OT - Obamacare

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
User avatar
rd1978
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by rd1978 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:59 am

Julie wrote:People who assign 'rights' to themselves, then focus so much of their rhetoric on keeping them rather than on seeing that everyone benefits remind me of Marie Antoinette and her spectacular ignorance of everyone else's poverty, believing they all had access to cake. And people who continue to label those people socialists when they dare to strive just for parity (equality is idealistic, but not always realistic, though one should never stop trying) should begin calling the others fascists (maybe it's time)! The trouble with them is they are so paranoid, so focused on their rights - whichever ones you like - that they blunder over everyone else's rights to a decent life. What's so admirable about limiting taxation? The point of it is to give everyone (including those who through no fault of their own may not have fallen into gravy, no matter how hard or even smart they work) at least a semblance of civilized life, and if it takes a bit more at times to make that happen, well there are worse things than going without luxury for a while too - luxury too often achieved by stomping on others.
Our rights are inalienable, coming as they do from God. It is also understood that one's pursuit of happiness should never come at the expense of another, and that means living a moral life.

A major problem as I see it is the Left's insistence that success for one always and necessarily comes at someone else's expense. Or at least only with someone else's help ("You didn't build that!). This is the view of those who believe that success is a zero sum game, in other words. . . wealth, success, happiness, etc. are essentially finite and must, therefore, be distributed "fairly." This is not only incorrect, it's a dangerous world view. It leads to leaders who firmly believe that government exists to ensure a level playing field for all. They believe not in equal opportunity but in equal outcomes. There can be no winners and losers because such a system fails to recognize effort. Not being as good at something as someone else leads to poor self esteem, and we certainly can't have that.

Life is not fair. We are all equal in the eyes of God but we are not all the same. Any system that strives to ensure equality of outcomes will only result in mediocrity.
Severe (AHI 65.1) Sleep Apnea diagnosed June 2013
Began CPAP use July 10, 2013
Diagnosed with Complex SA in August
Switched to ASV in October

hyperlexis
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:56 am
Location: Illinois

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by hyperlexis » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:35 am

rd1978 wrote:
Julie wrote:People who assign 'rights' to themselves, then focus so much of their rhetoric on keeping them rather than on seeing that everyone benefits remind me of Marie Antoinette and her spectacular ignorance of everyone else's poverty, believing they all had access to cake. And people who continue to label those people socialists when they dare to strive just for parity (equality is idealistic, but not always realistic, though one should never stop trying) should begin calling the others fascists (maybe it's time)! The trouble with them is they are so paranoid, so focused on their rights - whichever ones you like - that they blunder over everyone else's rights to a decent life. What's so admirable about limiting taxation? The point of it is to give everyone (including those who through no fault of their own may not have fallen into gravy, no matter how hard or even smart they work) at least a semblance of civilized life, and if it takes a bit more at times to make that happen, well there are worse things than going without luxury for a while too - luxury too often achieved by stomping on others.
Our rights are inalienable, coming as they do from God. It is also understood that one's pursuit of happiness should never come at the expense of another, and that means living a moral life.

A major problem as I see it is the Left's insistence that success for one always and necessarily comes at someone else's expense. Or at least only with someone else's help ("You didn't build that!). This is the view of those who believe that success is a zero sum game, in other words. . . wealth, success, happiness, etc. are essentially finite and must, therefore, be distributed "fairly." This is not only incorrect, it's a dangerous world view. It leads to leaders who firmly believe that government exists to ensure a level playing field for all. They believe not in equal opportunity but in equal outcomes. There can be no winners and losers because such a system fails to recognize effort. Not being as good at something as someone else leads to poor self esteem, and we certainly can't have that.

Life is not fair. We are all equal in the eyes of God but we are not all the same. Any system that strives to ensure equality of outcomes will only result in mediocrity.

OMG that sounds like nothing but a caste system. For Gds sake all people are talking about is a right to get insurance for basic medical care so people don't suffer and die and go broke. That whole right to life thing. Amazing how these folks with their five kids scream how they want everyone to pay for their kids' free grade school educations (where is that written in the Constitution?), but that other folks' asking for basic medical care is some means of 'ensuring equality of outcomes' that will 'result in mediocrity.' Please.

User avatar
rd1978
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by rd1978 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:24 am

hyperlexis wrote:
rd1978 wrote:
Our rights are inalienable, coming as they do from God. It is also understood that one's pursuit of happiness should never come at the expense of another, and that means living a moral life.

A major problem as I see it is the Left's insistence that success for one always and necessarily comes at someone else's expense. Or at least only with someone else's help ("You didn't build that!). This is the view of those who believe that success is a zero sum game, in other words. . . wealth, success, happiness, etc. are essentially finite and must, therefore, be distributed "fairly." This is not only incorrect, it's a dangerous world view. It leads to leaders who firmly believe that government exists to ensure a level playing field for all. They believe not in equal opportunity but in equal outcomes. There can be no winners and losers because such a system fails to recognize effort. Not being as good at something as someone else leads to poor self esteem, and we certainly can't have that.

Life is not fair. We are all equal in the eyes of God but we are not all the same. Any system that strives to ensure equality of outcomes will only result in mediocrity.

OMG that sounds like nothing but a caste system. For Gds sake all people are talking about is a right to get insurance for basic medical care so people don't suffer and die and go broke. That whole right to life thing. Amazing how these folks with their five kids scream how they want everyone to pay for their kids' free grade school educations (where is that written in the Constitution?), but that other folks' asking for basic medical care is some means of 'ensuring equality of outcomes' that will 'result in mediocrity.' Please.
The conversation is about governing principles in general. Pay attention. When the government passes legislation that many believe is designed to control more than one-sixth of the US economy, it's no longer just about healthcare.
Severe (AHI 65.1) Sleep Apnea diagnosed June 2013
Began CPAP use July 10, 2013
Diagnosed with Complex SA in August
Switched to ASV in October

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 20052
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by Julie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:29 am

When I figure out what god has to do with equal access to healthcare RD you'll be the first person I call. 'God' is an invention of people to serve their own ends according to whatever they choose those to be. I don't think he or she downloaded or couriered 'rights' to anyone from on high (or low), but might be appalled at how some have forgotten about caring for others less fortunate (or less grubbing) than themselves.

User avatar
Cutnstuf
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:08 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by Cutnstuf » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:46 am

Julie wrote:When I figure out what god has to do with equal access to healthcare RD you'll be the first person I call. 'God' is an invention of people to serve their own ends according to whatever they choose those to be. I don't think he or she downloaded or couriered 'rights' to anyone from on high (or low), but might be appalled at how some have forgotten about caring for others less fortunate (or less grubbing) than themselves.
+1

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Blue Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: I think this info is correct. Cant find model #'s in the documentation.

User avatar
rd1978
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by rd1978 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:47 am

Julie wrote:When I figure out what god has to do with equal access to healthcare RD you'll be the first person I call. 'God' is an invention of people to serve their own ends according to whatever they choose those to be. I don't think he or she downloaded or couriered 'rights' to anyone from on high (or low), but might be appalled at how some have forgotten about caring for others less fortunate (or less grubbing) than themselves.
God still loves you, even if you are Canadian.
Severe (AHI 65.1) Sleep Apnea diagnosed June 2013
Began CPAP use July 10, 2013
Diagnosed with Complex SA in August
Switched to ASV in October

User avatar
Cutnstuf
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:08 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by Cutnstuf » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:03 am

"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky..."

PS: There's also no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, or Talking Snake in the Garden of Eden. Get over it!

Christianity…the belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie will grant you immortality, if you ‘symbolically’ eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can rid an evil imbedded in mans soul because some rib woman was tricked into eating a magic apple by a talking snake…yeah makes perfect sense
- unknown

Oh, and the Earth is 4.5 million years old.

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Blue Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: I think this info is correct. Cant find model #'s in the documentation.

User avatar
woodworkerjunkie
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: Tn.

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by woodworkerjunkie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:05 am

Julie wrote:People who assign 'rights' to themselves, then focus so much of their rhetoric on keeping them rather than on seeing that everyone benefits remind me of Marie Antoinette and her spectacular ignorance of everyone else's poverty, believing they all had access to cake. And people who continue to label those people socialists when they dare to strive just for parity (equality is idealistic, but not always realistic, though one should never stop trying) should begin calling the others fascists (maybe it's time)! The trouble with them is they are so paranoid, so focused on their rights - whichever ones you like - that they blunder over everyone else's rights to a decent life.
Could this possibly have a vague resemblance of maybe healthcare rights or gays and lesbians looking for marriage rights. I have no problem with anyone fighting to have laws insuring them a right to buy medical insurance and not have it based on preexisting conditions. I do have a problem with totally destroying the existing system and throwing everyone else's healthcare insurance into jeopardy, to benefit a select few! Then they want us to also pay higher taxes so they can have it at little to no cost. My wife and I pay dearly for the insurance we have, and believe me we don't have access to cake or live in luxury.

As far as marriage rights, I don't believe the government should be involved in anything to do with marriage. Marriage is a religious union between 1 man and 1 woman and a promise to God. I take my vows seriously, I have been married to my wife for 35 years. If you truly believe in God, then you understand that God condemns the gay life style, and that a christian should not condone a gay or lesbian marriage! Whatever form of governmental union the government wants to set for them, I could care less! Just don't ask me to accept the term "marriage" or "Holy matrimony" when used to unite gays or lesbians!

When it comes to "Life", there is no such thing as equality! Some baby's die at birth, while the majority live. Some are born to mothers that have them addicted to drugs before ever even seeing the world outside the womb! How are you going to give them equality? In order to be equal, all babies would have to be still born or die at birth to have "true equality"! To have "true equality", everyone would have to contribute toward taxes and pay their "fair share", no matter how little they make! Ever notice that someone doing the same job as you may make more or less money, depending on the company you work for or where you live? There will "never" be true equality in this world here on earth!

I don't assign myself rights, I, you, and everyone else has certain inalienable rights, that come from God, not government! God never once promised anyone equality or an easy life while here on earth. We are supposed to deal with the problems that life throws at us, and cope the best we can, while maintaining our trust and faith in God. Not expecting the government to take from others and giving to us, to make our lives easier. I have worked since I was 14 years old, most of those years, I have worked over 50 hours per week and up to 80 hours per week to support my family. It's never been easy, I would have loved to be home more with my kids and my wife, taken more vacations, enjoyed more time off from work. So for you to assume that I'm some rich guy not wanting to hand out my hard earned money to everyone else is insulting and infuriating! For over 20 years, my family and I had no insurance and couldn't afford it, we didn't expect everyone else to pay for us. We paid our medical bills out of our pocket, including the cost of the birth of our 2 children. It took us several years to pay it, but we did. According to your statement, everyone should give up the money they have worked hard for and give it to others, so they can have things that your family is doing without! I'm having to drive my dad's car right now, because mine is broke down and I don't have the money to fix it, maybe I should have you send me the $1200 that it's going to cost to fix my car! While your at it, add another $1000 so that I can catch up on my house payments, so that we don't get evicted and foreclosed on! I have only been able to work part time for the last 1-1/2 years, due to medical problems. Anywhere from 1 to 3 days a week, if I'm lucky. My wife works for the local school system and is just now getting back to work. Everyone has problems, but unlike a lot of people, I don't expect you, the government or anyone else to give me your money to make my life easier! So get off your high horse and quit thinking that everyone that is conservative or Republican is some greedy rich guy.

Maybe you should send your speech to the great entertainers in Hollywood, the music industry and sports world, since most of them are very liberal. While they think the corporate's should pay more in taxes, they live in 20 to 100 million dollar mansions! Rich, greedy people don't just exist in the conservatives and republican side. Look at Al Gore, he has made 100's of millions of dollars selling his phony global warming crap, while owning something like 7 houses, flying all over the world in his private jet, to give speeches about his phony crap! His house here in Tennessee has an average electric bill of over $10,000 a month, and he is seldom there. But, as american citizens we all need to cut back on the "footprints" that we are leaving on the environment. Even Democrats will lie, cheat and steal to stick money in their pocket, he has made plenty through his company that sells "carbon credits"! Little of that money goes back into the economy to fix air or water pollution, instead it goes in his pocket.
Julie wrote:What's so admirable about limiting taxation?
Oh I don't know, maybe I would like to keep what I work so hard for! If I could keep more of my money maybe I could make my house payment and fix my car. Maybe if those greedy rich people could keep a little more of their money they could develop new drugs to fight disease and illness, create new jobs for researchers to find ways to eradicate cancer and HIV! Maybe even hire more people to do research and development in the sleep apnea field, to see what causes it, how to stop it, make better devices to treat it, make more comfortable mask. But, then after spending all this money in research and development, there is "no way", these people should be able to sell their products for a profit and make back their investment, let alone make a profit! That's to much like a "free market"... capitalism, the root of all evil! Maybe if lower and median income people could keep a little more of their money, they could afford to buy new cars, appliances, tv's and cell phones, which would put people back to work making these products for them to buy! Builders building more homes and manufacturing facilities...
Julie wrote:The point of it is to give everyone (including those who through no fault of their own may not have fallen into gravy, no matter how hard or even smart they work) at least a semblance of civilized life, and if it takes a bit more at times to make that happen, well there are worse things than going without luxury for a while too - luxury too often achieved by stomping on others.
Most people understand there are people out there that have been dealt a bad hand in life, it happens! There is a lot of help out there for these people, they just have to find it! Churches, organizations, charities and other government agencies cover a lot of this, but not all. Then you have friends and family that can try to help the best that they can. But, you can't fix everything for everybody. The people that you are talking about is a very small minority in this country. Most people, even on welfare and food stamps, have it better here than some well off people in other countries. The average home has 3 Tv's, most have cell phones and internet service, food on the table and a roof over their head. Even in today's world that is considered a "civilized life" even considered "luxury" in some corners of the world! Some people, though homeless, don't want help, they want to be left alone. Some people think that the government should give them everything they want, not need, but want. Some think that they should be allowed to sponge off of other peoples money and not have to get a job, even though they are able to work. If the system was run properly, where the people that truly needed help, could get it and the deadbeats forced to go get a job, if they want a place to stay and food to eat, then I don't think you would hear an argument out of anyone! The trouble is that the government has never done a good job of policing these programs, and to much corruption has been allowed to overwhelm these programs, so that the people that really need the help are usually the last ones to receive the help!

People die every day in automobile accidents, it's a fact of life. The only way to stop it is to ban automobiles! Some things you can't change, no matter how much you want too! Oh, you can change it, but, at what dire consequences to others! Should we let the government start choosing what person should die, so that another can live?

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead for linux
Image Wish I had the energy!

User avatar
rd1978
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by rd1978 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:38 pm

Cutnstuf wrote:"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky..."

PS: There's also no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, or Talking Snake in the Garden of Eden. Get over it!

Christianity…the belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie will grant you immortality, if you ‘symbolically’ eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can rid an evil imbedded in mans soul because some rib woman was tricked into eating a magic apple by a talking snake…yeah makes perfect sense
- unknown

Oh, and the Earth is 4.5 million years old.
I feel sorry for you.
Severe (AHI 65.1) Sleep Apnea diagnosed June 2013
Began CPAP use July 10, 2013
Diagnosed with Complex SA in August
Switched to ASV in October

User avatar
woodworkerjunkie
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: Tn.

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by woodworkerjunkie » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:55 pm

For Gds sake all people are talking about is a right to get insurance for basic medical care so people don't suffer and die and go broke. That whole right to life thing.
C'mon hype, we all know that you are an attorney, and attorney's have to be more forward thinking than that! Oh, and it's God, not Gds.
OMG that sounds like nothing but a caste system.
caste
a.
an endogamous and hereditary social group limited to persons of the same rank, occupation, economic position, etc., and having mores distinguishing it from other such groups.
b.
any rigid system of social distinctions.


Of course we know lawyers would never be associated with one of these groups, that would only pertain to the greedy rich conservative republicans!
Amazing how these folks with their five kids scream how they want everyone to pay for their kids' free grade school educations (where is that written in the Constitution?)

I believe that was government assuming the role of provider, and now Obama thinks we need to help lower the cost (more taxes) of a college education for anyone that wants to go to college. So I assume you are crying foul to the president?
but that other folks' asking for basic medical care is some means of 'ensuring equality of outcomes' that will 'result in mediocrity.' Please.
Could have easily been handled through Medicare, but, that wouldn't get the results that the Democrats where wanting which is a single payer system.

By your past remarks on this board it looks as if you are one of the very lawyers chasing the money through negligence lawsuits against trucking companies and corporate liability lawsuits where the big money and insurance money is at! How many of those "Hit by a big truck" or "have you used XYZ medication in the past" ads do you guys run on TV and radio? These type of class action lawsuits are never about protecting the public from gross negligence, they are about putting money in your firms pocket! The only ones that win in these type of lawsuits are the lawyers! I wonder why lawyers and car salesmen are some of the most mistrusted people in the country, next to politicians?

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: SleepyHead for linux
Image Wish I had the energy!

ems
Posts: 2757
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:46 am

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by ems » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:00 pm

ems wrote:Well, on to at least 18 more pages of this thread...
One more page and we're half way there.

Give it up already. Liberals will never accept the Tea Party folks and their way of thinking... and vice versa. It's a waste of everyone's time!
If only the folks with sawdust for brains were as sweet and obliging and innocent as The Scarecrow! ~a friend~

User avatar
idamtnboy
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:12 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by idamtnboy » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:06 pm

Julie wrote:'God' is an invention of people to serve their own ends according to whatever they choose those to be.
Here's why I don't buy that argument, although the part, "according to whatever they choose those to be" is credible.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/178 ... %20God.pdf

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: Hose management - rubber band tied to casement window crank handle! Hey, it works! S/W is 3.13, not 3.7

User avatar
49er
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:18 am

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by 49er » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:19 pm

hyperlexis said
but that other folks' asking for basic medical care is some means of 'ensuring equality of outcomes' that will 'result in mediocrity.' Please.
woodworkerjunkie said,
Could have easily been handled through Medicare, but, that wouldn't get the results that the Democrats where wanting which is a single payer system.
Not correct as many Democrats were in favor of this but it was derailed by folks like Lieberman. Remember him? I don't remember the exact details but I do know for a fact that many Democrats were definitely in favor of it.

And in my opinion, "evil socialist" Obama didn't fight very hard for this as he was too beholden to insurance companies and big pharma.
By your past remarks on this board it looks as if you are one of the very lawyers chasing the money through negligence lawsuits against trucking companies and corporate liability lawsuits where the big money and insurance money is at! How many of those "Hit by a big truck" or "have you used XYZ medication in the past" ads do you guys run on TV and radio? These type of class action lawsuits are never about protecting the public from gross negligence, they are about putting money in your firms pocket! The only ones that win in these type of lawsuits are the lawyers! I wonder why lawyers and car salesmen are some of the most mistrusted people in the country, next to politicians?
Again, not correct as the threat of malpractice has forced hospitals to be more open to patients about what really happened which results in necessary safety changes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/17/opini ... .html?_r=0

Finally, to end on a humerous note, I broke my winning streak of not opening this thread for three straight days. That is a record for me I know some of you are probably wishing it had continued.

49er

User avatar
rd1978
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:03 am
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by rd1978 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:25 pm

49er wrote:
Finally, to end on a humerous note, I broke my winning streak of not opening this thread for three straight days. That is a record for me I know some of you are probably wishing it had continued.

49er
I wish I had your level of self-control, 49er.
Severe (AHI 65.1) Sleep Apnea diagnosed June 2013
Began CPAP use July 10, 2013
Diagnosed with Complex SA in August
Switched to ASV in October

User avatar
Cutnstuf
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:08 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: OT - Obamacare

Post by Cutnstuf » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:22 pm

rd1978 wrote:
Cutnstuf wrote:"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky..."

PS: There's also no Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, Great Pumpkin, or Talking Snake in the Garden of Eden. Get over it!

Christianity…the belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie will grant you immortality, if you ‘symbolically’ eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can rid an evil imbedded in mans soul because some rib woman was tricked into eating a magic apple by a talking snake…yeah makes perfect sense
- unknown

Oh, and the Earth is 4.5 million years old.
I feel sorry for you.
Please. That's the last thing I need or want. And do me one favor...DON'T PRAY FOR ME!!!

_________________
Mask: ComfortGel Blue Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
Additional Comments: I think this info is correct. Cant find model #'s in the documentation.