I'm a dentist treating myself! CPAP Results... Advice please?

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:48 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:30 pm

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:14 pm

For now, here are some instructions I got from Dr. Zaghi for my myofunctional therapy. According to him, EVERYBODY should have their whole tongue pressed up against the roof of their mouths, breathing through their nose, except when talking and eating.

I think that's BS. my tongue isn't "pressed against the roof of my mouth" it's relaxed. Trying to press it against the roof of your mouth will just result in muscle strain and over exertion.

Hmm, this may be just a matter of semantics. I meant to say that it should rest against the roof of the mouth. I may have said "pressed against" because I've been consciously trying to keep it up there. Dr. Zaghi told me that after a while it feels less like an exertion and more natural.

Well, we're all different and all that, but my tongue rests (thanks to gravity) against the bottom of my mouth, leaving a space above it. (while awake, I have no idea what it's doing when I'm asleep).

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Well, we're all different and all that, but my tongue rests (thanks to gravity) against the bottom of my mouth, leaving a space above it. (while awake, I have no idea what it's doing when I'm asleep).

I understand. Dr. Zaghi’s point was that your (and my) tongue position is detrimental to proper nasal breathing. At least for me, I notice a difference in resistance to airflow in my oropharynx when my tongue is up on the roof of my mouth versus when it’s not. How about for you?

There’s research out of Stanford showing reduction in AHI after myofunctional therapy addressing incorrect tongue posture as well, for what it’s worth.

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Well, we're all different and all that, but my tongue rests (thanks to gravity) against the bottom of my mouth, leaving a space above it. (while awake, I have no idea what it's doing when I'm asleep).

I understand. Dr. Zaghi’s point was that your (and my) tongue position is detrimental to proper nasal breathing. At least for me, I notice a difference in resistance to airflow in my oropharynx when my tongue is up on the roof of my mouth versus when it’s not. How about for you?

I don't notice any problem at all, but I'm a confirmed nose breather, the only time I start breathing through my mouth is with a fair amount of exertion.

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:56 pm

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Well, we're all different and all that, but my tongue rests (thanks to gravity) against the bottom of my mouth, leaving a space above it. (while awake, I have no idea what it's doing when I'm asleep).

I understand. Dr. Zaghi’s point was that your (and my) tongue position is detrimental to proper nasal breathing. At least for me, I notice a difference in resistance to airflow in my oropharynx when my tongue is up on the roof of my mouth versus when it’s not. How about for you?

I don't notice any problem at all, but I'm a confirmed nose breather, the only time I start breathing through my mouth is with a fair amount of exertion.

For me and my retruded upper and lower jaws, I definitely feel the difference.

Another thing to check out, in your side profile using a mirror, are the suprahyoid muscles running from your chin to your throat. Notice how those muscles "drop" when you relax your tongue versus when the whole tongue is against the roof of your mouth. The jawline becomes less defined with the tongue relaxed. These suprahyoid muscles, when active, play a role in keeping posture straight, supporting the head properly, relieving neck/shoulder pain... I don't want to play the authority card, but this is coming from someone who went to UCLA and Stanford for his studies.

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:31 pm

For me and my retruded upper and lower jaws, I definitely feel the difference.
... I don't want to play the authority card, but this is coming from someone who went to UCLA and Stanford for his studies.

I'll happily say that it's something useful for *SOME* people, but almost anytime someone makes a blanket statement like "EVERYONE blah blah blah", I get VERY suspicious.

Heck, I'll even accept "PR, you're weird"

"Heck, I'll even accept "PR, you're weird" We all know that PR but we admire you anyway.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:45 pm

I celebrate the fact that dentists are becoming more aware of sleep apnea.
Before cpap, it was not uncommon for me to sleep during dental procedures
--including a ROOT CANAL.
If my then-dentist had known, my cpap treatment would have started years earlier.
It is good that this improved education may be saving the dentists themselves.

I have also fallen asleep during a root canal

squid13 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:19 am

"Heck, I'll even accept "PR, you're weird" We all know that PR but we admire you anyway.

Awe, *blush*

I just came upon this thread and was wondering, OP, if you would mind me messaging you privately? I am two weeks into a MyTap trial, and would love to pick your brain about that and also the MyoBrace, if you're willing. This post is literally the only one that came up in a search of the board for posts about MyTap, so you seem to be the only one who might have info/insight to share.

blades wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:34 pm

I just came upon this thread and was wondering, OP, if you would mind me messaging you privately? I am two weeks into a MyTap trial, and would love to pick your brain about that and also the MyoBrace, if you're willing. This post is literally the only one that came up in a search of the board for posts about MyTap, so you seem to be the only one who might have info/insight to share.

Go for it!

nee wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:38 pm

blades wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:34 pm

I just came upon this thread and was wondering, OP, if you would mind me messaging you privately? I am two weeks into a MyTap trial, and would love to pick your brain about that and also the MyoBrace, if you're willing. This post is literally the only one that came up in a search of the board for posts about MyTap, so you seem to be the only one who might have info/insight to share.

Go for it!

Sent! Thank you in advance, and sorry it's so long!

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:57 pm

... I just googled some things, and if we go by the half-life of caffeine (5 hours) I should have 25% of the caffeine remaining in my body by the time I go to sleep.

Wait, what?

I'm going to start quitting.

I was just looking into the research on caffeine and sleep, wondering about this myself, and came across this study. This study is interesting because they measured sleep impact of caffeine ingested at 7am, which based on common mantra, should have minimal impacts at night.

To quote from the abstract:

... we administered 200 mg of caffeine at 07.10 h and analyzed the sleep stages and EEG power spectra during the subsequent night in nine healthy men. Caffeine levels in saliva decreased from a maximum of 17 mumol/l one hour after intake, to 3 mumol/l immediately prior to the sleep episode starting at 23.00 h. Compared to placebo, sleep efficiency and total sleep time were significantly reduced. EEG power density in nonREM sleep was suppressed in the 0.25-0.5 Hz band and enhanced in the frequency range of sleep spindles (11.25-12.0 Hz and 13.25-14.0 Hz). In REM sleep EEG power density was suppressed in the frequency range of 0.75-4.5 and 5.25-6.0 Hz. The data indicate that a saliva level of caffeine as low as 3 mumol/l directly affects sleep propensity or, alternatively, that the presence of caffeine in the central nervous system during the waking episode reduces the progressive increase of sleep propensity associated with wakefulness.

... although, in body of paper it does say "The sleep effects were rather small and not associated with severe disruption of sleep continuity or a deterioration of subjective sleep quality"

nee wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:42 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Well, we're all different and all that, but my tongue rests (thanks to gravity) against the bottom of my mouth, leaving a space above it. (while awake, I have no idea what it's doing when I'm asleep).

I understand. Dr. Zaghi’s point was that your (and my) tongue position is detrimental to proper nasal breathing. At least for me, I notice a difference in resistance to airflow in my oropharynx when my tongue is up on the roof of my mouth versus when it’s not. How about for you?

There’s research out of Stanford showing reduction in AHI after myofunctional therapy addressing incorrect tongue posture as well, for what it’s worth.

Dr. Zaghi is absolutely right...at least in my case. I'm a nose breather and my tongue naturally rests at the roof of my mouth at all times, except when I'm talking, eating, etc... I actually have to fight for it not to.

Interesting development - just got my WatchPAT results from 2017. Interpreted by a board certified sleep specialist who managed to miss my RDI of 13.1. Nice!


Curious what all you experts think and see in the data. I'm going to be calling to ask for the raw data.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Just curious what is your Mallampati score. A large tongue is hard to treat with CPAP even with high pressures.

BTW: I have done both MMA and genioplasty. My personal experience is they don't have any (durable) effect on sleep quality. When totally relaxed and having no muscle tone, a large tongue will always fall down to block the airway (in supine position).