Several Questions

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:41 am

When the Bleep leaks from some part coming loose we would expect the large leak to be consistent the rest of the night from the point of it coming loose unless you are waking and reattaching at some point multiple times during the night.
Think about it...if you get a hole in something the leak shouldn't change from the point of getting the hole. It should be consistent from then on.

Your leak line isn't one big huge block of consistent leak...it's up and down all night long so whatever is causing the leak is coming and going all night long.
Makes me think mouth opening since you are complaining of dry mouth a lot.

Again...was the report above a Bleep night or other mask night???? And if not the Bleep...which mask?

Tape tonight and report back tomorrow with the report image as well as which mask you used and did the tape stick in place all night or come loose at some point.

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:45 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:41 am
When the Bleep leaks from some part coming loose we would expect the large leak to be consistent the rest of the night from the point of it coming loose unless you are waking and reattaching at some point multiple times during the night.
Think about it...if you get a hole in something the leak shouldn't change from the point of getting the hole. It should be consistent from then on.

Your leak line isn't one big huge block of consistent leak...it's up and down all night long so whatever is causing the leak is coming and going all night long.
Makes me think mouth opening since you are complaining of dry mouth a lot.

Again...was the report above a Bleep night or other mask night???? And if not the Bleep...which mask?

Tape tonight and report back tomorrow with the report image as well as which mask you used and did the tape stick in place all night or come loose at some point.

The last large leak night was with the WISP mask.

I will use Bleep again tonight with tape and send you an Oscar report tomorrow.

Thanks, Pugsy

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:35 am

golfgame wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:25 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:15 am

golfgame wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:16 am
I really would like to be able to use Bleep but as I said initially when applying the ports there are generally no leaks but they develop through the night. Your thoughts on that issue?
I was unclear as to just what was happening with the Bleep....was it adhesive failure or what?
Was the bad leak report above from a Bleep night???? If not the Bleep...which mask?
Have you taped your mouth shut to totally rule out mouth leaking? That would be the first thing I did...because to fix a problem you first have to identify the problem.

You need to be way more specific when giving us information so we can best offer ideas.
My crystal ball is broken and I flunked mind reading 101 in college.
The Bleep failure is that when I install the ports they are completely void of air leaks but at some point, during the night I wake and there is then air leaking from or around the ports. Sometimes I actually thought that the attachable part was leaking where it attaches to the port. Other times there is air seeping out from under the adhesive portion.

I have tried taping with various tapes and I still show leaks in the morning report. The taping seems to make the cheeks adhering to the gums worse. I will try again and report back.

I used Bleep again on Wed night. Everything was sealed up tight and then there was an adhesive failure at about 23:30. I sealed the leak with 3M paper tape and finished the night. In addition, I taped the mouth shut with the same 3M paper tape.

Here is the Oscar report for the same period.

: Oscar.png (275.86 KiB) Viewed 1750 times

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 am

Was the paper tape you applied to your lips intact and still sticking well on the lips at the end of the night?

Tell me what your routine is for cleaning your face prior to applying the Bleep?

Is your skin oily?

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:00 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:43 am
Was the paper tape you applied to your lips intact and still sticking well on the lips at the end of the night?

Tell me what your routine is for cleaning your face prior to applying the Bleep?

Is your skin oily?

Yes, the tape was still stuck and in place, and hard to get off as well.

I use a rubbing or isopropyl alcohol to clean with and dry with a towel.

No, I do not have oily skin.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:03 am

Do you wash your face good with warm soapy water first before using the alcohol?

When you apply the adhesive ports to the skin....take your fingers and plug up each port and try to inhale and exhale and see if you can feel any air movement at all. This is to be done prior to attaching the ports to the rest of the mask.

If you are trimming much off the adhesive...don't trim at all for now.

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:09 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:03 am
Do you wash your face good with warm soapy water first before using the alcohol?

When you apply the adhesive ports to the skin....take your fingers and plug up each port and try to inhale and exhale and see if you can feel any air movement at all. This is to be done prior to attaching the ports to the rest of the mask.

If you are trimming much off the adhesive...don't trim at all for now.

I will try the warm soapy water first.

I will try the inhale/exhale test.

I am not trimming anything off the ports.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am

You are leaking about as bad with the Bleep as with the Wisp....if mouth is still totally sealed with intact tape then that leaves mask movement for the Wisp and probable adhesive failure for the Bleep as the likely culprits.
I can't help much with the Wisp....I absolutely hated that mask.

It was on my face for 90 minutes (longest 90 minutes of my life) one night and I never wanted to touch it again.

I can try to help sort out the Bleep issues though since I use it.

I found that sometimes the alcohol simply didn't clean things well enough and the only time I have ever had adhesive failure was when I was lazy and didn't wash/scrub my face good prior to the last step with the alcohol.

There is another product that can be used that is stronger than alcohol but lets see if a good pre wash scrub and then alcohol is enough before going down that road.

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:34 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am
You are leaking about as bad with the Bleep as with the Wisp....if mouth is still totally sealed with intact tape then that leaves mask movement for the Wisp and probable adhesive failure for the Bleep as the likely culprits.
I can't help much with the Wisp....I absolutely hated that mask. It was on my face for 90 minutes (longest 90 minutes of my life) one night and I never wanted to touch it again.

I can try to help sort out the Bleep issues though since I use it.

I found that sometimes the alcohol simply didn't clean things well enough and the only time I have ever had adhesive failure was when I was lazy and didn't wash/scrub my face good prior to the last step with the alcohol.

There is another product that can be used that is stronger than alcohol but lets see if a good pre wash scrub and then alcohol is enough before going down that road.

I did as you suggested and washed with soap & water prior to alcohol cleaning.

I modified the adhesive a bit by trimming off about 1/4" in order that it did not get applied to the deep cheek lines (crevices) on ea side of the nose figuring that they could be a source of some leaks. I believe that helped. I did as you suggested and blocked the ports and tried inhaling and exhaling, everything was tight, no air could be inhaled. I also taped the mouth with a different tape.

After about 4 hrs I awoke to find that the mouth tape had failed. Have you any suggestions on how to seal up the mouth that actually works and is not a hard pull to unblock in the morning? I turned off the machine and the red face was displayed. I don't know how long the mouth had been leaking. I turned the machine back on and I could feel air freely flowing but not from the adhesive around the ports. The air was a heavy downward draft from the area of the vents but much heavier than you would normally feel coming out of the vents and the machine was showing the red face. I then unhooked and blocked the ports and tried inhaling, the adhesive was still tight with no leakage. I finished the night without the machine.

As I had earlier reported I have had the mask separate a couple of times. Stuart at Bleep then sent me a new one that he taped up to stop any separation and that was the mask I was using last night.

I actually find the ports somewhat hard to attach the mask to. I feel that the ports need to be longer to aide in making the attachments.

Last nights Oscar report.

: Oscar912.png (261.36 KiB) Viewed 1697 times

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:27 am

The ports can sometimes be a bit difficult for me as well. I have a bit of arthritis and sometimes my fingers don't work so great or like I want them to. All I can tell you is ...practice, practice, practice....it will get easier.
I have a big advantage...been using the Bleep since mid December and still some nights when I check for leaks (the palm of the hand over the end of the hose checking trick) I find that I have missed a click in the port attaching.
I trim the adhesive fairly aggressively but then I am female and tiny and if I didn't the adhesive would go almost to my eyes.

I also don't go straight up my nose with the adhesive...I go more towards the ear or outer corner of my eye.

Continue with the washing of the face added to your routine prior to using the alcohol before attaching the ports.
That part of things seems to be on track.
For now let's concentrate on getting a better tape for sealing the mouth or something to help prevent the mouth from leaking so much.
The bulk of your big leaks scream mouth leak to me and not related to the mask.

Different tapes stick differently for different people. Some people tend to drool more than others and that always spells disaster for a tape seal.
When I taped way back when I first started cpap therapy I used blue painters tape...I am the queen of cheap and I had it handy so that's what I used. It sticks reasonably well and didn't take layers of skin off when I removed it. When I applied it I made a little fold down tab section on one end to make it easy to grab in the morning.
You can do that with any tape to make it easier to grab hold of to pull tape off.

You may just have to experiment with different tapes....

Also you might want to consider adding something to help keep the mouth closed so less likely to put stress on the tape.
Some people use a soft cervical collar....wouldn't be my choice as it would annoy me but I mention it as an option because some people it doesn't bug them at all.

There is one little hint that is cheap and easy to try...either used over the tape or maybe even instead of the tape.
The scunci headband trick.
viewtopic/p1089718/viewtopic.php?f=1&t= ... s#p1086296
This little trick has helped a lot of people and it's cheap and easy to try.

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:40 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:27 am
Different tapes stick differently for different people. Some people tend to drool more than others and that always spells disaster for a tape seal.
When I taped way back when I first started cpap therapy I used blue painters tape...I am the queen of cheap and I had it handy so that's what I used. It sticks reasonably well and didn't take layers of skin off when I removed it. When I applied it I made a little fold-down tab section on one end to make it easy to grab in the morning.
You can do that with any tape to make it easier to grab hold of to pull tape off.

I have used painters tape and created the tab just as you have suggested. I think I will go back to that. In addition, I have tried a head wrap but not in the fashion as described in your link.

I feel that Bleep could and should make an adjustment to the length of the port, anything to make things easier. It would not cost them much more other than a new tooling charge I wouldn't think. Maybe you have Stuart's ear? He did mention that they might start not weeding the excess adhesive off the sheets and keep it available for those that might need it to use as a patch.

How do you manage the hoseing as you sleep?

Thanks for your feedback

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:37 am

I am not a party to design changes (like the port problem you wish was different) but let me say this.... there are design changes in the works in several areas. Be patient...this stuff takes time. The Bleep is essentially the result of a single person's dream who is no different than you or I and doesn't have the deep pockets that the major brands have nor does he have unlimited funds available for R & D. This is a small start up company and even with big bucks fine tuning a mask takes time.

Send Stuart an email or message about what you want...he will listen to you as well as anyone else.

I don't do anything special with the hose...never have with any mask I have ever used. It usually gets routed around my bed pillow.
Now some people have complained about the Bleep's rather short hose and it isn't quite as flexible as some of the other short hoses out there. I rather like the short hose myself but if you think you might like it longer....there is a hack available that works great.

What kind of issues are you having with the hose? Either the Bleep hose or the long hose?????

Miss Emerita · Post by **Miss Emerita** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:50 am

You might try Somnifix tape strips. The minus is their cost. The plusses are that they stick well and yet are easy on the skin.

golfgame · Post by **golfgame** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:14 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:37 am
I am not a party to design changes (like the port problem you wish was different) but let me say this.... there are design changes in the works in several areas. Be patient...this stuff takes time. The Bleep is essentially the result of a single person's dream who is no different than you or I and doesn't have the deep pockets that the major brands have nor does he have unlimited funds available for R & D. This is a small start up company and even with big bucks fine tuning a mask takes time.

Send Stuart an email or message about what you want...he will listen to you as well as anyone else.

I don't do anything special with the hose...never have with any mask I have ever used. It usually gets routed around my bed pillow.
Now some people have complained about the Bleep's rather short hose and it isn't quite as flexible as some of the other short hoses out there. I rather like the short hose myself but if you think you might like it longer....there is a hack available that works great.

What kind of issues are you having with the hose? Either the Bleep hose or the long hose?????

I have been on CPAP for almost 2 yrs. I have to say that last night was the best night I've ever had. Normally I will wake up multiple times and have always had bad scores on the MyAir report. In addition, a nights sleep are normally 4-5 hrs with multiple awakenings. Last night I affixed and tested the ports as you recommended. I reverted to using painters tape and I also wrapped the mouth with a band I had. I slept for 7.5 hrs and only recall a slight stirring one time.

I was unable to get an Oscar report as I mistakenly out the SD card back in with it locked. However, the MyAir report showed leakage of 5/L min and 1.9 events p/hr. My sleep Dr has said before that some of my events are central so I don't know what type they were last night.

Does Oscar differentiate central vs obstructive?

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:28 am

Yes....The CA you see on the OSCAR reports are centrals...clear airway apneas which are what centrals are.
If your machine flags a central it will show up on the CA line in the Events graph.

Unlock the card and put it back in the machine and then use OSCAR. You won't get the graphs but you should get the summary numbers on the left side. They may not exactly match up to what the machine is shows on the screen because you don't have all the data files to pull from but it will be pretty close.

From what you say....I would count last night as a huge success. You slept better than I did last night.

The insomnia monster paid me a visit last night. Stress related and not apnea or cpap related.

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