Link between OSA and the "beer gut"

[Snoredog]

everyone knows the reason of beer gut,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4048969.stm

its the beer stupid

[split_city]

Yeah so what's your point? I never said OSA causes a beer gut? I said the beer gut in males "may" indirectly cause airway collapse and perhaps explains why males suffer OSA more than females.

You're trying to deflect away from the argument. Your belief is that the flopping back of the tongue is the only cause of OSA. Here we have Prof. David White talking about multiple causes of OSA. I've had the privilege of hearing and talking to him about the causes (note the plural nature there) of OSA. His opinions and ideas are highly regarded by many other sleep researchers. Are you saying he has no idea and his research is some made up dribble?

[blarg]

[Guest]

Split-city,

Are there good studies that have shown that sleep-related breathing disorders occur less frequently in women than men?

The description that appears over and over in the media is almost always the overweight middle-aged male who snores loudly. Both the public and physicians seem unaware that women, younger people including children, and slender people, can have sleep-related breathing disorders.

Perhaps it's really a question of incidence vs prevalence.

Women are often misdiagnosed with Depression, and more women than men may have UARS which many labs don't consider as a diagnosis.

[split_city]

Split-city,

Are there good studies that have shown that sleep-related breathing disorders occur less frequently in women than men?

Yes there have been many studies showing this. The male:female ratio is generally anywhere between 2:1 up to around 10:1.

The description that appears over and over in the media is almost always the overweight middle-aged male who snores loudly. Both the public and physicians seem unaware that women, younger people including children, and slender people, can have sleep-related breathing disorders.

Perhaps it's really a question of incidence vs prevalence.

The bold statement probably holds true. As I said previously, OSA has only been presented by the media over the last 5-10 years which probably coincides with increased cases of OSA due to the obesity epidemic. While I agree that the public is probably unaware of the prevalence of OSA in women, children and slender people, physicians should now have this knowledge.

Women are often misdiagnosed with Depression, and more women than men may have UARS which many labs don't consider as a diagnosis.

I would be surprised if future research demonstrated that more women than men had OSA but I do realise that probably more women are undiagnosed sleep apnea sufferers.

[Guest]

I just want you to keep an open mind to the possibility/probability that the prevalence in female (and other category) patients is still unrecognized.

In any given 1-year period, 9.5 percent of the population, or about 20.9 million American adults, suffer from a depressive illness. Women are believed to experience depression about twice as often as men. However currently there is no protocol for patients to be screened for a sleep disorder before being diagnosed with a depressive illness. I have never seen a study of patients with Depression that prescreened the subjects for sleep apnea. So how many of those people are actually suffering from untreated apnea? Answer unknown.

A few years ago there was a study of female OSAHS patients. The average time between initial presentation of symptoms to physician and diagnosis was approx. 10 years. Studies have shown that patients are often referred for psychological counseling before being referred for sleep testing.

If one surfs the sleep apnea websites, there are anecdotal reports from some men and many, many women who report difficulty in persuading their primary care physicians to refer them to a sleep study/center/specialist.

The standard beliefs about Depression were established before Sleep Apnea was defined as a disorder. The standard beliefs about women and sleep apnea were established a decade before women were ever studied, and before UARS was even proposed. Why is it that the standard beliefs seem to be written in stone, even as new info emerges?

[split_city]

Interesting read. You said:

"However currently there is no protocol for patients to be screened for a sleep disorder before being diagnosed with a depressive illness."

Is this completely correct? The number one symptom for OSA is excessive daytime sleepiness. This is probably the most commom report that patients make to their GP before they are referred for a sleep study. Obviously there are other symptoms such as waking up "choking," fatigue, partners seeing the spouse stop breathing, falling asleep behind the wheel etc.

This is the "chicken or the egg story:" Does OSA cause the depression or is it the other way around? There is no doubt that there are lots of undiagnosed cases of OSA out there. On the otherhand, I see many patients who come in with OSA symptoms but the diagnostic study shows a "normal" AHI.

Sleep studies cost money. This is probably why a number of physicians are reluctant to admit every single patient

_________________

CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): AHI

[Snoredog]

yawn!

call me back when you stumble over the topic of the hypothalamus and its function and how it plays a role in your research will ya, till then, I'll take a nap

[split_city]

yawn!

call me back when you stumble over the topic of the hypothalamus and its function and how it plays a role in your research will ya, till then, I'll take a nap

pfft....pathetic attempt at answering the question at hand. You're quick to voice your opinion about it but can't take it when it bites back at you. Just accept it, you're not man enough to admit that you got it wrong. Perhaps you will think twice before getting up on your high horse in future. However, I doubt that will happen!

Furthermore, why would I discuss the hypothalamus. It's obvious to me (and others on this forum) that you know everything.

[Snoredog]

yawn!

call me back when you stumble over the topic of the hypothalamus and its function and how it plays a role in your research will ya, till then, I'll take a nap

pfft....pathetic attempt at answering the question at hand. You're quick to voice your opinion about it but can't take it when it bites back at you. Just accept it, you're not man enough to admit that you got it wrong. Perhaps you will think twice before getting up on your high horse in future. However, I doubt that will happen!

Furthermore, why would I discuss the hypothalamus. It's obvious to me (and others on this forum) that you know everything.

I think you need to go blow on your dideradoo some more.

[split_city]

knocking you off your high horse is more satisfying

[Snoredog]

knocking you off your high horse is more satisfying

let's get one thing straight... YOU haven't come close to knocking me off my high horse, it would take much more than a aussie to do that, just ask dsm.

with the truth being said, it's not that you knock me off my high horse, its that every time I come around to grab a ring, I read your topic "Link between OSA and beer bellie" that I fall off the horse laughing.



so now that we understand each other, I'm back to my nap.

[split_city]

Regardless of whether you find my idea about a potential cause of OSA amusing, will you care to answer an earlier question I posted earlier? Since you think you can't be knocked off your high horse by an aussie, you should easily be able to come up with an argument. Are you still saying that the tongue flopping back is the ONLY cause of OSA? This is despite research stating otherwise. There was even a quote by another poster which I have included in this post (just in case you somehow forgot or chose to ignore) which explained several causes of OSA as described by David White.


"On the other hand, obstructive sleep apnea can develop as the result of a variety of physiologic characteristics. The combinations of these may vary considerably between patients. Most obstructive apnea patients have an anatomically small upper airway with augmented pharyngeal dilator muscle activation maintaining airway patency awake, but not asleep. However, individual variability in several phenotypic characteristics may ultimately determine who develops apnea and how severe the apnea will be. These include: (1) upper airway anatomy, (2) the ability of upper airway dilator muscles to respond to rising intrapharyngeal negative pressure and increasing Co2 during sleep, (3) arousal threshold in response to respiratory stimulation, and (4) loop gain (ventilatory control instability). As a result, patients may respond to different therapeutic approaches based on the predominant abnormality leading to the sleep-disordered breathing."

However, you seem to keep deflecting away from it. Why is that? Just keep letting it go through to the keeper

[Snoredog]

nope not playing your game, looks like you are doing a fine enough job asking your Guest questions and then also answering them.

[split_city]

My point exactly.....keep ignoring the questions at hand. You obviously were pretty proud of yourself when posting negative comments earlier in this thread. I have been informed that this is not uncommon for you. Perhaps you should think before posting similar comments next time.