You can't die from Sleep Apnea

[socknitster]

When I pointed out the correlation between SA and strokes, they were quick to point out that it was a cholesterol clot that caused the stroke. Aren't all these things related in some way, shape or form anyway?

Yes, you are correct--though it is a circuitous link. When you are hypoxic (deprived of oxygen from OSA) your body sends out all kinds of stress hormones, one of which is a new blood factor that has only recently been discovered and is in trials to see if it can be used to screen for osa. This blood factor is known to contribute to thickening and clotting of blood I believe. I wish I were as organized as RestedGal so I could give you more info or a link or something. I'm only relying on my Clif Claven-esque memory here. But yes, they are definitely related according to what I have read.

I hope he feels better soon and gets his sleep study asap before any more damage is done!

jen

[krousseau]

Do a search on SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome)--and look at the info you find.

[socknitster]

Good point Krousseau,

SIDS is basically osa or central apnea isn't it, depending on the circumstance? I know it is every mother's worste nightmare. When my boy was an infant and he started consolidating sleep after breastfeeding through the night on a fairly consistent schedule, I would FREAK out when I woke up with very sore and milk-full breasts (sorry, boys if that is TMI)hours after a normal feeding time. I would FLY to his room to make sure he was breathing. Ironic, since I was the one who wasn't breathing properly in my sleep and the panic I felt was probably partly contributed to by the undiagnosed osa I myself had.

This is why you aren't allowed any blankies or stuffed animals or fluffy stuff in the crib until 18 months or a year or something. It is baffling that the "back to sleep" campaign has cut the risk of SIDS in half after 10 or more years. But it probably has more to do with the rebreathing of CO2 when their on their tummies? I guess no one knows for sure.

Jen

[cg30sailor]

I have breifly watched some of her shows and she is an irratant. Maybe she should ask the widow of the late great Reggie White of the Green Bay P
ackers about sleep apnea. Part of his cause of death was sleep apnea.
As for CNN(Clinton News network),I steer clear.

[split_city]

It does strike me in an odd way how there seems to be an element of torture in all of these apnea studies--tight belts, inhaling capsaicin (read: hot pepper juice!). Now, I'm guessing that is just an emotional rxn and that a real effort is made to minimize discomfort for the test subject. I.e. I have no way of knowing the true level of discomfort due to the dilution factor of the capsaicin--I'm sure it wasn't at a level of mace!

It may seem as though we like to torture our subjects given the type of studies we run. However, we have performed these types of studies many times without and major difficulties. The Ethics Committee wouldn't allow us to conduct any studies which would jeapodise the safety of our subjects. Nevertheless, nasal catheters, abdominal belts, intramuscular wires, and capsaicin may make people feel a little worried, but the equipment generally doesn't bother anyone once they are all in place. I've experienced it all (except the wires). These wires are as thin as human hair. By all accounts, none of our patients have experienced any pain during the insertion (because we anesthetise the area) nor do they bother the subjects during night.

The capsaicin study was conducted in university students (including me). The solution is quite dilute, but enough to eventually make you cough. It wasn't that bad. The hardest part was breathing at a certain ventilatory rate for 30mins prior to the administration of the capsaicin. It was hard because it was boring!

However, that said, the results of the capsaicin study are IMPORTANT to know because in my opinion there is a relation there to GERD. Many apnea patients relate a concommittal occurence of lung issues (just my observataion, anecdotal only), which I believe may be caused by inhalation of stomach acid during apnea events. Combined with a lower cough reflex and MY GOODNESS you have a disasterous situation where tons of damage may occurr.

What type of lung issues?

Just curious, S-C how much anatomy did you have to take in your Ph.D. program?

Not really a lot of anatomy apart from upper airway anatomy, a little bit of lung anatomy and diaphragm stuff. All my learning for this is from books. I haven't cut up dead bodies to look at the airways! Apart from that, I did a bit of dissection work in my undergraduate degree; heart, lungs, rats, cockroaches...but no humans.

However, I'm very interested in sleep research for obvious reasons and I've been kicking around the idea of going back to school when all my little ones go to school themselves. Never to old for that and I need a new career and it would be nice to make a difference for the better.

I totally agree. If you have the passion to do it, why not!

[socknitster]

socknitster wrote:
However, that said, the results of the capsaicin study are IMPORTANT to know because in my opinion there is a relation there to GERD. Many apnea patients relate a concommittal occurence of lung issues (just my observataion, anecdotal only), which I believe may be caused by inhalation of stomach acid during apnea events. Combined with a lower cough reflex and MY GOODNESS you have a disasterous situation where tons of damage may occurr.

Split_City wrote:
What type of lung issues?

This is purely anecdotal from reading about other's experiences here, but I have noticed that many have mentioned severe asthma, copd and lots and lots of us have GERD.

I myself had more coughs and throat infections over the last 2 years than ever in my life before, except as a very young child when we all get them of course.

Perhaps I am totally off base, but if the lower esophogeal sphincter is compromised by GERD (which is caused by apnea or causes apnea, who knows--it seems to go both ways) AND you add in a lowered cough response to irritants, then during an apnea event when you take that gasping breath it seems clear to me that acid backing up in the esophogus could so easily go into the very delicate and vulnerable lung tissue causing at the least inflammation and at worste severe damage and necrosis. Especially if you aren't immediately coughing it up!

I think the link between GERD and apnea is critical to understanding a lot about how this disease progresses. I think ending up with asthma and/or copd is an end result of years of apnea events, just like the chronic nightime hypoxia causes high blood pressure, weight gain, heart damage etc.

I personally believe that this is a SYSTEMIC disorder and affects many organ systems in different ways. The brain chemistry goes off--mood disorders begin and the risk of stroke definitely increases over time. Heart and lungs can be affected as I mentioned, the immune response seems to be blunted (my opinion only, nothing to back that up). GERD is involved somehow so there is digestion. Exhaustion causes weight gain which affects the circulatory system and the heart and more hormones leading to diabetes, blood pressure elevations.

Anyway, obviously there is a lot to learn about how this affects all of us, ya know? Didn't mean to go on a diatribe!

Interesting about the anatomy thing. I didn't know how that went when your Ph.D. is in a clinical setting. I have a B.A. in Biology so I could theoretically start a Ph.D. program at some point. I haven't found something to be passionate enough to study in that minutia so far. This could be it. It will depend on where we are and what is available when the timing is right. Obviously I won't be able to leave my family to go to the nearest school doing this kind of research. Whatever I study will have to be locally available. A friend of mine is working on a library advanced degree online now so anything is possible in a few years!

jen

[ozij]

I myself had more coughs and throat infections over the last 2 years than ever in my life before, except as a very young child when we all get them of course.

Any possibe connection between your throat infections and the very young child (no longer baby) running around your house these last two years?

O.

[jennmary]

I have had severe asthma my whole life, as well as GERD. My pediatrition diagnosed me with reflux as an infant. I have had throat infections at least 4 times a year my entire life. I do what I can to prevent it....but they always come back. I also have severe allergies that seem to get worse every year. In addition.....I am homozygous for MTHFR, and have had 2 incidents involving deep vein thrombosis. Ok....most of that in no way relates to what we are talking about....but to me what Jen is saying makes a lot of sense. My mom says I was waking up gasping for breath since childhood. She remembers times when I was a baby that I stopped breathing and turned blue in my sleep. She used to sleep with her hand in my bassinet so she could feel me breathing. Finally at 26 my body just cant take anymore. I am sure I could push it a little further. I am sure if I hadnt been diagnosed then by the time I was 30 my blood pressure would have shot up and it wouldnt surprise me if I had a heart attack at 40. My grandfather had his first at 30.

This is by far NOT an all inclusive list of my medical conditions...but its a start. I dont doubt that you could inhale stomach acid at night.

[socknitster]

I myself had more coughs and throat infections over the last 2 years than ever in my life before, except as a very young child when we all get them of course.

Any possibe connection between your throat infections and the very young child (no longer baby) running around your house these last two years?

O.

O, I would think that too, except that I had two bouts of strep over the winter this year, and he was tested at the same time just in case but he never had it! Neither did my husband get it.

And he got most of his infections around age one, right after weaning. He has actually tapered off and is mostly resistant to much of what is going around--pretty healthy child! I didn't get much when he was one, even though he was a non-stop cold--but I have been getting a bunch the last two winters and he has been overall healthier than me. Go figure!

Jen

[ozij]

Go figure indeed...
O.

[socknitster]

Only thing I can think is my throat was irritated from the silent GERD and apnea, causing tiny places for germs to settle, which could have been picked up anywhere--touched a shopping cart handle lately? (I always wash as soon as i get home, but you know what I mean.)

Jen

[Guest]

Again fro the excellent book
"Sleep Thief" it appears that lack of sleep lowers the bodies immune response making diseases more frequent.

It now appears that the deaths that can be caused in experimental animals by sleep deprivation are due to infections, and by common infection that normally the animal would readily fight off.