Taping

[chunkyfrog]

When I tape, I use tape down the center and Poli grip strips on the sides.
If got nauseous, the excess salivation before 'chucking' would probably release the poli grip--or just the 'chuck'.

[kempo]

Do tapers ride Harleys or do Harley riders tape? The great question of the day. I think I'll tape up and go ride my Ultra.

You have good taste when it comes to scoots. I got a 2010 Ultra. Great bike!

[LinkC]

The only thing I'd add to "after you determine that a serious mouth leak issue is not going away and that chin straps don't help, what is there left to do?" is... inserting and that Full Face masks don't suit you before writing "what is there left to do?"

Considering that the only confirmed CPAP-related fatal case of vomit aspiration occurred in a hospital while using a FF mask, some would conclude that the risks of both FF masks AND hospitals are far too high. Completely unsafe for us mere mortals!

[jonnybee]

Do tapers ride Harleys or do Harley riders tape? The great question of the day. I think I'll tape up and go ride my Ultra.

You have good tast when it comes to scoots. I got a 2010 Ultra. Great bike!

Ultras are also known as Geezer Glides

[archangle]

What evidence would it take to satisfy you? By your criteria it's impossible to show ANYTHING is safe.

You're making a statistical argument. You're claiming that quite a few people tape and no one has died from it.

Fine, present your evidence. However, before you pretend to be a statistical scientist, design an experiment. There are several possibilities to design this experiment. Here's one:

1) Get some volunteers to tape up. Get enough volunteers for the results to be meaningful.
2) Monitor the tapers for a number of years. Most of us will be doing CPAP for a number of years.
3) Track whenever one of the tapers dies in his sleep.
4) Whenever one of the tapers dies in his sleep, get an autopsy done by a competent medical professional who knows how to figure out the CPAP user wouldn't have died without taping.

I'm sure there are other ways to design an adequate study.

Your current statistical methodology is like asking a group of people "raise your hands if you died from taping."

It was only later after statistical studies were done that it became generally accepted that smoking causes cancer.

I think when you start calling the other party schoolyard names, you've already lost the argument.

So the precedent is to do a statistical study before declaring something unsafe. Thank you. Let us know what you find...

You're not paying attention. You do a statistical study before claiming something is SAFE. We don't allow drug companies to sell drugs until after they've been statistically tested. We don't allow them to sell untested drugs unless someone has done a statistical study proving they're dangerous. Note that I'm not trying to ban taping. I'm just wanting to warn people of the risk. You're the one who wants to keep people in the dark.

The "medical experts" say that changing your settings is dangerous. More people do that than tape! Why aren't you warning us all about the risks of that?

Actually, I have warned many times times that changing your settings can be dangerous. I don't tell people that they shouldn't do it. I tell them they should make an informed choice.

Self treating could lead to you setting your pressure too low and still having apneas. You could set the pressure too high and get central apneas. Lots of people, including me, still do it.

Are you going to become infatuated with me and start a diatribe every time I warn someone about that, too?

Lead acid batteries can leak acid or even explode. I've warned people about this. Lots of people, including me, still use them as a CPAP backup power supply.

Are you going to become infatuated with me and start a diatribe every time I warn someone about that, too?

You're going to be real busy.

[archangle]

Many people are quite happy taping despite the risks.

And I'm quite happy to drive to church on Sunday morning despite the risks, and to ride my Goldwing to join a coffee group a couple times a week despite the risks. Hell, I'm even quite content to breathe regularly despite the risks!!

If I pointed out that driving a car or riding a motorcycle is one of the leading causes of death in the US, would you accuse me of being a liar because you haven't died in an accident yet?

[archangle]

The only thing I'd add to "after you determine that a serious mouth leak issue is not going away and that chin straps don't help, what is there left to do?" is... inserting and that Full Face masks don't suit you before writing "what is there left to do?"

I would suggest that you consider the risks and benefits and make your own decision.

Why are so many people opposed to giving people the information necessary to make an informed decision?

[moresleep]

I'm sure that taping comes with some risks that should be considered, and I wouldn't suggest that anyone try taping as a first resort. But, after you determine that a serious mouth leak issue is not going away and that chin straps don't help, what is there left to do? Untreated sleep apnea is very dangerous, as we all know. Bottom line, for me it's far riskier not to tape than to tape. I use the 2" 3M Micropore/Rescare tape, and it works quite well. I do fold over flaps at the ends to make it easy to remove. For those who do not have battery backup, an alarm that sounds when the power goes off ($20 or so at Radio Shack) is a good idea.

You took the words right out of my contentedly taped-every-night mouth, moresleep.

The only thing I'd add to "after you determine that a serious mouth leak issue is not going away and that chin straps don't help, what is there left to do?" is... inserting and that Full Face masks don't suit you before writing "what is there left to do?"

True, I forgot to mention full face masks. I did try several full face masks before resorting to taping. I know some people here get along just fine with them, but they just would not work for me. At that time, I did not have facial hair but still had a terrible time with non-stop leaks. I also felt that the FFM was pushing in my lower jaw, making my apnea problems worse.

[kempo]

Do tapers ride Harleys or do Harley riders tape? The great question of the day. I think I'll tape up and go ride my Ultra.

You have good tast when it comes to scoots. I got a 2010 Ultra. Great bike!

Ultras are also known as Geezer Glides

Yep, I'm 60 and proud to be a Geezer Gliding Taper. Life is good.

[idamtnboy]

If I pointed out that driving a car or riding a motorcycle is one of the leading causes of death in the US, would you accuse me of being a liar because you haven't died in an accident yet?

No, because hard evidence is available to substantiate that claim.

[SMenasco]

Sick 'em, Archangle! (Also known as Captain Tapey, fighting the evils of MOUTH TAPING!) Keep up the good work.

[LinkC]

You're claiming that quite a few people tape and no one has died from it.

No REPORTED deaths. Is English your second language? Or is misquoting becoming a hobby?

What I claim is that the exact risk level is unknown, and never may be. But the circumstantial data we DO have indicates it is low enough that the rewards for most tapers, outweigh any risk. Further, what YOU claim as "risks" also apply equally to other common practices you ignore.

Yes, I agree potential tapers SHOULD make an informed decision. The exaggerated risks you supply constitute MISinformation. Yes, I will continue to provide food for thought to balance your nonsense. I encourage others to do the same. You provide new CPAPers here a valuable lesson on not believing everything you hear from amateurs. In that sense, your input is somewhat useful. Thank you.

(It's duly noted that you failed to supply (ONCE AGAIN!) any of the data I asked for to support your bogus claims.)

[SMenasco]

What did one piece of tape say to the other one? "If this bozo throws up on me, I'm going to kill him!" HI-YO, CAPTAIN TAPEY!

[archangle]

You're claiming that quite a few people tape and no one has died from it.

No REPORTED deaths. Is English your second language? Or is misquoting becoming a hobby?

What I claim is that the exact risk level is unknown, and never may be. But the circumstantial data we DO have indicates it is low enough that the rewards for most tapers, outweigh any risk. Further, what YOU claim as "risks" also apply equally to other common practices you ignore.

Yes, I agree potential tapers SHOULD make an informed decision. The exaggerated risks you supply constitute MISinformation. Yes, I will continue to provide food for thought to balance your nonsense. I encourage others to do the same. You provide new CPAPers here a valuable lesson on not believing everything you hear from amateurs. In that sense, your input is somewhat useful. Thank you.

(It's duly noted that you failed to supply (ONCE AGAIN!) any of the data I asked for to support your bogus claims.)

You're the one who's making statistical claims. You claim there are "No REPORTED deaths." Where did you get your data from? How many people are there in your study group? How many deaths from all causes in the study group? How were deaths in that group evaluated to determine that taping was not a factor in the death.

Where do you get the "No reported deaths" data from?

[rested gal]

Well, let's see... I did a Google search for this:
"reported deaths from tape over mouth while using CPAP"

I didn't look through ALL the links (no, didn't find one that went to a reported death) but did find this interesting little tidbit on the American Thoracic Society's webpage:
"Two head scratchers: What's causing the leak?"
http://www.thoracic.org/clinical/sleep/ ... e-leak.php

An excerpt from the "Answer" page for "Discussion case #2 (bold emphasis mine:)
Management of leak includes optimization of mask and headgear fit, comfort and seal and comfort, verifying the integrity of the circuit, and use of heated humidification, with in some instances nasal lubricant or inhaled steroid, to minimize nasal symptoms (4,8,9). Mouth leak can be improved by use of a chin strap, placement of tape or a bandage over the mouth, or use of a full face or oral interface (9). Fixed CPAP should be prescribed at the lowest effective level to minimize leak. In some cases, the addition of expiratory pressure reduction or use of auto-adjusting CPAP which lowers mean pressure may improve leak.

That article in thoracic.org was contributed by:
Isabelle Boutin, MD, Isabelle Coté, MD, and R. John Kimoff, MD, Respiratory Division & Sleep Laboratory, McGill University Health Centre, Montreal, Quebec Canada