The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.

The Great Vaseline™ __________ of '06

CONSPIRACY
7
14%
HOAX
12
24%
NO REALLY! I THINK WE'RE ON TO SOMETHING BIG!
11
22%
I'M NOT VOTING
21
41%
 
Total votes: 51

User avatar
StillAnotherGuest
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:43 pm

Goel Says 8 Minutes, Not 408...

Post by StillAnotherGuest » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:39 pm

ozij wrote:And seriously SAG (well, I was serious about the above experiment too) can you recommend a different way of introducing pleasant smells into the the system?
If you're looking for effect, why do you need to smell it?

There's More Than One Way To Skin A Cat
ozij wrote:Suppose we set up this lab experiment: Pur-Sleep, machine, filters various pressures, air analysis: what would you want us to look at in this analysis? which lab findings do would indicate - "keep away from that!!!"? which would mean: "OK if you're otherwise healthy" and which would mean "no problem"? There must be a better way of approaching this than either cats, or humans as lab rats... (hmmm. cats as lab rats... but you know what I mean... ). People published papers benchmarking CPAP machines - why not a paper (or 2 or 3) about the air the comes out of the mask when there are essential oils outside the machine?
The amount of variables is staggering. EO concentration, length of contact time, efficiency of system, use of humidification, which EO (some may have hundreds of compounds) and idiosyncracies.

I think it would be far more efficient to watch for the aforementioned symptoms or lab tests:

Code: Select all

1. Change in oximetry trend (mean reading during night, spot check during day). Baseline and follow-ups may be obtained from original PSGs, serial PSGs and/or self-monitoring.
2. Change in screening spirometry values.
3. Change in complete Pulmonary Function Testing (PFT) values, particularly diffusion.
4. Symptomatic change in pulmonary function, as in decreased ability of aerobic exercise or increased shortness of breath on exertion
and then go back, do some history and look for commonalities.

BTW, a great quality source would be Nature's Gift.

SAG
Image

Aromatherapy may help CPAP compliance. Lavender, Mandarin, Chamomile, and Sweet Marjoram aid in relaxation and sleep. Nature's Gift has these and a blend of all four called SleepEase.

SleepGuy
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:23 pm
Location: Utah
Contact:

Re: Goel Says 8 Minutes, Not 408...

Post by SleepGuy » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:56 pm

StillAnotherGuest wrote:I think it would be far more efficient to watch for the aforementioned symptoms or lab tests:

Code: Select all

1. Change in oximetry trend (mean reading during night, spot check during day). Baseline and follow-ups may be obtained from original PSGs, serial PSGs and/or self-monitoring.
2. Change in screening spirometry values.
3. Change in complete Pulmonary Function Testing (PFT) values, particularly diffusion.
4. Symptomatic change in pulmonary function, as in decreased ability of aerobic exercise or increased shortness of breath on exertion
and then go back, do some history and look for commonalities.

SAG
Just a few thoughts since I am too tired to get into the deails tonight.

1. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a certified aromatherapist. Aromatherapy is not a practice recognized or licensed by any governmental entity. To the extent that "aromatherpists" make medical treatment claims, they are practicing medicine and should be required to be licensed for that purpose, consistent with the laws of all 50 states and the federal government. Therefore, "certified" aromatherapists are not much more than New Age Quacks IMO. Gary Young (aka Young Living) right here in my home state calls himself a "Natureopathic Doctor" or ND. One of his "certified" practitioners (and presumably MLM marketer) had the gall to post on this site a claim that putting certain YoungLiving essential oils on your feet every night for a week would actually cure sleep apnea. While there may well be a medical basis for some therapeutic claims on essential oils (such as Goel proved with lavender and sleep), there is virtually no proof of any kind showing therapeutic benefits with one exception: A smell that an individual finds to be pleasant will probably help that person relax and feel calm. The sense of smell directly connects to the limbic system and therefore can affect our emotions for good or bad. That's pretty much what science has actually proven about smell. Human responses to smell are immediate and emotional. So that pretty much sums it up: Pure Hedonism.

2. There is almost as much misinformation about essential oil safety as there is about their miraculous properties. If you believe the safety claims, almost any essential oil will cause spontaneous miscarriage so pregnant women should avoid them like the plague. It's modern Patent Medicine aka Snake Oil, miracle cure for almost anything known to humans. Having sifted through a large amounts of unfounded trivia, I concluded that the best recognized source of information about essential oil safety is a book by that title by Robert Tisserand. Feel free to check it out from the library and read it. One of my favorite examples from Tisserand is the fact that, apparently beliveing the claims about essential oil causing spontaneous miscarriages, in a number of cases pregnant women have ingested essential oils hoping to cause an abortion. It has yet to work in any case--not one time. It made the mother sick but no magic abortion effect.

3. I have searched Tisserand extensively and found not a single reference to any questions about the questions SAG has raised and in particular the possibility of lung damage or function. This is probably because aromatic molecules are extremely small and would readily be absorbed by the lungs directly into the bloodstream, as Tisserand points out. This applies to all natural and artificual fragrances. The kinds of lung damage you're talking about involves substances that have much, much larger molecular sizes, big enough that they might actually become trapped in the lung, too large to be absorbed into the bloodstream. The maximum possible dose of essential oil that may end up in the bloodstream through inhalation would not be greater than the original dose dispensed, probably quite a bit less. A great many aromatherapy suppliers provide personal diffusion devices for people to use throughout the day or night around their immediate person, in their car, at the office. Room and office diffusers are also readily available as are incense burners and the like, together with a large variety of air freshener and cleaning products, all of which emit aromatic molecules into the air we breathe. Many aromatherapy books recommend the dispensing of essential oils right on the pillow or bedclothing. No one seems to be overly concerned about aromatic safety and lung damage in any of these applications.

4. To be sure, the fact that aromatic molecules may be absorbed directly into the bloodstream presents obvious toxicological questions, as would the absorption of any small molecule. Every time you smell a flower, strawberry shampoo, soap, lotion, bubblebath, or fabric softener, those little aromatic molecules are most likely going right into your bloodstream. For that matter, every time you drink soda pop, you are ingesting relatively large amounts of essential oils used to make the soda syrup (yes, soda pop "natural" flavors are essential oil based--lots of lime and citrus). Essential oils find their way into the food supply in surprising large amounts. Every pack of DoubleMint Gum is full of real peppermint essential oil. Big Red is packed with cinnamon leaf essential oil. When you chew this it ends up right in your lungs and in your bloodstream. Many, many products are packed with mint essential oil (or synthetically derived mint oil with basically the same molecules), from mouthwash to toothpaste, gum, breath mints, tic tacs, etc. This is why the Federal Drug Administration developed a list of essential oils that are "Generally Recognized as Safe" for human consumption. The list includes peppermint, lavender, lime, tangerine, orange, ylang ylang, vanilla, and the other essential oils used in PurSleep products. My understanding is that if they are safe for direct human consumption via ingestion they are safe for other forms of exposure, including inhalation since the molecules are readily absorbed into the blood stream just as they are readily absorbed into the bloodstream through digestion. At least that's how I read Tisserand.

In any event, if you are worried about lung damage and controlling the relevant variables, the inquiry should not be limited to essential oils. The concern would apply to any molecule that humans perceive to impart an odor (any aromatic molecule), whether natural or artificial. In order to control the variables test subjects would need to live in a plastic bubble for many months to get all of the aromatic molecules out of their systems. Body odor and flatulence would need to be immediately removed from the bubble so as not to impair the experiment. Unscented cleaning products only would be permitted, including deodorant. Only then could someone conduct a test to find out whether or not the PurSleep products caused lung damage.

That sounds a little too complicated to me. I prefer to stand by Tisserand's Essential Oil Safety and the FDA list of essentail oils that are "Generally Recognizes as Safe" for human consumption. I admit that I am not all that sophisticated and that I tend to be simple minded but I can't see how any aromatic molecule could cause lung damage. To my simple mind, anything that helps me use my CPAP is good. I would much rather live with the risk that my lungs will become completely plugged with tiny aromatic molecules than die from untreated apnea and/or one of its co-morbid conditions.
Try the Scented CPAP Mask with Pur-Sleep's CPAP Aromatherapy--CPAP Diffuser and Essential Oils.
"Love it, Love it, Love my PurSleep!"

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 10444
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Goel Says 8 Minutes, Not 408...

Post by ozij » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:14 am

StillAnotherGuest wrote:
ozij wrote:And seriously SAG (well, I was serious about the above experiment too) can you recommend a different way of introducing pleasant smells into the the system?
If you're looking for effect, why do you need to smell it?
Because I'm looking for the smell.
ozij wrote:Suppose we set up this lab experiment: Pur-Sleep, machine, filters various pressures, air analysis: what would you want us to look at in this analysis? which lab findings do would indicate - "keep away from that!!!"? which would mean: "OK if you're otherwise healthy" and which would mean "no problem"? There must be a better way of approaching this than either cats, or humans as lab rats... (hmmm. cats as lab rats... but you know what I mean... ). People published papers benchmarking CPAP machines - why not a paper (or 2 or 3) about the air the comes out of the mask when there are essential oils outside the machine?
The amount of variables is staggering. EO concentration, length of contact time, efficiency of system, use of humidification, which EO (some may have hundreds of compounds) and idiosyncracies.
You could start with a worst case scenario for all the variables, and just look at the amounts the come out of the machine.
I think it would be far more efficient to watch for the aforementioned symptoms or lab tests:

Code: Select all

1. Change in oximetry trend (mean reading during night, spot check during day). Baseline and follow-ups may be obtained from original PSGs, serial PSGs and/or self-monitoring.
2. Change in screening spirometry values.
3. Change in complete Pulmonary Function Testing (PFT) values, particularly diffusion.
4. Symptomatic change in pulmonary function, as in decreased ability of aerobic exercise or increased shortness of breath on exertion
and then go back, do some history and look for commonalities.
More efficient for the people who may have come down with lung disease by that time? That does not sound right to me.
BTW, a great quality source would be Nature's Gift.
You mean the site where they write:
Inhalation:
add 5 to 7 drops to a bowl of steaming hot water, put a 'towel tent' over the head to capture the steam. Close your eyes and inhale until water cools or until you stop smelling the oil. Repeat, if necessary, every four or five hours.
Microdiffusion:
Use a nebulizing diffuser that will break the oil into millions of micro-particles. In case of illness, inhale near the "mouth" of the nebulizer. Only four or five minutes worth should be sufficient, repeat every few hours.
Humidifier:
(cool mist). Add from 3 to 9 drops of your chosen EO to the water of the humidifier. Run overnight, or add the essential oils two or three times a day, if running continuously. Please note, the essential oils can conceivably damage a humidifier. I've never had this happen, but it is a slight risk. This is an effective method if using the essential oils with a sick child, since there is not risk of danger from hot water, etc.
(my emphasis)

And this:
First of all, it is important to bear in mind that Aromatherapy Certification in the United States, is meaningless. There is no official recognition by any state governing agency of certification.

Looks like those people you spoke to, who spoke to their mentors were pulling your leg...
SleepGuy wrote:This is probably because aromatic molecules are extremely small and would readily be absorbed by the lungs directly into the bloodstream, as Tisserand points out. This applies to all natural and artificual fragrances. The kinds of lung damage you're talking about involves substances that have much, much larger molecular sizes, big enough that they might actually become trapped in the lung, too large to be absorbed into the bloodstream.
This is why the Federal Drug Administration developed a list of essential oils that are "Generally Recognized as Safe" for human consumption. The list includes peppermint, lavender, lime, tangerine, orange, ylang ylang, vanilla, and the other essential oils used in PurSleep products. My understanding is that if they are safe for direct human consumption via ingestion they are safe for other forms of exposure, including inhalation since the molecules are readily absorbed into the blood stream just as they are readily absorbed into the bloodstream through digestion.
Thank you, Bret, that's what I meant when I asked for chemical and physical information. And thanks for the info about Tisserand - I rather doubt it's available anywhere in my vicinity - and that's an $80 book at Amazon I'll have to think about that.

Edit: I see you've created a separate thread, Bret. Good idea - lets continue the discussion there.

O.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023

User avatar
StillAnotherGuest
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:43 pm

How Much Is "Much"?

Post by StillAnotherGuest » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:30 am

SleepGuy wrote:Just a few thoughts since I am too tired to get into the deails tonight.

1. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a certified aromatherapist. Aromatherapy is not a practice recognized or licensed by any governmental entity. To the extent that "aromatherpists" make medical treatment claims, they are practicing medicine and should be required to be licensed for that purpose, consistent with the laws of all 50 states and the federal government. Therefore, "certified" aromatherapists are not much more than New Age Quacks IMO. Gary Young (aka Young Living) right here in my home state calls himself a "Natureopathic Doctor" or ND. One of his "certified" practitioners (and presumably MLM marketer) had the gall to post on this site a claim that putting certain YoungLiving essential oils on your feet every night for a week would actually cure sleep apnea. While there may well be a medical basis for some therapeutic claims on essential oils (such as Goel proved with lavender and sleep), there is virtually no proof of any kind showing therapeutic benefits with one exception: A smell that an individual finds to be pleasant will probably help that person relax and feel calm. The sense of smell directly connects to the limbic system and therefore can affect our emotions for good or bad. That's pretty much what science has actually proven about smell. Human responses to smell are immediate and emotional. So that pretty much sums it up: Pure Hedonism.

2. There is almost as much misinformation about essential oil safety as there is about their miraculous properties. If you believe the safety claims, almost any essential oil will cause spontaneous miscarriage so pregnant women should avoid them like the plague. It's modern Patent Medicine aka Snake Oil, miracle cure for almost anything known to humans. Having sifted through a large amounts of unfounded trivia, I concluded that the best recognized source of information about essential oil safety is a book by that title by Robert Tisserand. Feel free to check it out from the library and read it. One of my favorite examples from Tisserand is the fact that, apparently beliveing the claims about essential oil causing spontaneous miscarriages, in a number of cases pregnant women have ingested essential oils hoping to cause an abortion. It has yet to work in any case--not one time. It made the mother sick but no magic abortion effect.

3. I have searched Tisserand extensively and found not a single reference to any questions about the questions SAG has raised and in particular the possibility of lung damage or function. This is probably because aromatic molecules are extremely small and would readily be absorbed by the lungs directly into the bloodstream, as Tisserand points out. This applies to all natural and artificual fragrances. The kinds of lung damage you're talking about involves substances that have much, much larger molecular sizes, big enough that they might actually become trapped in the lung, too large to be absorbed into the bloodstream. The maximum possible dose of essential oil that may end up in the bloodstream through inhalation would not be greater than the original dose dispensed, probably quite a bit less. A great many aromatherapy suppliers provide personal diffusion devices for people to use throughout the day or night around their immediate person, in their car, at the office. Room and office diffusers are also readily available as are incense burners and the like, together with a large variety of air freshener and cleaning products, all of which emit aromatic molecules into the air we breathe. Many aromatherapy books recommend the dispensing of essential oils right on the pillow or bedclothing. No one seems to be overly concerned about aromatic safety and lung damage in any of these applications.

4. To be sure, the fact that aromatic molecules may be absorbed directly into the bloodstream presents obvious toxicological questions, as would the absorption of any small molecule. Every time you smell a flower, strawberry shampoo, soap, lotion, bubblebath, or fabric softener, those little aromatic molecules are most likely going right into your bloodstream. For that matter, every time you drink soda pop, you are ingesting relatively large amounts of essential oils used to make the soda syrup (yes, soda pop "natural" flavors are essential oil based--lots of lime and citrus). Essential oils find their way into the food supply in surprising large amounts. Every pack of DoubleMint Gum is full of real peppermint essential oil. Big Red is packed with cinnamon leaf essential oil. When you chew this it ends up right in your lungs and in your bloodstream. Many, many products are packed with mint essential oil (or synthetically derived mint oil with basically the same molecules), from mouthwash to toothpaste, gum, breath mints, tic tacs, etc. This is why the Federal Drug Administration developed a list of essential oils that are "Generally Recognized as Safe" for human consumption. The list includes peppermint, lavender, lime, tangerine, orange, ylang ylang, vanilla, and the other essential oils used in PurSleep products. My understanding is that if they are safe for direct human consumption via ingestion they are safe for other forms of exposure, including inhalation since the molecules are readily absorbed into the blood stream just as they are readily absorbed into the bloodstream through digestion. At least that's how I read Tisserand.

In any event, if you are worried about lung damage and controlling the relevant variables, the inquiry should not be limited to essential oils. The concern would apply to any molecule that humans perceive to impart an odor (any aromatic molecule), whether natural or artificial. In order to control the variables test subjects would need to live in a plastic bubble for many months to get all of the aromatic molecules out of their systems. Body odor and flatulence would need to be immediately removed from the bubble so as not to impair the experiment. Unscented cleaning products only would be permitted, including deodorant. Only then could someone conduct a test to find out whether or not the PurSleep products caused lung damage.

That sounds a little too complicated to me. I prefer to stand by Tisserand's Essential Oil Safety and the FDA list of essentail oils that are "Generally Recognizes as Safe" for human consumption. I admit that I am not all that sophisticated and that I tend to be simple minded but I can't see how any aromatic molecule could cause lung damage. To my simple mind, anything that helps me use my CPAP is good. I would much rather live with the risk that my lungs will become completely plugged with tiny aromatic molecules than die from untreated apnea and/or one of its co-morbid conditions.
Boy, this post is RIPE wth great debate points that will turn this into TFOTBOTMOAT! Let me give you the Perfect Example of Too Much of a Good Thing:

Oxygen Toxicity

SAG
Image

Aromatherapy may help CPAP compliance. Lavender, Mandarin, Chamomile, and Sweet Marjoram aid in relaxation and sleep. Nature's Gift has these and a blend of all four called SleepEase.

SharkBait
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:41 pm
Location: Texas -- the ugly part... El Paso? No, not quite THAT ugly...

Re: A Canary In The Coal Mine?

Post by SharkBait » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:43 am

StillAnotherGuest wrote:Kristen Leigh Bell, a certified aromatherapist, author of Holistic Aromatherapy for Animals: A Comprehensive Guide to the Use of Essential Oils & Hydrosols with Animals, in an exchange on another forum:
Wow, never knew she was an author as well. Very impressive!

Image
Encore Pro 1.8.49; Encore Pro Analyzer 0.8.9 by James Skinner
SnuggleHose - Got the 8 foot and cut it down to 6, used the rest for mask hoses.
Memory Foam Pillow - Cut my own out of my Tempur-pedic pillow. (works great!)
Hose Mgmt - Velcro Tie Strap

Autopapdude
Posts: 615
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:49 am

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Autopapdude » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:46 pm

deleted for more informative post below
Last edited by Autopapdude on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Autopapdude
Posts: 615
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:49 am

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Autopapdude » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:54 pm

http://www.mmafightgirls.com/post/2592/ ... -included/

A legitimate use for vaseline when fighting, so as to put your opponent at a distinct disadvantage so that they can't get a good grip during a fight. This is also used by teenage girls in school when they are going to fight--the grease their faces with vaseline so as to prevent the opponent from getting a grip on one's face, and causing injury.

Cpap 2016

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Cpap 2016 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:57 am

This is a weird thread..

User avatar
LSAT
Posts: 13324
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:11 am
Location: SE Wisconsin

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by LSAT » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:41 am

Cpap 2016 wrote:This is a weird thread..
Why are you interested in a 10 year old post?

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32299
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:57 am

LSAT wrote:
Cpap 2016 wrote:This is a weird thread..
Why are you interested in a 10 year old post?
people that can't be bothered to create an account are stupid?

some threads are timeless?

take your pick.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34545
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nowhere special--this year in particular.

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by chunkyfrog » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:16 pm

The poster was not registered, and could not have voted.
The forum member who voted, reviving this ancient poll, probably has a fixation on Goofproof.
Cleavage, go figure!

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:23 pm

Ric wrote:
NightHawkeye wrote:Enjoy it. Life is good. The Vaseline threads are still funny as all get out. We could even call it the great Vaseline conspiracy of '06.
Bill,

EXCELLENT suggestion. It occurred to me, if this thread MUST continue (it probably will), it should be under a less misleading title. I was torn between "CONSPIRACY" and "HOAX". I think I can still change it (?)

(and plus it's an excuse to do a POLL, wooooooohooooo!)
Hey, Ric and NightHawkeye.........you guys still out there somewhere?
Are you still getting notifications when these threads get bumped?

Please feel free to poke yourselves into the forum from time to time and say "Hi".


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

User avatar
Ric
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:41 pm
Location: Left Coast

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Ric » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:57 pm

Hi Den !!! Thanks for the poke I still drop in about once every ten years, or when the Vaseline thread gets a hit. Miss you guys. Give my regards to Harikari Shimari.
He who dies with the most masks wins.

User avatar
Wulfman...
Posts: 6688
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:41 pm
Location: Nearest fishing spot

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by Wulfman... » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:16 pm

Ric wrote:Hi Den !!! Thanks for the poke I still drop in about once every ten years, or when the Vaseline thread gets a hit. Miss you guys. Give my regards to Harikari Shimari.
Man, it's so good to see you!!!
I haven't seen her (or heard from her) for many moons. One of the all-time great writers on the forum. I've saved some of her "classics".

Please don't stay away so long.

Edit to add:

search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=h ... mit=Search

One of my favorites:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3898&p=69862#p69862


Den

.
(5) REMstar Autos w/C-Flex & (6) REMstar Pro 2 CPAPs w/C-Flex - Pressure Setting = 14 cm.
"Passover" Humidification - ResMed Ultra Mirage FF - Encore Pro w/Card Reader & MyEncore software - Chiroflow pillow
User since 05/14/05

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 15131
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Great Vaseline™ Conspiracy of '06

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:54 pm

Wulfman... wrote:One of my favorites:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3898&p=69862#p69862
Thank you, Wulfman! What a delightful read. I love Harikarishimari's panache. It would have been nice to be here when she was active.