OT: Time out and/or Duke it out thread

[Pugsy]

Assuming that I won't be kicked off this un-moderated forum anytime soon.

No chance of that...I think you know that.
Hubby is due home soon and I have a few chores I would like out of the way before he gets home...so I work a little and rest a little and work a little...and try to catch up here while resting.

I have thought long and hard about some of the points you raised...and not just about PR...he isn't the only one with a sharp tongue around here. I am not without a knife for a tongue myself...I just don't show it all that often.

I want to give a thoughtful response to the issues you brought up and I don't compose stuff easily or quickly...so let me get back with you later when I have some time to compose my thoughts.

[palerider]

Assuming that I won't be kicked off this un-moderated forum anytime soon.

I have thought long and hard about some of the points you raised...and not just about PR...he isn't the only one with a sharp tongue around here. I am not without a knife for a tongue myself...I just don't show it all that often.

I respect your opinion, you've earned the respect of all even halfway thinking people on this forum.

the person you're responding to has earned nothing but disdain from the very first post which served no purpose other than to cause strife and inflame attitudes, as pointed out recently by lsat.

in an effort to be more 'on point', I've added it to the noise list... too much noise around here of late.

[kteague]

And we wondered what PR might say... In the spirit of name calling, stupid me for hoping for something more.

[Pugsy]

We've got a few people here both guys and gals who have sharp tongues or fingers and/or like to poke trolls just because they like poking. Telling them to "don't feed the troll...or even don't feed the bad behavior" is pretty much a waste of time. They either can't see what they are doing or they don't care or maybe take pride in it.

I see some comments that make me cringe sometimes.
Sometimes it's the actual content and sometimes it is the way it is said.
There's quite a mixture of personalities here and just like in real life they "talk" in a manner that probably would get under our skin if we were in a social setting and we probably wouldn't care to socialize with them. There are some here I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire on my front porch.

Carolyn has always said...attack the message and not the messenger...man, that's hard to do sometimes when we see someone being a jackass...believe me I know how hard that is to do.
I also know how hard it is to not poke back when someone gets poked....believe me I know how hard it is to not poke back.

We aren't going to change someone else...it just simply isn't going to happen but we can change how we respond to ugliness. My husband is an OTR truck driver....he gets the middle finger salute often..usually because he is going below the speed limit and traffic wants around him but his truck won't go more than 67 mph and he can't help it...you know what he does when drivers pass him and give him the middle finger salute...most of the time he blows them kisses and laughs...that pisses them off a lot more than if he responded with his own middle finger salute and he feels better because he didn't stoop to their level and respond in kind.

We've always had some pretty heated discussions on this forum in the past but for the most part it was about difference of opinion about something related to something with cpap...how often to wash or not wash...or fixed vs auto adjusting pressure...but we didn't do as much personal attacking or calling someone an ugly name or directly attack the person..like you stupid moron.
The last few years we have gone from fighting about stuff that might really matter to fighting just to be fighting and to see who can get the last "you're a bigger dick" posted so that you "win" the fight.

The tone of the fighting has gotten ugly...the name calling has gotten ugly and the number of posts just from name calling has skyrocketed...threads hijacked to the point there are more name calling posts than helping posts.
The reason for disagreement long lost in the name calling.

When threads deteriorate to that point...and newbies are wondering about the sanity of all the members here and thinking "man, what a mess of a forum"...and are afraid to comment here in case they are collateral damage in a dry by shooting...that's what upsets me so much. We've gone from a forum where we are supposed to be here because we want to help to a forum where we want to be last one standing in a riot and get the last punch in.

We can't change the way someone talks and Johnny has elected to have a more "open" forum here and that has it's pros and cons. I have yet to figure out a response to someone being a bully or being ugly that doesn't make me the same thing I dislike. It's really hard to attack the message without attacking the messenger...I know that but two wrongs don't make a right. So we either accept the good with the bad and make the best of it or we go elsewhere.
It is what it is.

For me...what I am going to try to do is direct responses to let it be known that the message is maybe hurtful (what a stupid question...type of message) and try to answer the question or comment without pointedly calling someone a bully or dick or asshole.

Hell maybe I will do it and blow kisses at the end. I gotta figure out some sort of response that I can live with and not drag myself down to the point where I am just as ugly as the original person who made a comment that was ugly.
Sure I can be as big of a dick as the next person but I really don't want it out there for the whole forum to see.
It's not something I am particularly proud of. For those that like to wear that badge...I can't do anything about them but I can try to do something about my own response so that I am not feeding the troll/dick/PITA asshole.

Try to figure out some way to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. It's not easy...I know that for sure but unfortunately I don't have an easy solution...I wish I did.

[Pugsy]

the person you're responding to has earned nothing but disdain from the very first post which served no purpose other than to cause strife and inflame attitudes, as pointed out recently by lsat.

Yes...I am well aware of what all was said and the tone by all parties involved.

[palerider]

And we wondered what PR might say... In the spirit of name calling, stupid me for hoping for something more.

I didn't figure anybody was hoping to hear from me... of course to listen to a ..... group, (whether minority or majority) there was either fear or loathing towards anything I might say.

I admit, I'm tired of foolish people saying stupid things, people that contribute nothing whatsoever worthwhile to the purported purpose of this forum, the maximization of the effectiveness of cpap therapy.

there are the foolish people that contribute nothing but criticism as they pretend to champion the what... weak? downtrodden? the somehow oppressed? I think we all know the ones, the ones that contribute nothing about cpap, or how to fix problems with it... they just hang out here for the soap opera drama, and stir the pot whenever they can.

there are the foolish people that think they know something, but are sadly mistaken, they offer bad advice, sometimes hazardous advice, they think that their precious 'help' is going to do something other than confuse, or possibly harm people that don't know any better.

the first group can, and should be completely ignored, they're worthless. the second should be watched, diligently, so that their bad advice can be corrected lest it harm someone.

people that are simply ignorant, but eager to learn, to improve their knowledge, to improve themselves and enhance their treatment, those people are gems, and should be treasured and helped as much as possible, and shielded from the stupid.

[Grace~~~]

Hell maybe I will do it and blow kisses at the end. I gotta figure out some sort of response that I can live with and not drag myself down to the point where I am just as ugly as the original person who made a comment that was ugly.

Maybe Johnny and Carolyn will consider a 'Pugsy' KISS BLOWING SMILEY?

[palerider]

There are some here I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire on my front porch.

hopefully you'll at least shove 'em off where they won't catch the porch on fire.

his truck won't go more than 67 mph and he can't help it...

I wasn't aware before getting to be friends with TatooedLady that a lot of the trucks have governors on 'em, her truck won't do over 64 unless it's downhill.. and she gets in *BIG* trouble with the company if it gets over 70, for ANY reason.... (downhill with a tailwind, presumably).

an while it's very off topic for this thread, this pic I saw today is on topic for this truck talk aside:

[exiii]

the person you're responding to has earned nothing but disdain from the very first post which served no purpose other than to cause strife and inflame attitudes, as pointed out recently by lsat.

My first post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111472&p=1099964#p1099964

Indeed, part of the reason I made this post was because PR and LSAT were bullying another member and offering incorrect information about a machine that I had sitting in front of me. I'd seen the same behavior in my lurking, and simply called the collective group "ornery". It was one sentence. I then relayed my experience with the heating element inside the device BECAUSE I'D HAD A SIMILAR ISSUE with trying to breath heated air. The humidifier works by heating the air. The TITLE of the thread is, "Cool Moist Air Need Info".

Of course I was instantly "wrong" because I had disrespected the natural order of the board.

"noise list" - Does this mean you have a browser script that generates noise in place of my comments, to which you just respond, "this person is wrong"? Or does it autopost random belittling phrases after each post by your "noise list" members. Being the recipient of either would be fun.

[Pugsy]

I wasn't aware before getting to be friends with TatooedLady that a lot of the truck have governors on 'em, her truck won't do over 64 unless it's downhill.. and she gets in *BIG* trouble with the company if it gets over 70, for ANY reason.... (downhill with a tailwind, presumably).

Sort of...they try to get up to the governor and going downhill they kick it out of gear and the truck will increase speed until the next hill.
And there are computers in there that will tell the shop every time they did that little trick.

I am going out for the evening...you guys and gals have fun and try not to kill each other.

[Peaceful sleeper]

Bravo to you Pugsy for speaking up! Thanks for all you do to keep this crew civil and help those who really need it at the same time. Hi to Mrs. Goodman! Thanks for giving us this place to learn about our CPAP therapy. Just reading the worthwhile threads of questions others have already asked helped me so much when I was brand new to this last year.

[kteague]

A few weeks ago I was thinking about this subject and was gathering information by randomly picking sequential segments of posts and seeing how many had devolved to personal attacks. In one set it was 3 out of 10. Another set was 4 out of 10. I wanted to see if my perception matched reality. Before my fact finding mission I would have guessed at least 6 out of 10 posts become derogatory. I didn't know whether to be relieved by finding it's generally not as many as I thought, or to be shocked to realize my sensitivity has become so calloused as to think that 4 out of 10 is by any measure acceptable. It helps me a bit to remember that there are not always as many persons arguing as it seems. There are bandwagon accounts created for the express purpose of rallying the troops.

Just speaking for myself, posts countering misinformation are most credible when not muddied by personal conflict. A person who in sincerity posts erroneous information, in my view, becomes a person in need of information, and one we are here to help. I feel our handling of them should be nurturing (except for in the case of obvious trolls). The greater good. All of us make an investment of our time here. I for one, don't want to see the light from the wealth of knowledge here dimmed by me or anyone else getting in their feelings.

And PR, I do care to see your input. Yes, you are frequently contentiousness, but you are quite knowledgeable about CPAP and you have been known to be helpful. I guess I just keeping wishing that aspect of your contributions here would be your legacy and not be overshadowed by your "other" reputation. I'm still not convinced I'm wasting my wishes.

[Lucyhere]

And we wondered what PR might say... In the spirit of name calling, stupid me for hoping for something more.

I didn't figure anybody was hoping to hear from me... of course to listen to a ..... group, (whether minority or majority) there was either fear or loathing towards anything I might say.

I admit, I'm tired of foolish people saying stupid things, people that contribute nothing whatsoever worthwhile to the purported purpose of this forum, the maximization of the effectiveness of cpap therapy.

there are the foolish people that contribute nothing but criticism as they pretend to champion the what... weak? downtrodden? the somehow oppressed? I think we all know the ones, the ones that contribute nothing about cpap, or how to fix problems with it... they just hang out here for the soap opera drama, and stir the pot whenever they can.

there are the foolish people that think they know something, but are sadly mistaken, they offer bad advice, sometimes hazardous advice, they think that their precious 'help' is going to do something other than confuse, or possibly harm people that don't know any better.

the first group can, and should be completely ignored, they're worthless. the second should be watched, diligently, so that their bad advice can be corrected lest it harm someone.

people that are simply ignorant, but eager to learn, to improve their knowledge, to improve themselves and enhance their treatment, those people are gems, and should be treasured and helped as much as possible, and shielded from the stupid.

PR... you are without a doubt the biggest asshole I've ever met, here or in real life. You are an ego maniac of the first order. You are a tiny little man who takes great joy in making others feel like crap. You're like the scared bully who attacks first, before anyone sees what you're really all about. You win the prize for being the biggest trouble maker on this forum. Anyone can go back through the archives and see that for themselves.

In the future, anytime I see a belittling, condescending, uncalled for post from you, I will copy and paste it in this thread for all to see.

[palerider]

And PR, I do care to see your input. Yes, you are frequently contentiousness, but you are quite knowledgeable about CPAP and you have been known to be helpful. I guess I just keeping wishing that aspect of your contributions here would be your legacy and not be overshadowed by your "other" reputation. I'm still not convinced I'm wasting my wishes.

well, we'll see what advanced ignoring of noise does to help the signal to noise ratio... more signal, less noise, is the goal.

while I'm quite sure the owners here won't put any effort into enhancing the software the forum runs on (ancient database, ancient phpbb base) one thing that would hugely help the signal to noise ratio would be to list all the accounts that are coming from the same IP. so those rabblerousers that make multiple accounts to appear to have more support in their troublemaking would have to work much harder to avoid being exposed for what, and who, they are. I'd love to see it, not just for the unregistered accounts, but for the regular ones too.

[sleepyb]

While, it would be wonderful if this would work, boy I have hung around this site for years and seen many pleas for respect and courtesy, but the same crap continues. Still, I have shared this site with many people because the good the people on this site do in helping them with xPAP far outweighs the bad.