Taping

SMenasco wrote:Okay, Archangle, so you're warning everyone about the great dangers, including death, of taping. Do you have an alternative to the extremely painful dry mouth some people suffer? I haven't noticed you offering any. If you haev an honest to goodness sure fire method of keeping my mouth shut I would really appreciate hearing it. If not, please discontinue the bunk.

I don't understand your logic. Just because taping cures dry mouth doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.

Stopping CPAP would probably cure your dry mouth. If I told people that's a dangerous alternative, would you try to stop me from warning someone not to stop?

UPPP surgery might cure you from needing CPAP and having dry mouth. I would warn anyone looking at UPPP about those risks, too.

Have you tried a full face mask?

Maybe taping is worth the risk for you. Just be aware of the risk. Do what you can to reduce the risk. Be sure you can take the tape off quickly if you need to. Be aware that you have an extra need to unmask if the power goes off. Maybe get a power off alarm. Alert your spouse to check on you if the power goes out or the CPAP stops. Maybe don't tape up during a thunderstorm. Maybe tape vertically instead of horizontally.

I might tape myself if I had unsolvable problems with mouth leakage. I would want to do so with full knowledge of the risks. I'd try every possible alternative first.

archangle wrote: No, I will not "give it a rest." I will not stand idly by and let people recommend something potentially lethal without warning them of the risks. Even if they choose to do it anyway, perhaps they will use extra caution and avoid problems.

Thank you.

It's one thing if people choose to do this because they think the benefits outweigh the risks. I guess it's even OK if they decide there are no risks. But no one should do it without knowing that there is some controversy about it. I'm very glad you spoke up.

It really wears me out to respond to those whose lot in life is to lecture others. PLEASE let me commit tapicide if it is of my choosing.

SMenasco wrote:PLEASE let me commit tapicide if it is of my choosing.

Since you asked, permission granted for SMenasco to make an informed choice to tape. I hope taping works out well for you. Many people are quite happy taping despite the risks.

SMenasco wrote:It really wears me out to respond to those whose lot in life is to lecture others.

If it wears you out, why do you keep responding? Why is it your lot in life to keep others in the dark about a risky behavior you engage in? Why do some people doing risky things get ticked off when someone else tries to inform others about the risks?

Please tell me how my warning newbies about the risks of taping keeps SMenasco from taping.

Or for that matter, how my warning about the risks of taping keeps others from making an informed decision to tape anyway.

I have also warned people about the risks of getting surgery for apnea and suggested that everyone try CPAP before UPPP surgery. Am I somehow doing harm to the person considering UPPP? Have I somehow denied him the right to make his own informed choice? Have I somehow done harm to someone who has had UPPP and is happy with the results?

Piss off, you snivelling whiney little twit. I'm bored with you an your supposed logic.

May I suggest you use the "Foe" button? I think you won't see my posts if you select that.

Click on my ID, then "add foe."

archangle wrote:how my warning about the risks of taping keeps others from making an informed decision to tape anyway.

Perhaps because your imagined risks aren't real.

1. Power outage: One can breathe just fine thru a "dead" machine, for way more than long enough to wake up and remove the tape and/or nasal mask. Still waiting for you to cite a single fatality related to taping...

2. Vomit aspiration: That would be a problem with either FF masks or tape. Not a risk specific to taping. When was the last time you vomited in your sleep anyway?

Your "warnings" foster MISINFORMED decisions based on imaginary risks and inaccurate fearmongering.

EDIT: Any of us rational folks using the FOE button would allow you to spout your garbage without accurate rebuttal. However, YOU could Foe US, and continue misinforming folks in blissful ignorance...

SMenasco wrote:It really wears me out to respond to those whose lot in life is to lecture others. PLEASE let me commit tapicide if it is of my choosing.

Now that's funny right there SMensco. You almost made me spill my drink all over the laptop. archangle's mission in life is to warn people about taping an yet he can not point to one, not one example of tapicide.

I have been taping for over a year with not one problem what so ever. As a matter of fact I was so tired last night I went to sleep when my head hit the pillow and forgot to turn on the machine. I woke up an hour later when my son came home and turned on the hall light. That's when I realized the machine was off. So tape away and get the therapy you need.

kempo wrote:I have been taping for over a year with not one problem what so ever. As a matter of fact I was so tired last night I went to sleep when my head hit the pillow and forgot to turn on the machine. I woke up an hour later when my son came home and turned on the hall light. That's when I realized the machine was off. So tape away and get the therapy you need.

Translation: "I did it and didn't die, so therefore it's not dangerous."

Very good argument. Works for seatbelts or drunk driving as well.

Archangle, I had a premonition that tonight I will wake up smelling vile exhaled lung gases, throwing up all over my CO2 exhaled breath during a power outage, filling up my nasal pillows since the tape wou't let me hurl it out naturally. I ripped and clawed at the end of the dreadful blue scourge called painter's tape, but couldn't pull it loose. I dreamed I had a horribly boring death, listening to a voice saying over and over again, "DON'T TAPE, DON"T TAPE, YOU IDIOT, DON"T TAPE!" along with the sound of 12 cm H2O air being forcibly pumped, whistling through my brand new ClimateLine heated hose. My very last thoughts before being transported into the arms of the grim reaper were "I certainly wish I had listened to the internationally famous, death defying purveyor of Cpap habits, knowledge, and generally accepted correct practices, Dr. Archangle. Even with all the terrible things that happened, I am thankful I didn't get struck by lightning at the same time, a rather small consolation, don't you think? So, after this sobering revelation, as a last request before my demise, I only have one request. As your humble transformed servant, will you be my friend?

archangle wrote:

kempo wrote:I have been taping for over a year with not one problem what so ever. As a matter of fact I was so tired last night I went to sleep when my head hit the pillow and forgot to turn on the machine. I woke up an hour later when my son came home and turned on the hall light. That's when I realized the machine was off. So tape away and get the therapy you need.

Translation: "I did it and didn't die, so therefore it's not dangerous."

Very good argument. Works for seatbelts or drunk driving as well.

And you always have to come back with some stupid snarky remark. We all know someone who died in an automobile accident because of none use of seat belts or alcohol. It's a fact. We see it in the news papers and on television. But "tapicide"? No one, not even you can give us an example of that because it is not true. It is a figment of your imagination.

What is so sad is you are scaring people from trying the use of tape to get the therapy they need. It's all blowing out their mouth. They might as well turn off their machine and throw it in the trash can.

Archy, you are not helping anyone with your taping rant!

Someone needed to say this, so there, I said it!

archangle wrote: Translation: "I did it and didn't die, so therefore it's not dangerous."
Very good argument. Works for seatbelts or drunk driving as well.

Seriously now, do you REALLY think that's a legitimate comparison? Really?

If so, you are MUCH less intelligent than I thought. (Maybe misspelling your own username should have been clue...)

If not, you are being intentionally disingenuous when your chicken little "risks" are debunked for all to see. In my book, that's even worse!

Your response to being exposed as consistently wrong is "Foe me"??? Sad...

Do tapers ride Harleys or do Harley riders tape? The great question of the day. I think I'll tape up and go ride my Ultra.

SMenasco wrote:Do tapers ride Harleys or do Harley riders tape?

Harley riders super-glue....

LinkC wrote:

archangle wrote: Translation: "I did it and didn't die, so therefore it's not dangerous."
Very good argument. Works for seatbelts or drunk driving as well.

Seriously now, do you REALLY think that's a legitimate comparison? Really?

If so, you are MUCH less intelligent than I thought. (Maybe misspelling your own username should have been clue...)

If not, you are being intentionally disingenuous when your chicken little "risks" are debunked for all to see. In my book, that's even worse!

Your response to being exposed as consistently wrong is "Foe me"??? Sad...

No, you are the one being deliberately disingenuous.

No one has done ANY debunking other than presenting the argument "I did it and I haven't died yet." That's an incredibly foolish argument. The point about drunk driving or seatbelts is a very clear argument that shows how foolish the argument is that "I did it and I didn't die."

We KNOW that drunk driving and not using seatbelts increase the risk of death in a car accident. That makes it very clear how foolish the "I did it and haven't died yet" argument is.

Cigarette smokers used to use the same argument whenever someone said smoking was bad for their health. "My grandpa smoked a pack a day for all his life and he's 80 years old." It was only later after statistical studies were done that it became generally accepted that smoking causes cancer. The smokers continued to be adamant about smoking not being dangerous for quite a while. Some still deny the risk.

No one has done a large scale controlled study of the risks of taping. If one of us apneacs die in our sleep with tape on our mouth, do you know that any coroners will investigate any further than figuring out it's not foul play? I presume that some tapers die in their sleep just like other CPAPers do. Can you cite any studies done on these fatalities to determine whether taping was a factor in the death?

The burden of proof is on the person claiming something is safe despite the warnings from the medical experts. The burden of proof is not on someone who warns about the potential risks.

Assume a taper did die in his sleep from taping. It would be unlikely for his survivors to figure out that taping did it. Then it would be unlikely one of his survivors would know about this board and post about it. In the extremely unlikely event that his widow posted "taping killed my husband when the power went out?" what would you say? I bet you'd argue that he died from his apnea because of the power failure and he would have died even if he hadn't been taping. After all, you yourself tape all the time and haven't died yet.

If taping isn't potentially dangerous, why are all full face masks equipped with "anti-asphyxia" valves? Note the word "asphyxia." Taping your mouth shut with a nasal mask is sort of like having a full face mask with no anti-asphyxia valve.

If someone wanted to use a full face mask without an anti-aphyxia valve, would you object to me warning people that the valve is there to reduce the risk of asphyxia?

By the way, thanks to all the taping risk deniers. Hopefully a number of newbies who might have skimmed over the one post warning I post earlier have now given more thought to the issues involved and are now better equipped to make an informed decision about the risks.