Just had my first follow-up, please help

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Pugsy
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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by Pugsy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:08 am

Yes, if the DME guy mentioned "machine will breathe for you" then that's the ASV model. I suspect that you likely need it. While I would love to blame all that ugly on leaks and the machine not being able to record things properly...my gut tells me that chances of it being only leaks are slim.

Yes, you could use the bathtub for checking for leaks in the hose. Might need 2 people It's hard enough for me to stretch out the 6 ft hose.
When done just do a final rinse with really hot water if you wish. That's all that is really needed. It's not like you will be soaking the hose in the bathtub anyway.

Did you ever have a sleep study where they used the mask and machine to find optimal pressure or did they send you home with the APAP to let the machine find the pressure?

Did your initial sleep study (diagnostic study without machine) mention any centrals? Do you have a copy of that report by chance? Was it done in a sleep lab or did they do a home study?

If they do decide to get you that ASV machine...they really should do an in lab titration with it to find the right pressures. It isn't nearly as simple as the apap machine is.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:29 am

Pugsy wrote:Yes, if the DME guy mentioned "machine will breathe for you" then that's the ASV model. I suspect that you likely need it. While I would love to blame all that ugly on leaks and the machine not being able to record things properly...my gut tells me that chances of it being only leaks are slim.

Yes, you could use the bathtub for checking for leaks in the hose. Might need 2 people It's hard enough for me to stretch out the 6 ft hose.
When done just do a final rinse with really hot water if you wish. That's all that is really needed. It's not like you will be soaking the hose in the bathtub anyway.
I was thinking of a post where someone described the actual cleaning of the hose. Fill sink with water, add soap, run hose through the water in sink to clean hose. Rinse, and done. So, I was thinking that if I were to check for leaks, I could clean the thing at the same time. That's why I was asking if I had to sanitize the tub first. If I were to just check for leaks, yes, I could enlist the help of my roommate, hold one end to the spout, he holds the other end, voila. If I try to clean it at the same time, I was thinking fill tub with water, add soap, fully submerge hose, pull it out with water in entire hose, check for leaks, rinse thoroughly, etc.
With that scenario in mind, would it matter if I scrubbed the tub first?


Did you ever have a sleep study where they used the mask and machine to find optimal pressure or did they send you home with the APAP to let the machine find the pressure?
I had a take-home sleep study done in June. Went in August to pick up the ResMed S9 APAP. They already had the settings set, and sent me home. Thye did nothing specific. I had a sleep study done when I was in the Air Force in 2002, but they conveniently lost those records, so not sure what that would've said.

Did your initial sleep study (diagnostic study without machine) mention any centrals? Do you have a copy of that report by chance? Was it done in a sleep lab or did they do a home study?
Not sure what it showed. The only info I was given was my AHI (49.6). I can try to get a copy of it, but the VA acts like TSA when it comes to our own records. I'll probably have to submit a FOIA request just to get it. And, I'm not even trying to be funny here, although it is kind of laughable.

If they do decide to get you that ASV machine...they really should do an in lab titration with it to find the right pressures. It isn't nearly as simple as the apap machine is.
He did mention something about a titration, but am unsure if that would be done with the ASV. When I was in his office, he listed so many possible scenarios that I don't really know what will happen after getting the ASV. It all kind of just ran together on my end. I have to go to Amarillo, TX for all of this, which is 2 hours away. Ge did say that if I had to have a titration, or any other sleep study for that matter, that they'd send me to a private clinic here in Lubbock, so that's good news.

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Last edited by digitalepiphany on Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:34 am

Almost forgot, thanks again to everyone for your help. This is very informative.

BTW, if anyone had to suggest a mask replacement for my Swift FX, what would it be?
I can't do full-face or nose masks because I sleep on my side too much and it wakes me up constantly with leaks. Plus, I wanna keep my beard.
Even with the amount of leaks I have now, I only wake up once per night, if at all, because of fitment leaks on the nasal pillows.
So, with that in mind, has anyone moved away from the Swift FX to another pillow?
I can't afford to try different masks on my own, but I also don't have to pay for the through the VA, so I can probably get away with trying a few.
I already tried getting the tappap, but it's not available through the VA.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by Pugsy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:49 am

I am one of those people who don't go to extraordinary measures to "disinfect" my hose. I don't see the need myself.
A quick hot water wash and rinse is all I have ever done and even that isn't done very often. You might not be comfortable with my lack of cleaning regiment.
I do think if I was going to be soaking the long hose that I would most likely just do it in the sink. It's much smaller area to clean ahead of time or just use a bit pot or something.

I don't think the leaks are from the Swift FX nasal pillows...I think they are from your open mouth...changing to another nasal pillow mask won't fix the open mouth problem..if that is what is going on here and why I suggested taping to be sure.

Do a little test...just do it while awake and watching TV so you know you have a seal that is good. Wear the mask and use the machine while awake watching TV or reading a book for about 45 minutes to an hour. Keep your mouth closed...then download that time and look at the leak line.
If there is still a big leak...look elsewhere (like the hose or connections)...if leak line is flat at zero where it should be then you have your answer...mouth opening leak. Chin strap might help...worth a try but with that much leak if it is mouth leak the chin strap most likely won't be able to keep the mouth shut well enough. Let's cross that bridge if we need to.

Regarding the home study...without knowing what was used we don't know if they even had the right equipment to tell central apneas from obstructive apneas. So we don't have any way to know for sure if you had centrals in the first place. Oh well, let's try to fix the leak and see if we still have them. If that is the case it doesn't really matter if you had them before or not...you have them now and the end result is still the ASV machine.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:16 am

My cleaning regimen is pretty poor too. I'll wipe off the pillows every few days, but that's about it.
I'll try the mask on right now for about 30 min and see what happens. I'd rather do that than deal with putting water through my hose.
I'll report back with that shortly.

Thanks.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:21 am

BTW, do you have a link to anything that will show me what taping is? I've heard of it, but don't really know what it entails.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:14 am

I did what you suggested.

The one hypopnea was when I pulled out and reseated the pillows. The large leak at about 10:40 was from messing with the pillows. I noticed that they seem to sit closer to my nostrils in the front, but are farther away in the back, if you can visualize that. If you can't, I can draw up a quick sketch in MS Paint for you. Basically, they're not sitting level with the base of my nose as I assume they should.

I'll try the chin strap tonight to see if that results in less leaks as well, but it could also be that, while sleeping, the pillows are leaking at the back side. Since I have a beard and mustache, perhaps that's why I don't notice it leaking there while asleep. Or, like you said, it could be mouth breathing. I breathe through my nose while awake, but it could be that. I'll post the chin strap report tomorrow.

Image

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:21 am

I went ahead a drew a picture anyway. Couldn't help myself.
This doesn't seem to be anything that I can fix on my own. It seems to me that it's just the way it's made.
Is there anything I can do about this?
Image

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by Pugsy » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:21 pm

There's a video for fitting the pillows.
http://www.cpaplibrary.com/nasal-pillows.html
Make sure you don't have it upside down. If you feel it leaking around the nostril while awake something isn't right. Either wrong size, not tight enough or maybe upside down...unless you have long slotted nostril opening as opposed to more of an ovoid shape.
I have seen on guy with nostrils so long and slotted even the large sizes of the nasal pillows didn't fill the void.
The Pilairo nasal pillow might work for people with long slotted nares...at least a little better than the other pillows.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by kaiasgram » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:30 pm

digitalepiphany wrote:BTW, do you have a link to anything that will show me what taping is? I've heard of it, but don't really know what it entails.
There are many discussions about taping here on the forum. Here are two of them:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91445&p=842497&hili ... re#p842497

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94186&p=870289&hili ... ng#p870289

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by hueyville » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:45 pm

Except for leaks my graphs with +100 AHI per night swing was normal. ~1 month into ASV with a well fit mask and se eral sleep studies have my average at 13 now. Doc for most part throws oit half the data or more we seem to obsese over, look at mh hypopneas and said all is well. He did prescribe a sleeping wedge which is on the way and said worse thing we can do is obsese about our sleep as it can mess us up as much as anything. While he says a knowedgable patient that works with him is great, if we are looking at our data everyday, reading about apnea daily then we might try and carry our worries to bed. Now mh orders are to wait on the wedge, check my data once a week, sleep and see him in six weeks. I believe it is sound advise.
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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Pugsy wrote:There's a video for fitting the pillows.
http://www.cpaplibrary.com/nasal-pillows.html
Make sure you don't have it upside down. It's definitely not upside down.If you feel it leaking around the nostril while awake something isn't right. Either wrong sizeI'm using the large right now. I tried the medium for 2 nights when I first got it, but it leaked way too much. , not tight enough or maybe upside down...unless you have long slotted nostril opening I haven't looked at my nostrils lately, or ever for that matter.as opposed to more of an ovoid shape.
I have seen on guy with nostrils so long and slotted even the large sizes of the nasal pillows didn't fill the void.
The Pilairo nasal pillow might work for people with long slotted nares...at least a little better than the other pillows.
I probably shouldn't, but I'll go ahead and post a pic I just took of my nostrils. Not sure if they would be considered slotted or not. I also included a side shot so you can see the length of my nose. I don't think my nostrils are too big for the Swift FX, but what do I know? What say you?

Image
Image

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:53 pm

kaiasgram wrote:
digitalepiphany wrote:BTW, do you have a link to anything that will show me what taping is? I've heard of it, but don't really know what it entails.
There are many discussions about taping here on the forum. Here are two of them:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91445&p=842497&hili ... re#p842497

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94186&p=870289&hili ... ng#p870289

Thanks for the links. I'm reading them now.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by digitalepiphany » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:57 pm

hueyville wrote:Except for leaks my graphs with +100 AHI per night swing was normal. ~1 month into ASV with a well fit mask and se eral sleep studies have my average at 13 now. Doc for most part throws oit half the data or more we seem to obsese over, look at mh hypopneas and said all is well. He did prescribe a sleeping wedge which is on the way and said worse thing we can do is obsese about our sleep as it can mess us up as much as anything. While he says a knowedgable patient that works with him is great, if we are looking at our data everyday, reading about apnea daily then we might try and carry our worries to bed. Now mh orders are to wait on the wedge, check my data once a week, sleep and see him in six weeks. I believe it is sound advise.
I've been using CPAP since August, and other than the occasional download of the data and a cursory glance at my AHI, I don't really fret over it (the data) too much. But, since I just had my follow-up,I do need to figure out why I've seen no improvement. As soon as I hammer that out, I'll be good to go. Mainly, I only fret over how it's affected my life. Honestly, it feels like the last 10 have passed me by without me actually accomplishing anything. It's frustrating.

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Re: Just had my first follow-up, please help

Post by kaiasgram » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:21 pm

digitalepiphany wrote:
kaiasgram wrote:
digitalepiphany wrote:BTW, do you have a link to anything that will show me what taping is? I've heard of it, but don't really know what it entails.
There are many discussions about taping here on the forum. Here are two of them:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91445&p=842497&hili ... re#p842497

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94186&p=870289&hili ... ng#p870289

Thanks for the links. I'm reading them now.
You're welcome -- On seeing your photos, two things occur to me.

First, taping would be super challenging with a moustache and beard. But check out apneanderthal's tapeless solution: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94050&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... +chinstrap.

Second, I have a similar narrow slit-like shape to my nostrils. I ended up with the Aloha nasal pillow mask and a larger size pillow than I would have expected. The Aloha worked better than the Swift FX for the shape of my nostrils. I have a pretty medium-size nose and I started with size Medium pillows but discovered that the size Large worked best.

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