palerider wrote: "plug in surge protectors are useless" (take note, uncle_bob) and the only even somewhat effective surge protector is a large expensive one at the mains connection to the dwelling.
right?
that's a much more reasonable statement.Uncle_Bob wrote:Bill I made a mistake with that statement. The correct time frame would have been since my parents purchased the property probably about 35 years ago. Obviously we have no idea what code changes were required or enforced prior to that.billbolton wrote: no codes required for updates since the day the house was built.
Somehow you know because a similar phrase (word association) was found where a completely different concept was discussed. What you should have known In layman's terms: a current source will increase voltage as necessary to maintain that current flow. Current source can conduct through blown fuses and open switches. Anything that foolishly tries to block a surge (ie 2 cm part in a plug-in protector) is simply blown through by a typically destructive surge - that three miles of sky cannot stop.palerider wrote: I did find a reference to 'current surge stopper:
Include facts that were overlooked. In a bottom right corner was the 'primary' surge protection layer. You saw that current start to approach what only does protection - earth ground. Every layer of protection is only defined by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. That ground wire from transformer is a 'primary' surge protection layer.Uncle_Bob wrote: both primary and secondary (plug in protectors) are recommended in a best possible attempt at protection,
That video also demonstrates how ineffective plug-in protectors can be if not used with a 'whole house' solution. They do not mention what we routine discovered by doing this stuff. A plug-in protector can even compromise robust protection inside an appliance if not used with properly earthed 'whole house' solution.Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ... Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.
what you fail to comprehend is that nobody cares about your rantings about whole house protection.westom wrote:more noise, like "the difference between a 'surge protector' and a 'surge protector'?"palerider wrote: I did find a reference to 'current surge stopper:
Q: What is a surge, and why do I need protection from it?
A: a 'surge' typically referred to as a 'power surge' or 'spike' is a momentary surge in voltage on your electrical line. These power surges or spikes have a very short duration of a few milliseconds or less, and can range in magnitude from hundreds to thousands of volts.
your ignorance is showing. the mains supply is not a 'constant current' power source. it's a constant voltage power supply, supplying as little or as much as your load needs.westom wrote:You do not even know what a current source is.
actually, plug in protectors are tertiary protection device in the home environment. and, do note, your argument there is with westom.Uncle_Bob wrote:palerider wrote: "plug in surge protectors are useless" (take note, uncle_bob) and the only even somewhat effective surge protector is a large expensive one at the mains connection to the dwelling.
right?
both primary and secondary (plug in protectors) are recommended in a best possible attempt at protection, so I don't think they can be useless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvGw58w4rxg
A Cutler Hammer (Eaton) protector even sells in Lowes and Home Depot for as little as $60. With installation, that is about $1 per protected appliance - for effective protection. How much must one pay for plug-in protectors on the dishwasher, refrigerator, each recharging electronics, door bell, furnace, every GFCI, TV, clocks, and the most important appliance when a surge exists - each smoke detector?palerider wrote: precious few, if any of the people on this forum are going to pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars (by the time the electricians are through with the billing) to install whole house protection
hands up, all who are going to rush out to their local electrical contractor and buy what Westom says you MUST HAVE for your dishwasher. let us know what the quote is for installation.westom wrote:How much must one pay for plug-in protectors on the dishwasher, refrigerator, each recharging electronics, door bell, furnace, every GFCI, TV, clocks, and the most important appliance when a surge exists - each smoke detector?.
Even an above youtube video exposed your misinformation. You completely swallowed those advertising lies. Since you cannot admit to their brainwashing, you do only what you understand - insult others.palerider wrote: would it kill you to cite any reliable reference sources for all your hyperbolic claims? (we can only hope.)
There's more than enough hyperbole to go around here. It's the type of thing that's a great idea to do if you're upgrading your service panel or otherwise have an electrician working on your service *and* you have space in your panel to fit it. Not something most people would consider installing but I'll tell you I'd cringe alot less on those occasions when lightning is coming down all around. I've been the guy standing at the door of the computer store waiting for opening on a Monday morning so I could get my hands on a 6 pack of NIC cards - replacements for the ones fried by a weekend lightning strike up the road from the office. Not the same situation exactly, but close enough to know I'd like dodge that bullet in future.palerider wrote:hands up, all who are going to rush out to their local electrical contractor and buy what Westom says you MUST HAVE for your dishwasher. let us know what the quote is for installation.westom wrote:How much must one pay for plug-in protectors on the dishwasher, refrigerator, each recharging electronics, door bell, furnace, every GFCI, TV, clocks, and the most important appliance when a surge exists - each smoke detector?.
Why, to listen to our learned colleague Westom, appliances must be exploding around us all the time, when was the last time your dishwasher exploded in a shower of sparks?
smoke detectors? you mean, your recommendation will protect my battery powered smoke detectors? will it protect my watch? it runs on batteries too.
would it kill you to cite any reliable reference sources for all your hyperbolic claims? (we can only hope.)
| Machine: ResMed AirSense™ 10 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
| Mask: Oracle HC452 Oral CPAP Mask |
ah, the source of your "knowledge", finally. thank you.westom wrote:Even a youtube videopalerider wrote: would it kill you to cite any reliable reference sources for all your hyperbolic claims? (we can only hope.)
hmm, explain this:westom wrote:A properly earthed 'whole house' solution comes from other companies known for integrity. With numbers (ie 50,000 amps) that even claim to protect from direct lightning strikes.
and"The air around a lightning strike is typically superheated to about 20,000 degrees Celsius or over 3 times hotter than the surface of the sun (estimated at 5,500 C). The air temperature can range from 8,000 to 30,000 degrees Celsius."
now, those quotes are just from a company selling lightning protection equipment.An average lightning strike discharges about 30,000 amperes (20,000 amperes in the UK). The current in a lightning strike typically ranges from 5,000 to 50,000 amperes depending on the strength of storm. NASA has recorded strikes of 100,000 amperes and there are other reports of strikes over 200,000 amperes.
If it did its job, then other surge damaged appliances are listed. No damage means no surge - just a blackout.Julie wrote:My machine's plugged into a 2 x 1" surge protector in a regular (grounded) outlet, and I believe it did its job.
