You can't die from Sleep Apnea

ok.... What upsets me about the comment isnt even the whole cant die from it thing. What gets me is the statement that sleep apnea is just snoring. Sleep apnea is NOT the same thing as snoring. That is a very stupid thing to tell the world. My mom snores....and her sleep study turned up no apnea. I never snored until a few months ago when I gained my last 20 pounds. But I have been waking up gasping for breath since I was a child. People have seen me stop breathing in my sleep since I was about 8.

Maybe I am mad at the wrong part. The flipant tone and the snoring part are what got to me.

DreamStalker wrote:

split_city wrote:

tomjax wrote:I do not think it is possible for a persons aiirway to collapse and then die because it would not open. Something else must happen.

correct

So that is kind'a like saying you can't die from a gunshot to the head ... you die of the trauma and blood loss caused by the gunshot.

... or do you die of the complications caused by the trauma and blood loss?

... or do you die of the effects of the complications?

... or do you die of the results of the effects?

... or do you die of the consequences of the results?

... or maybe we never really die?

You GO Roberto. Of course people die of sleep apnea. To say they don't is ludicrous. It causes high blood pressure, heart desease, strokes, diabetes--do you mean to tell me that no one ever died of those?

I am pretty sure that my Grandfather died of heart disease caused by undiagnosed OSA. In my mind, OSA is the ultimate cause. Duh. If he had been treated, he might never have had the heart problems--he ate well and took relatively good care of himself otherwise. Maybe he would have had heart problems, but I doubt it would have been so severe or caused his death in his mid 60's!

You guys defending this crap are really jerking my chain. I sent an angry note to the first url, but couldn't find a place to leave comments at the cnn website.

Jen

Well, sorry to be technical, but OSA is kinda snoring. It really is severe snoring. Snoring occurs when the airway narrows and vibrates. Eventually, the airway narrows so much and the snoring gets so bad, that you begin to have hypopneas and desaturate. An obstructive apnea is the end point of airway narrowing.

*moves back in corner*

Yes, but you can have apnea and NOT SNORE.

AND you can SNORE and not have APNEA.

Don't tell me I'm wrong, because I know for a fact it is true!

Jen

socknitster wrote:
You GO Roberto. Of course people die of sleep apnea. To say they don't is ludicrous. It causes high blood pressure, heart desease, strokes, diabetes--do you mean to tell me that no one ever died of those?

I'll refer to my earlier post

split_city wrote:

tomjax wrote:The sequalea of apnea- htn, diabetes, stroke, chf, will be the eventual proximate cause of death although it was brought on by apnea.

You say these co-morbidities were brought upon by apnea. How do you know they weren't simply brought on by obesity? There are many obese individuals who don't suffer OSA but have these co-morbidities.

Obviously this argument only holds true in overweight/obese people. I'm not saying that OSA doesn't result in these co-morbidities, but you must take into account other factors.

socknitster wrote: I am pretty sure that my Grandfather died of heart disease caused by undiagnosed OSA. In my mind, OSA is the ultimate cause. Duh. If he had been treated, he might never have had the heart problems--he ate well and took relatively good care of himself otherwise. Maybe he would have had heart problems, but I doubt it would have been so severe or caused his death in his mid 60's!

There have been many people out there that died from lung cancer who never smoked.

socknitster wrote: Yes, but you can have apnea and NOT SNORE.

Yes, it's called a central apnea

socknitster wrote:AND you can SNORE and not have APNEA.

That's why i said severe end of snoring. Generally, light snoring is not going to cause desats

So, I guess we should all just hang up our hoses, because apnea isn't hurting us anyway? Duh. That is just as crazy as you trying to say that being fat causes all ills. I gained weight because I was too tired to move. I was thin when it started. I wish you would give up the apnea patients are fat line, it is getting sooooooo old.

I'm done with this thread. It isn't good for my BLOOD PRESSURE!

Jen

socknitster wrote: So, I guess we should all just hang up our hoses, because apnea isn't hurting us anyway?

That's just being silly. I never said anything like that! I never said apnea doesn't cause those co-morbidities. I said you can't definatively say that the apnea causes these co-morbidities in overweight people because these co-morbidities are commom in overweight people to begin with

socknitster wrote:That is just as crazy as you trying to say that being fat causes all ills.

Where did I say that?

socknitster wrote:I gained weight because I was too tired to move. I was thin when it started. I wish you would give up the apnea patients are fat line, it is getting sooooooo old.

Once again, where did I say that? I have stated many times that OSA is not confined to overweight individuals.

Sounds like Nancy needs to make sure her brain is fully engaged before she puts her mouth in motion.

split_city wrote:

socknitster wrote: Yes, but you can have apnea and NOT SNORE.

Yes, it's called a central apnea

Wrong again. I am not having central events while on my machine, but I still have apneas that it has to take care of, and my husband doesn't hear me snoring.

Done. Not coming back. Say whatever you want behind my back. But I am INTELLIGENT AND WELL EDUCATED and I care about PEOPLE not about laying blame and making people FEEL BAD ABOUT WHO THEY ARE.

I will not apologise for being overweight. It happened because of something that went on when I was UNCONSCIOUS. Now that I have the energy to go to the gym and the EDUCATION to monitor my treatment, I will take it off, believe me. But I'm young and 35 and the apnea hasn't done too much damage to my body yet. Most others aren't discovered until middle age, but you just want to call them fat instead of victims of something that happens while they sleep that they are UNAWARE OF.

Ever heard of metabolic disorder? Thought to be caused by apnea.

You are just here looking to pick fights. As a tech, not a clinician, you don't even have the education to back up half of what you say. Maybe if you got an md and were here to actually HELP people you wouldn't find yourself arguing so much.

Jen

socknitster wrote: Done. Not coming back. Say whatever you want behind my back. But I am INTELLIGENT AND WELL EDUCATED and I care about PEOPLE not about laying blame and making people FEEL BAD ABOUT WHO THEY ARE.

Where have I ever blamed anyone for having OSA?

socknitster wrote: but you just want to call them fat instead of victims of something that happens while they sleep that they are UNAWARE OF.

Where have I ever said that?

socknitster wrote: You are just here looking to pick fights.

How did you come to that conclusion? Which post suggests that I have tried to pick a fight?

socknitster wrote:As a tech, not a clinician, you don't even have the education to back up half of what you say. Maybe if you got an md and were here to actually HELP people you wouldn't find yourself arguing so much.

You're right, I'm not a clinician, nor am I a tech. I'm only studying for a PhD in the field of sleep apnea. I have been working in the area of sleep apnea for about 5 years. I never said I was an expert but I do know a little behind the physiology of OSA. I speak to patients all the time. I have never said to any patient that weight loss is the only way to get rid of OSA. On the other hand, I have also spoken to several healthy weight individuals who have OSA. Again, I am aware that OSA doesn't only occur in overweight individuals.

If I didn't care about OSA patients, why would I conduct research to (hopefully) better our understanding behind the pathophysiology of OSA? This will hopefully lead to better treatment alternatives and also provide answers to why OSA is in some people and not others.

OK.....then tell me how a 7 year old child who does not snore at all can still have OBSTRUCTIVE apnea events? You can have high blood pressure and heart disease caused by sleep apnea without being overweight. Sleep apnea is defined as.......

"The standard definition of any apneic event includes a minimum 10 second interval between breaths, with either a neurological arousal (3-second or greater shift in EEG frequency, measured at C3, C4, O1, or O2), or a blood oxygen desaturation of 3-4 percent or greater, or both arousal and desaturation."

"Additional signs of obstructive sleep apnea include restless sleep, and loud snoring (with periods of silence followed by gasps). "

Snoring is in itself NOT a form of apnea. You are an idiot and it scares me to death to know you are out there "working" in the sleep field.
That is like saying a heart attack is nothing more than chest pain.

If you do come back jen.....I am on the same side of the fence as you. I also do not appreciate that the first conclusion jumped to is that if you have those certian conditions you must be obese too.

Technically, everyone dies of apnea... the absence of breathing. That and asystole which is the absence of a heartbeat.

jennmary said:

ok.... What upsets me about the comment isnt even the whole cant die from it thing. What gets me is the statement that sleep apnea is just snoring. Sleep apnea is NOT the same thing as snoring. That is a very stupid thing to tell the world. My mom snores....and her sleep study turned up no apnea. I never snored until a few months ago when I gained my last 20 pounds. But I have been waking up gasping for breath since I was a child. People have seen me stop breathing in my sleep since I was about 8.

Maybe I am mad at the wrong part. The flipant tone and the snoring part are what got to me.

jenn, you are so right

it's too bad this thread got bogged down in semantics and hair-splitting...the point i think the o.p. was trying to make is that a person, on the air, who is heard by countless people made an ignorant, irresponsible, downright dangerous error by trivializing a very serious disorder...i sent emails, too, even if it was a waste of energy to do so (granted, i don't have any energy to spare)

jen said:

Maybe if you got an md and were here to actually HELP people you wouldn't find yourself arguing so much.

you noticed that trend too, huh?

jennmary wrote: OK.....then tell me how a 7 year old child who does not snore at all can still have OBSTRUCTIVE apnea events? You can have high blood pressure and heart disease caused by sleep apnea without being overweight.

Perhaps the airway collapsed instantaneously without any preceeding breaths showing flow limitation?

A majority (not all) of patients I have studied were snoring prior and during a hypopnea, and prior to an obstructive event.

jennmary wrote:Snoring is in itself NOT a form of apnea.

I said severe snoring i.e. severe flow limitation. As I stated, a majority of the OSA patients I studied were snoring during their hypopnea.

jennmary wrote: Nevertheless, you went on and said this:

Sleep apnea is defined as.......


"Additional signs of obstructive sleep apnea include restless sleep, and loud snoring (with periods of silence followed by gasps). "

Snoring is in itself NOT a form of apnea.

But snoring can be an additional sign of apnea? I never said OSA is only snoring. I did mentione desats as well.

jennmary wrote: You are an idiot and it scares me to death to know you are out there "working" in the sleep field.

Your choice

jennmary wrote: I also do not appreciate that the first conclusion jumped to is that if you have those certian conditions you must be obese too.

I never said that either. I was replying to this post:

tomjax wrote:The sequalea of apnea- htn, diabetes, stroke, chf, will be the eventual proximate cause of death although it was brought on by apnea.Again here we have the chicken egg situation. Most of these conditions can be the cause or result of the others.

Can we agree that hypertension, heart disease, diabetes is common in overweight people? I'm not saying these aren't present in healthy-weight people, because in fact, they are. But I'm just focussing on overweight people for the point of this discussion.

Furthermore, can we agree that there are overweight people out there who don't have OSA but have hypertension, heart disease etc. Again going back to the paragraph above, being overweight is a risk factor for these co-morbidities. Therefore, I was saying that obesity may also be the cause of these co-morbidities in OSA patients and not through the result of apnea events.

This was my point. You critisized me for bringing up other possible causes of these co-morbidities but you don't do the same when someone states that these co-morbidities are brought upon by OSA. Nevertheless, I also said that OSA may very well also result in these co-morbdities.