Link between OSA and the "beer gut"

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:01 pm

split_city wrote:
DreamStalker wrote: split-city -

Why do you only post to your own thread?
Spit-city wrote:
My intent was not to get into a flame war.
It wasn't? Boy for an avoidance tactic that sure turned into a train wreck. I think that tactic worked about as good as your spell checker. if you scroll up a few posts:

Spit-city wrote:
Snoredog, oh Snoredog...where are you? Come out wherever you are? I thought you would have replied in a flash to the above quote!
Hell, I thought you were wanting a response, so I gave you one.

Spit-city wrote:
Doesn't mention that sleep apnoea (apnea for those who think I can't spell it right) is only caused by the tongue flopping back. I assume that the above quote is by Prof. David White? Geez, Snoredog, you better get on the phone to David White and let him know that his 30 years of research towards understanding OSA has been a waste of time because the tongue flopping back is all that he should be looking at. You'd think the guru of sleep apnea would have the same belief as you Snoredog. Oh Snoredog, where are you? Very Happy
But since you cannot spell apnea even as a 3rd year newbie, cannot spell behind, don't like my responses, about all I can says is too bad! and I'm sure the one that warned you about me probably told you I told them to stick it where the sun don't shine, but if they didn't consider it done.

David White? as in Professor Dr. David P White? Professor and leading researcher at Harvard Medical School and Mentor? and now works for Respironics as their Chief Medical Officer? Does he say anything about your belly fat theory?

http://tinyurl.com/yrw4cx

But so far, anyone can google up any of your research, I've yet to see anything new that I haven't read before (reason for prior yawning), except for that beer belly association, man I admit that one is new But if I want to know anything about sleep I'll ask SAG, he's smarter than any sleep doctor I have ever met.

You guys must not get Dr. Oz on Oprah down under, cause he has already given an explanation of that belly fat. He says it also gets around your heart and is really hard on it. I have OSA, I don't have a beer belly and I drink beer in fact I've had 2 strokes from OSA so far so I think your belly fat theory is all smoke and mirrors.

But at the top upper left, it pretty much says it all:
http://www.cpaptalk.com - A Forum For All Things CPAP

But I bet that your fellow aussie over on TAS would just love to hear about that belly fat association (seriously), ask for Mango

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:01 pm

I just posted a new thread outlying the background about my next study. I have been primarily looking at diaphragm position, diaphragm muscle activity, the activity of muscles surrounding the upper airway, effect of lung volume on the upper airway, the effect of arousal. These (at this stage), have been my main areas of interest.

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:18 pm

Snoredog wrote:
Hell, I thought you were wanting a response, so I gave you one.

Not to my original question you didn't.

Snoredog wrote: But since you cannot spell apnea even as a 3rd year newbie, cannot spell behind, don't like my responses, about all I can says is too bad! and I'm sure the one that warned you about me probably told you I told them to stick it where the sun don't shine, but if they didn't consider it done.

Read an earlier post. It's spelt APNOEA in Australia. There wasn't just one person who warned me about you. Stick it where the sun don't shine? Real mature

What's a didgeradoo by the way?

Snoredog wrote: David White? as in Professor Dr. David P White? Professor and leading researcher at Harvard Medical School and Mentor? and now works for Respironics as their Chief Medical Officer? Does he say anything about your belly fat theory?

I have presented my belly theory to David White twice. He is quite interested in the idea.

http://tinyurl.com/yrw4cx

Snoredog wrote: But so far, anyone can google up any of your research, I've yet to see anything new that I haven't read before (reason for prior yawning), except for that beer belly association, man I admit that one is new But if I want to know anything about sleep I'll ask SAG, he's smarter than any sleep doctor I have ever met.

So with all this research out there, you still believe that the tongue flopping back is the only cause of OSA?

Snoredog wrote: You guys must not get Dr. Oz on Oprah down under, cause he has already given an explanation of that belly fat. He says it also gets around your heart and is really hard on it. I have OSA, I don't have a beer belly and I drink beer in fact I've had 2 strokes from OSA so far so I think your belly fat theory is all smoke and mirrors.

You're opinion. But I keep saying there are many potential causes of OSA. I never said the belly fat is the ONLY cause now did I.

Snoredog wrote: But at the top upper left, it pretty much says it all:
http://www.cpaptalk.com - A Forum For All Things CPAP

Yes and it also has up the top "CPAP and Sleep Apnea." Furthermore, I thought it would be nice to inform OSA patients about current work. Is that a crime?

Anyway, this is ridiculous. This is getting nowhere. You have your opinion, I have mine. We will have to agree to disagree. I'm moving on from this

_________________

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:05 am

Snoredog intimidates and surely scares away posters as myself - a cpap user, CRT and RPSGT. What a shame for this wonderful site! How lucky to have so much time on his hands!

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:08 am

Anonymous wrote:Snoredog intimidates and surely scares away posters as myself - a cpap user, CRT and RPSGT. What a shame for this wonderful site! How lucky to have so much time on his hands!

I'm not surprised given the introduction he gave me. It really is a shame.

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:33 am

Anonymous wrote:Slpit-city,

Ok, if you had funding and freedom, on what areas would you be focused?
For example iwould love to see more research into neurotransmitters that control respiration.

I guess I would like to continue looking at diaphragm position and whether changes in diaphragm position impact upon airway collapsibility. Unfortunately, the techniques available to measure diaphragm position (eg. MRI, CT scanning, X-rays) are nearly impossible to conduct during sleep. The problem with a lot of research is that it is conducted whilst subjects are awake. Unfortunatley, this means we can only speculate what happens during sleep in these individuals (which is when the obstructive events occur).

My next study is using data from a nasal catheter to determine diaphragm position. However, there are problems using this technique. Validation is something we need to undertake. Even if we can assess diaphragm position, we have no idea how changes in diaphragm position impact upon airway stretch. It would be great if we could somehow measure this as well.

The other hot topic is looking at arousal threshold. Arousals can perpetuate sleep apnea cycles. Therefore, it might be beneficial to come up with a drug which increases the arousal threshold i.e. makes it harder for you to wake up. This obviously has its own problems but it's an exciting area of research.

GuestJuly · Post by **GuestJuly** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:48 pm

I am compliant on autoPAP with an AHI < 5, however my symptoms of fatigue and brain fog have shown little improvement after 6 months of treatment.

My diagnosis study showed few spontaneous arousals (SA), an index of < 4/hr. However the titration study *with PAP* showed an SA index of 30 during nonREM and 50 during REM. The AHI on PAP = 0.

Have you ever seen anything like this in the lab? If the PAP is causing the SA, then is it fruitless as far as expecting PAP treatment to improve the quality of my sleep? (very little SWS and REM and severe fragmentation).

TIA

Wulfman... · Post by **Wulfman...** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:11 pm

GuestJuly wrote:I am compliant on autoPAP with an AHI < 5, however my symptoms of fatigue and brain fog have shown little improvement after 6 months of treatment.

My diagnosis study showed few spontaneous arousals (SA), an index of < 4/hr. However the titration study *with PAP* showed an SA index of 30 during nonREM and 50 during REM. The AHI on PAP = 0.

Have you ever seen anything like this in the lab? If the PAP is causing the SA, then is it fruitless as far as expecting PAP treatment to improve the quality of my sleep? (very little SWS and REM and severe fragmentation).

TIA

What machine, mask and pressure are you using?
We hear this type of thing frequently (weekly, if not daily). In most of the cases, the person is using a nasal mask and leaking therapy air out their mouth. Another frequent problem is that their pressure is not sufficient. When you combine the two, it amounts to very little therapy and in general, exactly what you're experiencing.

Den

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:04 pm

ResMed S8 AutoSet Vantage, it's been on a range of settings, mostly between 5-10, 7 - 10, now it's on 8-10. Full face mask, leak usually within acceptable range.

During the titration study, my AHI was actually -0- at 4cm, but was titrated up to 7 at which hit some SWS and REM sleep - severely disrupted by the spontaneous arousals though.

Since I have been at it for approx 6 months, I have also tried it in CPAP mode for one week at 7, 8, and 9cm.

Thanks. Any input appreciated.

Stefernie · Post by **Stefernie** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:15 pm

OSA and a belly?

My dad needs to read this thread.

He has OSA and refuses to get a mask.

I bugged him about it today.

He told me to go out back and talk to a rock.

Stefernie · Post by **Stefernie** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:21 pm

Snoredog wrote:since I'm on a roll here, not everyone that has OSA is obese, it is not a disorder found predominately in men either, women snore worse than men

I agree. I know if I lost the 70 pounds I need to it would help, but I'd still have OSA due to my deviated septum.

Losing weight, if you even need to, helps OSA, but it isn't a cure for it.

Sergey45 · Post by **Sergey45** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:45 pm

Well, I am not sure if it is a link here, but I have both: sleep apnea and beer gut.
Sergey.

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:06 pm

Stefernie wrote:
Snoredog wrote:since I'm on a roll here, not everyone that has OSA is obese, it is not a disorder found predominately in men either, women snore worse than men
I agree. I know if I lost the 70 pounds I need to it would help, but I'd still have OSA due to my deviated septum.

Not quite sure about that. The site of collapse is at the back of the throat, not the nose. A deviated septum will likely impede your ability to breath through your nose but not cause sleep apnea

Stefernie wrote:Losing weight, if you even need to, helps OSA, but it isn't a cure for it.

Agreed. However, it has been shown in a lot of cases that weight loss does help and also eliminate OSA

Stefernie · Post by **Stefernie** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:23 pm

split_city wrote:
Stefernie wrote:
Snoredog wrote:since I'm on a roll here, not everyone that has OSA is obese, it is not a disorder found predominately in men either, women snore worse than men
I agree. I know if I lost the 70 pounds I need to it would help, but I'd still have OSA due to my deviated septum.
Not quite sure about that. The site of collapse is at the back of the throat, not the nose. A deviated septum will likely impede your ability to breath through your nose but not cause sleep apnea

Stefernie wrote:Losing weight, if you even need to, helps OSA, but it isn't a cure for it.
Agreed. However, it has been shown in a lot of cases that weight loss does help and also eliminate OSA

Really? So if I had my deviated septum fixed surgically it wouldn't help my sleep apnea? I knew there was no guarantee, but boohiss.

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:29 pm

Stefernie wrote:
Really? So if I had my deviated septum fixed surgically it wouldn't help my sleep apnea? I knew there was no guarantee, but boohiss.

I'm no surgeon, but it would unlikely cure your OSA (then again, I might be wrong). It should help you breathe easier through your nose though I'm only saying this due to my physiology background of OSA.

Most surgery to try and cure OSA is performed around the upper airway because, as I said, this is the site of collapse. However, I have seen many unsuccessful operations. In some patients, their OSA is worse following surgery!

Link between OSA and the "beer gut"

Spontaneous Arousals with PAP treatment

Re: Spontaneous Arousals with PAP treatment

Re: Spontaneous Arousals with PAP treatment

Re: Link between OSA and the "beer gut"