Encore software still available says Respironics

Goofproof wrote:Figuring out your needs as far as diabetes is far from one test one shot.

Thx for the insight Goofproof. I didn't mean to trivialize diabetes treatment. The main point I was trying to make is comparing the complexity of data from the monitoring device itself (Encore Pro graphs/tables vs LCD readout). I can see now though that just knowing your glucose level is only the start .

GWilson wrote:FYI... I just purchased a copy of Encore Pro v1.8i at: http://www.directhomemedical.com/index- ... ducts.html

(Thanks to 6PtStar for noting this seller on 7/9/07)

Their site notes "Encore Pro Software & USB Card Reader". I received v1.8i (1.8.49), card reader, and separate driver CD for the card reader.

Thx for info, but I am a little cautious. Their website lists that they still only sell v1.6. In addition, I wrote to Direct Home Medical a couple months ago and asked if they are shipping v1.8. They replied: "Respironics no longer allows the sale of Encore Pro v1.8 online. Due to the recent surge in sales we are currently out of v1.6 as well, but we do expect a few more copies to arrive in the next week. After that we expect v1.6 to be pulled from general sale as well.".

But I am encouraged if you got v1.8 . Is the version labeled somewhere outside of the shrink wrap? In other words, if I get v1.6, I want to easily return it.

dogracer wrote:Actually, there may be something to this. Respironics put out Encore Pro 1.8i Release 2 on June 27, 2007. This is the version that DME's can download from Respironics website.

I wonder if v1.8.49 that GWilson received is the Release 2 that dogracer mentions? And BTW dogracer, what download site from Respironics? And how do I find the URL and get a login id? .

Maybe Release 2 is the new version that suppliers are now allowed to sell again? Maybe pulling v1.8 was more related to just the typical software bug issues, rather than for nefarious reasons?

I think Panhandler hit the nail absolutely on the head about liability issues being the main reason the cpap manufacturers don't want to sell their software to the end users.

Even though we know that all the settings, including pressure, can be changed on the machines themselves, a person does have to know the hoops to jump through to access the clinical menu. Easy enough to find out through the message board. But still, the manufacturers have done their CYA maneuvers to keep accessing the clinical menu from being accidentally "easy" for most people.

However, the software does allow for changing some things through the software itself -- mode of operation and pressure settings being the two "biggies." I'm not surprised that the manufacturers intend for their software to go only to doctors and DMEs.

SithLord wrote:Whenever I happen to discuss sleep disorder with people I meet or work with, I ask what machine they use and their pressure. A majority of them don't know or remember answers to these fundamental questions. I think it's these patients (not us) that Respironics wants to limit selling the software to.

I've seen the same thing, SithLord. Without exception, any person in town that I've come across who is using "cpap" does not know (or even care to know) the name of the machine or mask they are using, or what pressure they use. Not one.

I doubt if the manufacturers are the least bit worried about those people (the majority of cpap users all over the world) even wanting the software. The users who do want the software are the few, like many on this message board, who take a strong interest in learning everything we can about our own therapy and are likely to want to tweak it ourselves.

SithLord -

I was really surprised to see version 1.8i when I opened the shipping container. I was fully expecting version 1.6 from the post back on 7/9/07.

The version of the software is clearly labeled on the spine of the CD case; toward the lower edge. You will be able to verify that before you remove the shrink wrap.

Super! Just ordered it with confidence .

Nazareth wrote:OK, I'm done with my rant

I'm not!

There seems to be a dichotomy in this industry:

The "flow generator" manufacturers keep making more sophisticated machines that collect data that can be seen in reports generated by software.

They also make low-end machines which are the preference for the DME industry for profit motives.

The insurance entities, doctors, DMEs/RTs only care about compliance data.
(Because, obviously, your doctor came up with the "correct" titrated pressure and IF the DME/RT really DOES know how to get your "Full details" out of a detailed data download, they won't do it unless the doctor ordered it and will probably only send it to the doctor......who really doesn't have any faith in those reports anyway.)

SO.....for which market are these manufacturers making these sophisticated machines??? (and the respective software)

There are a FEW doctors who are "coming around" to the reporting capabilities......but not many.....YET. (I don't think it's that group)

The DMEs/RTs? Why would they want to give up more profit? (Definitely NOT that group)

That leaves YOU AND ME......the REAL users of this technology......

WE'RE the ones who are ultimately buying the machines (insurance premiums or cash).....it's OUR LIVES, OUR HEALTH, OUR THERAPY AND OUR MONEY.......but they don't want us to have the software......Hmmmmm.
Extremely contradictory if you ask me......(I know....you didn't ask)

Liability?.....it's ONLY "air".
(according to one CEO, the only way one could hurt you is if you were hit over the head with it.....and ironically HIS company started this whole fiasco of withholding software from users....in the U.S......and raising online prices)

Money?.....probably the motive.....but......

MY question is still "For whom did they make these sophisticated machines and software if only the end-users (Hoseheads) are the ones who are demanding them?"

If Puritan Bennett follows suit, we'll know it's a conspiracy.

One other question I've had is: If the software is "given away" (read that "shared")......is THAT illegal?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've had brand-new forum members with NO posts (and no profile).....PM me and ask for copies of software. When I ask for their names, addresses, what kind of equipment they have, what version of the software they're looking for, etc.......I never hear from them again.
Things like that make me suspicious. (and a little upset)

Don't get me wrong.....I don't have a problem with "sharing", but I'd prefer to think that I "know" that person a little better.

Den

Amen, Den!

Well, the insurances do too- there are many avenues of capitalizing on the results of people's greed (the new 'guidlines' that are set inplace to try to help prevent further lawsuits- cashing in on new restrictive guidelines seems to almost be an industry in itself nowadays lol

Den- You've explained it much better than I- good points and spot on- The DME's won't get the info unless Docs order it which usually means naother Doc office visit and another $100 plus, juts to get info that should be kept track of and adjusted as needed by the end users or at least done by the DME's consistently. Handing us a machine without any way to know if the settings are actually right (after all, who really sleeps the whole night during hte tests anyways? it might just be that the settings the sleep doc settles on weren't run long neough to be quite difinitive enouhg- which I know was the case in my situation) and as well, I have absolutely no idea if I'm even having apenas or how many-

I've tested the machine's ability to induce breathign again at the pressure of 12- and it seems to me that it isn't nearly enough to kickstart my breathing when I stop breathing- I know for a fact that right as I'm falling asleep that I'm having apneas and jerking awake because I didn't start breathing again and the machine couldn't induce breathing at that pressure- but I have absolutely no idea what is going on while I'm asleep, and My DME, when I asked her if there was any way to know, just shook her head and said 'not really' So either she knows that there is a way and doesn't want ot be put out to give me hte info, or she really doesn't know what she's talking about-p if hte latter (which I honestly suspect because of previous dealings with her) then WOW!

Suppose I were to have an apnea and die? or die from apnea realted health issues? What then? When I informed my DME that accessed my clinical menu after a mishap (she wouldn;t tell me how to access it myself, but I did later on after figuring it out, she claimed that they couldn't legally give that info out for liability reasons- yet, incredibly, they won't give us patient info software to track whether or not the machines are stopping hte apneas because of liability reasons? and they don';t like being put out by patients requesting hte infromation fro mthe smart cards from the DME's? Which is the greater liability? Negligence in keeping hte patient informed of their therapie's results? which could be lifesaving or life-taking? or withholding info for 'liability reasons?'

Ugggh!!!

I think there are elements of all of these factors in play, and I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist. I think there is, in a sense, a cultural issue, too. The medical field doesn't change very rapidly. It would be interesting to look at the time line on diabetes, between the time insulin therapy was first started and the time that the healthcare industry started promoting diabetes education for patients and the self-monitoring, personal involvement.

I have the sense that the industry is moving the right way, but not at the speed we'd like. We're making work-arounds, and in a sense, leading the way. I'm sure the questions I'm asking my Nurse Practitioner are educating her as much as she's educating me. She goes to conferences with equipment makers and asks them questions. I email Respironics and ask questions.

It will take a while, but how much better are we today than we would have been 5 years ago. My Remstar Auto tank is already out of date, and I'm lusting after an A-flex machine, and I've been at this only about 6 months.

So I'm not happy with the status quo, but I'm optimistic for the future. Of course part of the optimism is due to the advice and knowledge of the members of this forum, and the fact that I'm getting decent sleep at night.

Oh so true, about how slow the medical profession is to move outta the dark ages when it comes to keeping patients informed!!!

I well remember when I was having my kids in the 1960s!!! God forbid the patient should see their BP, temp, Pulse Rate when the nurse was writing it down!!! And when I sat on my bed one day reading my hospital chart and a nurse walked in the room she darn near had a heart attack, yelled at me that I could NOT see that, grabbed it outta my hands and the rest of my hospital stay my chart sat down at the nurses' desk.

That was the late beginning of my mistrust of the medical profession. (There were a few family incidents that were the true beginning). I trust the profession even less now! There are a few individuals w/in the profession I have a fair amount of trust in, but NONE of the profession, including them, completely.

Just two years ago, I was in the hospital for a few days and a nurse walked in whilst I was reading my hospital chart. We had a big to do about that. In the end they agreed I could go thru it WITH A NURSE PRESENT and it was kept down to the nurses' desk again. Ever try to catch a nurse w/the time to sit next to you whilst you go thru your hospital chart??? Ain't a gonna happen w/o a big to do stink and calling in the Patient Advocate.

Hmmm.
Read about:
FYI... I just purchased a copy of Encore Pro v1.8i at: http://www.directhomemedical.com/index- ... ducts.html

So I went to the site and tried putting 1.6 in the shopping cart to see if it would show up as 1.8

I get (which doesn't happen if I select other items for the cart):
MIVA Merchant has encountered a fatal error and is unable to continue. The following information may assist you in determining the cause of the error:

Error Code: MER-00001
Description: <b>Unknown Error</b><br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Action = ADPR<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Screen = BASK

Would the site: "www.two-factor.com" be of any help? the smart card reader only costs $24 and it works on the USB port with my XP windows computer?

Thanks to all of you guys, for being helpful always.
Susan

A relative of mine in Switzerland was eventually given an insuline pump.

The control unit is about the size of a Mars Bar, and half as thick and is connected to her bloodstream somewhere around her waist/stomach.

In order to use it properly she was give a number of teaching / training sessions in the hospital, I no longer remember if it was 4 or 7 hours of training, part of which was making absolutely sure she new what she was doing. She is a gadget oriented person, and they made sure she knew how to use it with all it's complexity.

Hopefully, such teaching sessions can be given to CPAP users eventually too, though, granted there's a problem when an oxygen and sleep deprived person trys to assimilate new info.

I suppose that sooner or later (if they are not already), insuline pumps will be connected to computers for downloading info, as many of the newer sport monitor models are.

People are sent home with APAPs set at 4 to 20 for self titration -- and when your titration is really bad - you feel like hell the next morning, or even take the mask off at night. There is enough discomfort in CPAP therapy to keep comliance very low even today.

Unless you are otherwise extremely ill, I doubt there is much harm you can do yourself with one night of wrong pressure, and you know it when you've had one of those. Its getting good therapy that is so problematic.

On the other hand, the norm of a patient feeling horrid, and being told by the DME, RT or doctor to "just go on" without treatment results being checked should disappear. It probably is slowly disappearing because machines are reporting their results on the LCD....

O.

ozij wrote:On the other hand, the norm of a patient feeling horrid, and being told by the DME, RT or doctor to "just go on" without treatment results being checked should disappear. It probably is slowly disappearing because machines are reporting their results on the LCD....

I wish I could be as optimistic, O. But I have a pessimistic feeling that very few doctors or DMEs are ever going to instruct the person to check the LCD data the next day and let them know what it says. Even after someone calls to say, "I still feel awful, I don't think this treatment is working for me." I think the person will still hear, "Well, keep trying. Sometimes it just takes time." Of course, that may be why you said, "slowly." I just think it's more slowly than slowly.

As a side note, sometimes I wonder just how seriously OSA is realllly taken even by some of the sleep professionals themselves. Let people show a drop in O2 and the medical world rushes to put them on supplemental O2 immediately. But let a person show that they can't breathe an average of 60 times an hour during sleep, and some of them have to wait several weeks to be brought back for a titration study and eventually be given a cpap machine.

But mainly, as long as DMEs toss a person a mask and when it leaks like crazy and bores a sore into the bridge of their nose tell the person, "Sorry, you can't have a new mask for 3 months or 6 months" THAT'S where the whole thing breaks down. imho.

Neither my doctor nor the DME has asked for any data. In fact, when I asked the DME how often they're going to want the card to check compliance for the insurance company, they said they rarely ever need the card for that.
(my GP keeps track of my blood glucose all the time -- which I appreciate!!! Quite a contrast!!)

I volunteered the data to the Doc because the numbers looked so ugly. She wrote a new script basically verbatim from my recommendation note.
I gave her reasonable arguments that were backed up by the data. She was rather surprised by my being so anxious to get on the treatment -- Pleased and surprised. She also knows I do my homework -- with much help from this group!!!

As a side note though, I presently have the ability to change all of my settings, but knowing the ramifications won't -- at least not without the doctor re-prescribing. I don't have any problem with not having the DME charge my insurance company $100+ for a 1 minute pressure change......But that's the Insurance company's fault - they set the numbers, the DME just takes advantage of it!!

I think the software issue is all of the arguments -- liability, billing, control -- probably all contribute.
My contention is still that they can and should write another interface for the general user -- no "write" to the card if that's what will make them feel better. It's basically a SQL database - a few new stored procedures, new reports - it can be done !!!!
But the data is important, at least to me and I know others here, to keep track of how the treatment is progressing -- or not.

I'm still trying to get James Skinners Analyzer to install

cheers
gg