlines basic carry-on policy is one bag plus one personal item with personal item defined to be things like a purse, a lap-top bag, small backpack, camera bag, etc.

spitintheocean wrote:As I posted previously, the relevant law controlling passenger carry-on baggage is found in Title 14 of the US Code of Federal Regulations, (Aeronautics and Space PART 121—OPERATING REQUIREMENTS: DOMESTIC, FLAG, AND SUPPLEMENTAL OPERATIONS, Subpart T—Flight Operations, § 121.589 Carry-on baggage.

In a nutshell, it makes the airlines responsible to adopt and enforce their own carry-on rules consistent with the equipment they're flying and their own operating procedures.

This position is reiterated on the FAA website where it advises passengers that ultimately it is up to the airline to determine how much, if any, baggage may be carried into the cabin.

The continued reference to the TSA rules only confuses the issue. Their responsibility is security and they could care less if a passenger brought a set of barbells onboard as long as it passed the explosive swab test. They don't get to determine what gets carried aboard a plane ....... only what cannot be carried onboard. If the airline allows the passenger to carry on cpap equipment, they have confirmed it's alright with them since there's not much chance the blower can be used as a weapon.

Then we have the Department of Transportation setting guidelines that essentially warn airlines if you do allow carry-on, you better allow cpap equipment, and as long as its packed seperately, it cannot count toward a passenger's typical carry-on limit. But it also warns passengers that if they don't ask for pre-boarding assistance, if by the time they do board there is no room for their carry-on (including the assistive device) the airline does not have to ask any other passenger to remove theirs. That allows the airline to advise any passenger if there isn't room to stow their stuff they can either check it in or wait for the next flight, presumably this determination shouldn't occur until someone boarded the plane and it was clear there was no more storage room.

For the record, most airlines basic carry-on policy is one bag plus one personal item with personal item defined to be things like a purse, a lap-top bag, small backpack, camera bag, etc.

The 14 cfr regulations have been modified as shown in the link I posted.

See the info below (which ccan accessed through this website: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/):

73 FR 27614, May 13, 2008, as modified by Correction Notice of 74 FR 11469, March 18, 2009. This document includes the modifications from the Correction Notice.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

14 CFR Part 382

[Dockets OST–2004–19482; OST–2005–22298; OST–2006–23999]

[RINs 2105–AC97; 2105–AC29; 2105–AD41]


Nondiscrimination on the Basis of Disability in Air Travel

AGENCY: Department of Transportation, Office of the Secretary

ACTION: Final Rule

SUMMARY: The Department of Transportation is amending its Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) rules to apply to foreign carriers. The final rule also adds new provisions concerning passengers who use medical oxygen and passengers who are deaf or hard-of-hearing. The rule also reorganizes and updates the entire ACAA rule. The Department will respond to some matters raised in this rulemaking by issuing a subsequent supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking.

EFFECTIVE DATE: This rule is effective May 13, 2009.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Robert C. Ashby, Deputy Assistant General Counsel for Regulation and Enforcement, Department of Transportation, 1200 New Jersey Ave., SE, Room W94-302, Washington, D.C., 20590 (202) 366-9310 (voice); 202-366-7687 (TTY); bob.ashby@dot.gov. You may also contact Blane Workie, Aviation Civil Rights Compliance Branch, Office of the Assistant General Counsel for Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings, Department of Transportation, 1200 New Jersey Ave., SE, Room W98-310, Washington, D.C., 20590 (202) 366- 9345), blane.workie@dot.gov.

raylo wrote:
If you are arguing that the TSA, on their website uses the term "assistive devices" to separate out mobility devices, you may have a point.

I think whoever wrote the TSA document understood what the DOT was getting at.

raylo wrote: ...the DOT information that I quoted above defines assistive devices more clearly...

Clearly??? Are you serious?? By throwing in the "daily life" catch-all they muddy the very concept they were trying to define. "Assistive Device" is clearly meant to apply to something you will need WITH YOU in order to function in spite of your disability while on the airplane--crutches, walkers, etc. "Daily life" could be misapplied to almost ANYTHING.

"I'm a concert pianist who suffers from performance anxiety and 'daily' dress rehearsals are part of my therapy. Please stow this baby grand in the overhead...and don't you dare charge it against my carry-on limit!"

Unless you have arranged to actually USE your CPAP on the flight, it should not be considered an "Assistive Device" by any rational being. And I've seen nothing except AA's interpretation (which they are entitled to...) to the contrary. We HAVE seen where the TSA does NOT include them in a list of "Assistive Devices", but lists them in another category.

Can you carry one on? Of course! Does it count against your limit? Nope! Not unless it's packed with non-qualifying items.
I never argued any of these points you made in your tapdance around the issue.

And you are certainly free to define "assistive device" to include anything you like. Best of luck if you find a differing view at the airport...

LinkC wrote:

raylo wrote:
If you are arguing that the TSA, on their website uses the term "assistive devices" to separate out mobility devices, you may have a point.

I think whoever wrote the TSA document understood what the DOT was getting at.

raylo wrote: ...the DOT information that I quoted above defines assistive devices more clearly...

Clearly??? Are you serious?? By throwing in the "daily life" catch-all they muddy the very concept they were trying to define. "Assistive Device" is clearly meant to apply to something you will need WITH YOU in order to function in spite of your disability while on the airplane--crutches, walkers, etc. "Daily life" could be misapplied to almost ANYTHING.

Huh? Am I serious? You would have to address your question to the DOT, who seem to beleive that disabilities exist on and off planes. Capitalizing your opinions of what you think should be the interpretation doesn't change what the DOT rule is. (If you think this stuff is unclear try figuring out FMLA,ADA, and all that stuff - similar things about functuions and "reasonable accomodations.)

Unless you have arranged to actually USE your CPAP on the flight, it should not be considered an "Assistive Device" by any rational being. And I've seen nothing except AA's interpretation (which they are entitled to...) to the contrary. We HAVE seen where the TSA does NOT include them in a list of "Assistive Devices", but lists them in another category.

Can you carry one on? Of course! Does it count against your limit? Nope! Not unless it's packed with non-qualifying items.
I never argued any of these points you made in your tapdance around the issue.

I thought the issue in this thread is if you can carry on a CPAP and have it count, didn't start with a person posting their frustration dealing with that?. I have never argued any other issue. I don't care if you think it is within your definition of an assistive device or not. Some times you see a distinction made between mobility devices and other assistive devices, sometimes you don't. It is just semantics, call them airy-thingy devices if you want. I usually just call it medical equipment. Yell at the DOT if you don't like what they have written, they seem to think they are respiratory assistive devices. I haven't tapdanced about anything and I didn't write the DOT rules or other documents. I've only been trying to point out what the government and airlines say about carrying the stuff on board. If that has offended you, I apologize.

raylo wrote:It is a "fairly clear statement of general intent" that has a single exception listed.

There is more than one... you really do need to read all the explanatory material.

Cheers,

Bill

billbolton wrote:

raylo wrote:It is a "fairly clear statement of general intent" that has a single exception listed.

There is more than one... you really do need to read all the explanatory material.

Cheers,

Bill

I woould gladly read it, where are the other exceptions talked about?

raylo wrote:I woould gladly read it, where are the other exceptions talked about?

What was it about ALL that was unclear?

billbolton wrote:

raylo wrote:I woould gladly read it, where are the other exceptions talked about?

What was it about ALL that was unclear?

I have posted links to the DOT rule that was issued on May 13, 2009. I have posted links and quoted their published answer to the question:

"44. When may a bag containing an assistive device be counted towards a passenger’s carry-on bag limit?"

I guess I was hoping you would provide a link or a document that has this other explanatory material. I would very much like to read it.