You can't die from Sleep Apnea

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:43 pm

Windfall wrote: All,

Please forgive me, I'm sleep deprived and cranky. It took months for me to stop lurking and start interacting. Thank you all for the education, sense of community, understanding and support you've provided.

split_city,

I appreciate the clarification that the main area of your work is looking at mechanisms to perhaps explain why OSA is more common in overweight/obese males. Yes, I want answers to many of the WHY questions you posed earlier, particularly if it could help me understand WHY this is happening to me.

But since it's not always about me, I need to consider how my remarks impact other people (intent versus impact) and approach people non-defensively. People will usually reflect back to me what I first give to them.

In short, IMHO, you need to work on your bedside manner.

split_city wrote: You say these co-morbidities were brought upon by apnea. How do you know they weren't simply brought on by obesity? There are many obese individuals who don't suffer OSA but have these co-morbidities.

split_city wrote: But I'm just focussing on overweight people for the point of this discussion..

split_city wrote: That's just being silly.

split_city wrote: That's just being silly now.

Windfall wrote: Please stop dismissing the opinions and feelings of others.
Thanks for your input.

In regards to the comments above, they had nothing to do with me dismissing the opinions of the other posters. Furthermore, I was being accused of stuff I didn't say.

Jem said this:

"So, I guess we should all just hang up our hoses, because apnea isn't hurting us anyway?"

I said that was silly because it was being sarcastic

Another:

"My AHI was at 42. So I guess all of the equipment, the sleep tech, the nurse practitioner, the sleep doc and my GP are all wrong and you are right. You must be the smartest man alive.....forget medical school....we should crown you the almighty SA king. Wanna do a UPPP on me? Maybe write me a new script for an auto or nifty bipap machine"

I said that was being silly because again, it was a sarcastic comment

Windfall wrote:I'm hopeful that your research will eventually help me and others who are blessed to experience the whacked world of sleep disorders. But, in the meantime, it would help us (ok, make that me since it's really all about me) understand your point of view if you would be more gracious in accepting our (my) point of view.
Thank you.

Thankyou for your well wishes. I have listened to others on here and provided my ideas. We all have our opinions. But remember, I wasn't the one who started another thread to lash out on a poster, nor am I the one which has been making untruthful accusations

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap, AHI, auto

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): bipap, AHI, auto

jennmary · Post by **jennmary** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:00 am

You are so right virgo. (Im a virgo too. )

It is a waste of time trying to explain what sleep apnea does to a person who does not have sleep apnea. It is like knowing that breaking your leg hurts versus actually breaking your leg and feeling that pain.....or knowing that child birth hurts and actually having a baby. I dont think someone can fully understand what sleep apnea does to you until you have been there yourself.

Still.....I think Nancy should off the air.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:05 am

Snoozeomatic wrote:Sounds like Nancy needs to make sure her brain is fully engaged before she puts her mouth in motion.

Best comment yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roster · Post by **roster** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:31 am

Anonymous wrote:...............

I think I can say that it would be best to simply say that Nancy Grace had no business making such an inaccurate, off base, flip remark ...........

Inaccurate, off base, flip remarks are not their business? My impression: That is the type of business these TV programs are in regardless of what subject they are covering.

oceanpearl · Post by **oceanpearl** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:48 am

The one thing that I might add is that my Sleep (Pulmonary) doctor told me that sleep apnea occurs mostly in everweight prople. The R/T wh did my first sllep study also said that he was suprised that a person of my size and shape would have apnea. I wal also told by myinternist that if I lost 15 pounds, the apnea MIGHT go away, I lost 25 lbs and it didn't go away.
In my opinion anyone who thinks that obesity doesn't play a major part in sleep apnea is living in LA La land.
There are some of us who don't fit the obesity mold. It was found that my windpipe at the base of the tongue is about half the size of a normal person's windpipe.
We all need to go back and study the definition of SLEEP APNEA!

bwd · Post by **bwd** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:19 am

I have been following the discussion regarding her comment. I think some are missing the point. The issue is not whether you can die directly from SA but rather her dismissive comments that suggest that worrying about SA is silly and nonsense. For those looking for reasons not use their CPAP, Nancy Grace just made them feel a lot better about not treating their silly disease. Her view is that why worry about it, its just snoring. I think we should not get caught up in semantics. SA is a serious disease. Nancy Grace really is an irresponsible person who causes a great deal of damage. I also sent a message to CNN.

Patrick A · Post by **Patrick A** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:37 am

Anonymous wrote:
...............

I think I can say that it would be best to simply say that Nancy Grace had no business making such an inaccurate, off base, flip remark ...........

Snoozeomatic wrote:
Sounds like Nancy needs to make sure her brain is fully engaged before she puts her mouth in motion.

I think that Nancy Grace falls into the following category;
Politicians are a lot like diapers, They should be changed frequently, and for the same reason!

But I don't think she's a politician!

Patrick A · Post by **Patrick A** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:50 am

oceanpearl wrote:The one thing that I might add is that my Sleep (Pulmonary) doctor told me that sleep apnea occurs mostly in everweight prople. The R/T wh did my first sllep study also said that he was suprised that a person of my size and shape would have apnea. I wal also told by myinternist that if I lost 15 pounds, the apnea MIGHT go away, I lost 25 lbs and it didn't go away.
In my opinion anyone who thinks that obesity doesn't play a major part in sleep apnea is living in LA La land.
There are some of us who don't fit the obesity mold. It was found that my windpipe at the base of the tongue is about half the size of a normal person's windpipe.
We all need to go back and study the definition of SLEEP APNEA!

Very good point I have lost well of 100 pounds and I still have OSA,
But i also know a person that also has OSA and doesn't weight over 110 pounds so go figure.

dsm · Post by **dsm** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:51 pm

Just to add 0.2c worth.

I believe there is a category of us with OSA / SA that are what could be called 'Age Onset' SA sufferers.

Am not overweight now but did become so, but as treatment began to really work (took about a year on xPAP), was able to lose the excess weight & get back to a more (supposedly) normal weight (187 lbs - 6ft tall).

I am sure that as we age our respiratory facilities (along with many others) deteriorate & am certain that in my own case, it is natural body aging that is my own biggest contributor to my own SA symptoms.

If someone also has other aspects such as excess weight, a particular neck structure (genetic), some lifestyle issues (excess alcohol for one) and several other medical conditions, then I am sure they would all contribute to SA.

DSM

motherall · Post by **motherall** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:12 pm

Actually, in the end, we all die from failure to breathe, apnea or not.

jennmary · Post by **jennmary** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:26 pm

It is a chicken and egg question to me. Does obestity cause OSA or does OSA cause obesity in some? Personally I know that I had SA long before I was overweight. People had been telling me since I was a child that I scared them because I stopped breathing at night and then gasped loudly. I have only been overweight for the past 3 years. 2 years before that I was underweight. When I stopped breathing and nearly died after surgery from what I am certain was an apnea event I was only 19 and under 100 pounds. I think that the sleep apnea has played a MAJOR role in my weight gain (as well as having a baby and moving into my late 20s). It is a vicious cycle....the worse the apnea gets the more weight you gain,but the more weight you gain the worse the apnea gets. Weight aside....Age is just as big a factor statistic wise as weight is in apnea, and to a different degree sex. So why doesnt anyone study those things? Because those aspects arent the patients fault. I guess it is thought that being fat is just the patients fault.

But yes.....the worst part of the nancy grace comment was the way she treated it as a nonsense issue. Fewer people will now get tested, thinking it is JUST a little snoring and you cant die from it.

Rabid1 · Post by **Rabid1** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:09 pm

jennmary wrote: I guess it is thought that being fat is just the patients fault.

I know for a fact this is true for many (even most) health-care professionals. However, I believe more & more, there's a shift of in that thinking overall in the industry.

True, anybody can become slim, but at what cost? There's a great deal of debate over this. There's also a mega-fortune for whoever answers the question, and has the solution.

ProfessorEd · Post by **ProfessorEd** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:32 pm

Seems to me many have died from sleep apnea.

Apnea is just a fancy term for a breathiing cessation.

If this occurs while asleep it is a "sleep apnea".

If it goes on log enough I expect it would lead to death.

Of course there is the question of what causes the apnea. For, instance, someone may be choking the victim, or his heart may have stopped, or his lungs failed. etc. Yet the apnea would appear a plausible proxmite cause of death.

While most of us with the medical condition "sleep anea" do eventally resume breathing after an apnea starts, if one would fail to do so I assume he would eventually be dead. I do not see any obvious way to separate these deaths into those caused by "sleep apnea" and those from other causes.

On a more serius level, I suspect the mechanism by which an "emergency" is declared, and the patient is caused to wake up to deal with it (which creates muscle tensions that open the airway), occasionally fails and eventually the patient dies form lack of oxygen. I do not kno how we would separate this from other causes of death in sleep.

That death rates are highest in the wee hours of the morning when it is hardest to arouse someone, suggests this probably happens.

split_city · Post by **split_city** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:36 pm

ProfessorEd wrote:Seems to me many have died from sleep apnea.

Apnea is just a fancy term for a breathiing cessation.

If this occurs while asleep it is a "sleep apnea".

If it goes on log enough I expect it would lead to death.

Of course there is the question of what causes the apnea. For, instance, someone may be choking the victim, or his heart may have stopped, or his lungs failed. etc. Yet the apnea would appear a plausible proxmite cause of death.

While most of us with the medical condition "sleep anea" do eventally resume breathing after an apnea starts, if one would fail to do so I assume he would eventually be dead. I do not see any obvious way to separate these deaths into those caused by "sleep apnea" and those from other causes.

On a more serius level, I suspect the mechanism by which an "emergency" is declared, and the patient is caused to wake up to deal with it (which creates muscle tensions that open the airway), occasionally fails and eventually the patient dies form lack of oxygen. I do not kno how we would separate this from other causes of death in sleep.

That death rates are highest in the wee hours of the morning when it is hardest to arouse someone, suggests this probably happens.

All very good points. No-one really knows the answers to all your points either.

Susanm · Post by **Susanm** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:57 pm

My sleep doctor implied that sometimes (very rarely) people don't rouse from an apnea, and die as a result. He said alcohol, sedatives, painkillers, etc., could put one into a deeper sleep that made it more difficult or impossible for the body to awaken enough to begin breathing again. Made sense to me. Aren't we supposed to let surgeons and dentists know when we have any type of general anesthesia for basically that reason? We're too far under for that alarm to prompt an arousal and breathing?

Susan

"ProfessorEd said:

While most of us with the medical condition "sleep anea" do eventally resume breathing after an apnea starts, if one would fail to do so I assume he would eventually be dead. I do not see any obvious way to separate these deaths into those caused by "sleep apnea" and those from other causes.

On a more serius level, I suspect the mechanism by which an "emergency" is declared, and the patient is caused to wake up to deal with it (which creates muscle tensions that open the airway), occasionally fails and eventually the patient dies form lack of oxygen. I do not kno how we would separate this from other causes of death in sleep.

That death rates are highest in the wee hours of the morning when it is hardest to arouse someone, suggests this probably happens.

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