Speaking of filibuster, PST, you have once again conveniently ignored the key fact that a majority of Americans have opposed this bill from the very beginning, and remain opposed today. I'm also still waiting for you to tell us which members of Congress actually read the entire bill.PST wrote:I won't requote the whole exchange here. I challenged the assertion that the Democrats "forced" passage of the PPACA, since it passed by a majority in both houses of Congress. rd 1978 responded as follows:He says he has proved that passage of the bill was "forced," but he hasn't, and no number of exclamation marks turns an assertion into proof. In the spring of 2010, each house had adopted its own version of healthcare reform. The PPACA was the Senate version, the one that passed 60 to 39. The House version was called the Affordable Health Care for America Act. The Republicans hoped that a conference committee would adopt a compromise between the two bills, and that with the election of Scott Brown, they could prevent the Senate from voting on the compromise version because the Democrats would no longer have the 60-vote supermajority necessary to overcome the Republican's filibuster and bring the bill to a vote. However, that did not work out. Instead, the House concurred in the Senate version, and it became law. See the legislative history from the Government Printing Office. I can't think of anything more official to cite.rd1978 wrote:The Democrats did run on this; you're correct. However, with the exception of 1 Republican who voted for the bill (and he did so only after the necessary 218th vote had been cast), it was a straight party line vote in the House. And in the Senate, not one Republican voted for it and, if I recall, 39 Democrats voted against it. Nevertheless, up to that point one could not say anything was "forced." However, by the time the two bills (House and Senate) had each been passed, Scott Brown had been elected to the Senate, filling Ted Kennedy's seat and denying the Democrats the 60 seat majority needed to ensure the passage of a final bill. So, knowing the bill couldn't possibly pass, the Dems circumvented the standard process and utilized a legislative slight-of-hand to "force the bill through!!!!" Yes, I said "force!"
Not once before, during or after the passage of the bill has a majority of Americans supported this bill. Not once!!!!! The current Real Clear Politics average of the most recent polls has it 51.5% opposed to Obamacare and 39.5 in favor. Americans didn't want it before and they don't want it now. PERIOD. And before you simply respond as per usual by telling me to prove it, I just did. The ball's in your court, PST. Prove your point or, please, keep it to yourself.
I understand that this was frustrating to the opponents of the bill, but when a majority of both houses of Congress passes a bill, there is no sleight of hand. There have been accusations ever since that the bill was somehow forced through by illegitimate means, but I don't see how. It is common, but unseemly, for those who lose to accuse the other side of cheating.
And, if you were being intellectually honest, you'd acknowledge that the House had to use extraordinary means to pass the bill because it absolutely could not have been passed through the standard and customary process as prescribed by the Constitution. What Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid did was employ a parliamentary trick known as "reconciliation" that allowed them to ignore all dissenting voices and pass, against bi-partisan opposition, their bill with only 50 Democrat votes instead of the traditional 60. The reconciliation process was created in 1974 so that Congress could move quickly on budget matters. It was never intended to be used for such sweeping legislation.
By the way, the losers in all of this are the American people. This isn't a battle between Democrats and Republicans. It's a battle for the rights of Americans to be free from an increasingly abusive government that believes it knows best. More importantly, an Administration that believes achieving its goals for America are paramount, and that any and all means are justifiable including trampling the Constitution in the process.
